Sarcasm

Cyperium

I'm always me
Valued Senior Member
To my view sarcasm is increasing in society. Why is that? Could there be a new trend or something? Or am I wrong?

I feel that sarcasm is allways putting a bad face to truth in some way, thus putting this in the "Ethics, Morality, & Justice" forum.

If moderators think this is wrong, then move it to where you find it suitable.



If you can show me one example of sarcasm not putting a bad face on truth then please provide one.
 
Sarcasm is on the increase because people seem to be running out of decent responses.

In one's personal relations, sarcasm seems to be a device for managing the moment. For instance, there comes a point in discussing alcoholism with an alcoholic that we are moved to say, "Of course. How silly of me to worry in the first place." Rarely are people sincere in that moment, but when the factors of being drunk every day, keeping bottles at the bedside, and refusing to discuss the bar tab define attempts to get a grasp on the situation, there comes a point when you throw your hands up and say, "I see. How foolish of me to worry about it."

Now, whether I or anyone else have gone through enough motions to warrant our exasperation, frustration, or otherwise is its own question.

In this form, sarcasm is a "bad face" on truth because it reflects the truth weaponized. The truth, as such, is ineffective in and of itself, so it is sharpened and honed and laid across the neck with clear intent to slash away:

• "You're right. I'm sorry. I can't believe I was worried about you driving drunk, spending your family into a hole, being incapable of doing anything other than sleeping twelve hours a day and complaining for the other twelve. It was so foolish of me to worry."

There are other occasions, though, when sarcasm doesn't have that edge. If the bombs are falling over _______ (insert city here), one might say, "At least they get to be shocked and awed by the pretty lights before they die."

What strikes me however is that in the written form, people often take such lines seriously. It would not be unreasonable in Sciforums terms to expect at least one person to hold a poster in such a case to their cruelty.

Sarcasm in this sense is a bad face on truth because while it may reflect a true comparison, it is not sincerely clear communication, and in an age when sincerely clear communication is unwanted, it still doesn't make sense to simply go adding to the filth.

In the end, sarcasm reflects the sarcastic and their priorities.

I might say, "Yes, let's kill them all, shall we? Let's drop some bombs and blow some children to shreds and call it a good day in the War Against Terror."

Now who at Sciforums that has ever read more than about five of my war-related posts would come to believe I was genuinely advocating the killing of children?

Which brings to light the third bad face of sarcasm: It is unsympathetic to the illiterate.

We cannot expect our neighbors to understand our sarcasm. We have no basis for such an expectation of comprehension.

Sarcasm is one of those cases when people would reserve to themselves what they deny others. Thus we must watch what we say, because there's always at least one idiot out there waiting for a chance to give somebody--anybody--a headache by proving the declining state of reading comprehension and writing skills on the internet.

Spoken sarcasm is an interesting thing. One can encounter a very strange three-point response:

• Harsh sarcasm must necessarily be cruelly-intended
• Lighthearted sarcasm must necessarily be cruelly-intended
• No sarcasm indicates a lack of humor

I mean, I actually know people like this. Their whole purpose is to bitch about how oppressed they are because nobody around them has a sense of humor. Yet, if any of those folks show it ... they must necessarily be cruel.

Sarcasm doesn't put a bad face on the truth when everybody in a communicative circle is "in" on that truth. There are still places in the world in which I can say what I want and people are smart enough to figure out sarcasm and other forms of intended humor.

Sarcasm, like anything else, derives its value from its beholder.

If I said "Bush is the best American president ever," I would have a hard time convincing anyone I wasn't being sarcastic, except those who already believe it and have never absorbed the content of other political posts of mine.

It's in the eye and ear of the beholder.
 
I think that sarcasm is increasing because it is a common form of communication in the media. It is also quite funny. I don;t think it's a big deal. As metioned earlier, it is hard to show a sarcastic tone when typing, so sarcastic lines on forums can be taken seriously.

" It's in the eye and ear of the beholder. "

I agree.
 
tiassa said:
Sarcasm is on the increase because people seem to be running out of decent responses.

In one's personal relations, sarcasm seems to be a device for managing the moment. For instance, there comes a point in discussing alcoholism with an alcoholic that we are moved to say, "Of course. How silly of me to worry in the first place." Rarely are people sincere in that moment, but when the factors of being drunk every day, keeping bottles at the bedside, and refusing to discuss the bar tab define attempts to get a grasp on the situation, there comes a point when you throw your hands up and say, "I see. How foolish of me to worry about it."

Now, whether I or anyone else have gone through enough motions to warrant our exasperation, frustration, or otherwise is its own question.

