Santa vs. God

[Nebula]

Before reading this post, read Saint Trick.

Can someone tell me how the belief in Santa is different from the belief in the Christian God? To me, an ex-Christian, I see no difference between how the belief are formulated and how/why they are defended. Allow me to elaborate:

But Wendy's younger brother, Victor, is still a believer. "Wendy fakes it a bit for Victor's sake, but he seems to know that she doesn't really believe in Santa," Moniuk explains. "He keeps trying to convince her. He'll say that he heard reindeer hooves on the roof Christmas Eve, or point out the gifts he's gotten from Santa." Moniuk says she thinks Santa is important to Victor. "He wants to believe.

Here is the "evidence" for the existence of Santa. Since Victor "wants to believe" in Santa, he is obviously going to find ways to defend/justify his belief. Perhaps he really did hear something on the roof, but it was his desire for proof that lead him to conclude that the sound on the roof must have been Santa. Had he not really cared about Santa's existence, he would have probably said "hmm, I hear something on the roof, I wonder what it could be. Here are some possible explanations." But no, his belief in Santa is so strong that he accepts, without question, that the noise must have been Santa, and therefore no other possible explanation is satisfactory/necessary. I trust you see what I'm getting at here. Basically all you need to do is replace the words "Santa" with "God" and "Victor" with "theists."

Last year, when Wendy was eight, she said to her mother, "It just can't be done, Mom. Santa doesn't make sense - it wouldn't be possible for him to deliver all those presents."

When one looks at the consequences of such an extraordinary belief (Santa or God), one can see that perhaps the original claim is not plausible. However, we tend to ignore the consequences of beliefs that provide us with the quickest & easiest answer to a question.

There is no way Santa is capable of the feats that he is characterized by, therefore, Santa's existence "wouldn't be possible." Likewise, contradictions/inconsistencies found in Christian doctrine lead us to believe that perhaps the claim that God exists is false. However, some say that God is beyond our comprehension, that he finds a way. Then are we justified in saying that Santa can find a way? We can't find anyway to explain how Santa could get his job done, so we conclude that he doesn't exist. Yet theists claim that even though we can't understand God, he must exist. My question is how are you justified in concluding this?

Maybe theists don't want to conclude otherwise, for the same reasons kids don't want to believe Santa doesn't exist:

"Wendy was a little annoyed that she had been tricked all these years,"

"He wants to believe. We were at a party where another child said that the tooth fairy wasn't real, and I could see how worried Victor was. He was almost in a crisis over it - if my parents were lying about the tooth fairy, what else could they be lying about?"

To everyone's surprise, she was furious with my parents for deceiving her

Kids don't want to face the reality that Santa doesn't exist, simply because it makes them unhappy. Is it possible that this same fear of unhappiness is what prevents theists from admitting, or even seriously considering, that God may not exist?

...it can be hard to give up that little piece of Christmas magic.

Exactly. Only instead of giving up a trivial belief that will have no major impact on a person's life (giving up the belief in Santa), giving up the belief in God will have enormous everyday implications, shaking the very foundation of your life. This is understandably why a lot of theists will excert so much effort defending their beliefs rather than looking objectively at them. Any theist who is not prepared to possibly have all their beliefs dismantled is not ready to debate about God. Just to be fair, I should point out that any atheist who is not prepared to possibly have to accept the conclusion that God exists is similarily unprepared to debate over God's existence.

When I had my own children, I thought back to my sister's intense reaction and decided that I would tell my kids the truth, right from the start. Yes, we talked about Santa at Christmas time but I made it clear that this was just a story; we were just pretending that St. Nick came to our home to give us presents. As they got older, I talked to my kids about how each of us could be Santa when we gave something to another person - and how the man in the red suit is just a symbol for this spirit of giving.

This, I think, is a more acceptable line of thought: no deceiving, no extraordinary claims. For these kids, the true excitement of Christmas is still present, but the "supernatural" component serves as an allegory rather than as a literal truth. It is only the literal interpretation regarding Santa that seems absurd and is false. Likewise, not