In this form, sarcasm is a "bad face" on truth because it reflects the truth weaponized. The truth, as such, is ineffective in and of itself, so it is sharpened and honed and laid across the neck with clear intent to slash away:

• "You're right. I'm sorry. I can't believe I was worried about you driving drunk, spending your family into a hole, being incapable of doing anything other than sleeping twelve hours a day and complaining for the other twelve. It was so foolish of me to worry."

There are other occasions, though, when sarcasm doesn't have that edge. If the bombs are falling over _______ (insert city here), one might say, "At least they get to be shocked and awed by the pretty lights before they die."

What strikes me however is that in the written form, people often take such lines seriously. It would not be unreasonable in Sciforums terms to expect at least one person to hold a poster in such a case to their cruelty.

Sarcasm in this sense is a bad face on truth because while it may reflect a true comparison, it is not sincerely clear communication, and in an age when sincerely clear communication is unwanted, it still doesn't make sense to simply go adding to the filth.

In the end, sarcasm reflects the sarcastic and their priorities.

I might say, "Yes, let's kill them all, shall we? Let's drop some bombs and blow some children to shreds and call it a good day in the War Against Terror."

Now who at Sciforums that has ever read more than about five of my war-related posts would come to believe I was genuinely advocating the killing of children?

Which brings to light the third bad face of sarcasm: It is unsympathetic to the illiterate.

We cannot expect our neighbors to understand our sarcasm. We have no basis for such an expectation of comprehension.

Sarcasm is one of those cases when people would reserve to themselves what they deny others. Thus we must watch what we say, because there's always at least one idiot out there waiting for a chance to give somebody--anybody--a headache by proving the declining state of reading comprehension and writing skills on the internet.

Spoken sarcasm is an interesting thing. One can encounter a very strange three-point response:

• Harsh sarcasm must necessarily be cruelly-intended
• Lighthearted sarcasm must necessarily be cruelly-intended
• No sarcasm indicates a lack of humor

I mean, I actually know people like this. Their whole purpose is to bitch about how oppressed they are because nobody around them has a sense of humor. Yet, if any of those folks show it ... they must necessarily be cruel.

Sarcasm doesn't put a bad face on the truth when everybody in a communicative circle is "in" on that truth. There are still places in the world in which I can say what I want and people are smart enough to figure out sarcasm and other forms of intended humor.

Sarcasm, like anything else, derives its value from its beholder.

If I said "Bush is the best American president ever," I would have a hard time convincing anyone I wasn't being sarcastic, except those who already believe it and have never absorbed the content of other political posts of mine.

It's in the eye and ear of the beholder.
I agree with you completly.

Though I don't use sarcasm that often, but I seem to get into humerous situations anyway. Which means that "no sarcasm doesn't necessarily mean lack of humour", though "not understanding sarcasm might indicate lack of humour"...or just lack of understanding about what the sarcasm is about...

Though often sarcasm is said in a different "tone" and thus should be understandable. But there are situations where sarcasm could be used as a weapon, but only for those that think "either that or that".


Imagine this situation.

There are four persons sitting around a table.
Three of the persons know eachother well, and use sarcasm since they are confident that they all understand.

But one of the persons don't know.

Now these three could make a plot against the fourth person, or the fourth person could accidently reveal something, simply by not understanding them, and what they mean (all sarcasm doesn't come with a "made-up voice").

I've seen this too many times, where a person sits quitly not knowing what to say since he can't agree with what they are saying, and at the other hand don't want to reveal that he doesn't understand if they are joking or not.

I've been in similar situations myself, and also seen others be in the same situation.

Ok, this is the "bad side" of sarcasm. I do understand that sarcasm is a easy way of dealing with another persons ignorance, but people should realise that the person that constantly denies that he has a problem needs anything else than sarcasm, it just puts him deeper in misery since he probably do understand your point, but don't have the strength to pursue it.

Instead of using sarcasm at that point, I recommend (but this is just my personal oppionion) that you tell him how frustrated it makes you feel when he constantly denies his problem, and that you can't help him unless he faces it. If he still can't accept it, then you have to let it go for the moment and speak to him at another time - everything doesn't have to be made at once.

The truth CAN be said in a good way, having the effect of blowing away ALL counter-arguments. While sarcasm just makes him feel ridiculous, dumb and false.
 
I find sarcasm to usually be the lowest form of humour. It can be funny at times, but too often it's directed at someone or a group of people.
 
To my view sarcasm is increasing in society.

Pfft, everybody knows that! (rolls eyes)



(Just kidding, I couldn't resist!)


I agree with Tiassa, it's kind of a poor-man's debate method and easier than getting at the crux of an argument. It doesn't even require that you actually listen to the other point of view, you can just spout off and be done with it. It's easy.

Good thread.
 
ILikeSalt said:
I think that sarcasm is increasing because it is a common form of communication in the media. It is also quite funny. I don;t think it's a big deal. As metioned earlier, it is hard to show a sarcastic tone when typing, so sarcastic lines on forums can be taken seriously.

" It's in the eye and ear of the beholder. "

I agree.
Hmmm...when you said that I associate with "Friends", I like that show very much, and I realise now that they are sometimes very sarcastic in that show. But the sarcasm used in "Friends" I feel is obvious..and is made obvious..for everyone, not only by tone of voice but also by gesture. The sarcasm is also often made in a way that it shouldn't be misinterpreted by anyone.

Surely someone might still misinterpret it, but then they surely should understand when the others laugh and so on.

Anyway that isn't directed to anyone special, and I think that they try to not be sarcastic in anyway that conflicts with persons beliefs, gender, sexual orientation and those things (though that may not allways be the case, but from what I have seen).


Ok, so even if most humorous shows have alot of sarcasm in it, aint there another way of humour? Are we starting to forget? Are sarcasm even in this case a easy way out?
 
Alpha said:
I find sarcasm to usually be the lowest form of humour. It can be funny at times, but too often it's directed at someone or a group of people.


Ironically it requires you to be quick at feet. Sarcastic people can be witty on the spot...wait..or are those witty people...crap, I confused the two.
 
Cyperium said:
I feel that sarcasm is allways putting a bad face to truth in some way, thus putting this in the "Ethics, Morality, & Justice" forum.


Actually....I find that it is actually a great medium to bring up the truth without the bitter aftertase of blunt reality.

Sarcasm can sting but if done with finesse and charm it can be sweet pill of truth....who says you can't sugar coat the truth....it's just matters how much sugar you sprinkle on the truth.
 
sargentlard said:
Ironically it requires you to be quick at feet. Sarcastic people can be witty on the spot...wait..or are those witty people...crap, I confused the two.
Most techniques of humour can be quick at feet.

It's just that most people don't dare to say the first thing that comes to mind...

...and sarcasm can sound funny, allthough it's not, which can actually make people believe it is funny, if the person is quick with finding a way to continue the flow it will never be noticed that the sarcasm wasn't funny - since no one will think about it much longer.

Though, when written, sarcasm has to be funny cause people won't relate to it the same way they do when it's spoken.

I tell you, the actual fun arguments is just a very small part of sarcasm, most of it is timing and gesture. Maybe also a ability to understand what other people think about things (for example, some things are stupid, some are geeky, etc.). This doesn't mean that these things actually are stupid or geeky, sarcasm shows it's "flavour" by putting the flavour to it.

Sure many people can agree on the same thing, and often when they do they use sarcasm to show their understanding of it. If someone disagree with them, then they just use sarcasm to "prove" they are right. But often (more often than you think) they are just simply wrong.

Since sarcasm enhances the properties that show that (for example) something is geeky, it gives a bad face to truth.

Sarcasm is (tell me if I'm wrong) allways about exaggerating and twisting the truth (or exaggerating and twisting a supposed lie).

Sometimes I guess this could be good in certain situations, but only if the one you speak to understands that you are sarcastic.

Though I feel that straight truth is a rarity these days.
 
Sarcasm is (tell me if I'm wrong) allways about exaggerating and twisting the truth (or exaggerating and twisting a supposed lie).

More or less. I would add somehting on there about the reason--to imply, suggest, or demonstrate a degree of absurdity.
 
tiassa said:
More or less. I would add somehting on there about the reason--to imply, suggest, or demonstrate a degree of absurdity.
True, but often exaggerating only the part which he found absurd, while thinking nothing of things around that can change the perspective of the whole thing - and can in fact also make the thing that seemed absurd take on a natural tone.
 
Cyperium said:
To my view sarcasm is increasing in society. Why is that? Could there be a new trend or something? Or am I wrong?

I feel that sarcasm is allways putting a bad face to truth in some way, thus putting this in the "Ethics, Morality, & Justice" forum.

If moderators think this is wrong, then move it to where you find it suitable.



If you can show me one example of sarcasm not putting a bad face on truth then please provide one.

goto, the religion forum, and read hell for nonbelievers, this is sarcasm, that not putting a bad face on things.
 
audible said:
goto, the religion forum, and read hell for nonbelievers, this is sarcasm, that not putting a bad face on things.
I don't know who will go to hell and who will not.

God can't pass a faulty judgement. Those that go to hell, have deserved it. Otherwise they wouldn't go there. I don't know the insides of Ayn Rand or any other of the people mentioned. I just know that they had various ideas. This doesn't mean that they aren't sinners. There is alot of freedom with God, and He cannot let people that do evil get in the way of that freedom.

People do disgusting things, just because they seem good at the outside doesn't at all suggest that they can't be evil.

God knows each persons innermost secrets. His judgement will be fair, this we can trust on.

We have learned from childhood that Justice will prevail.
 
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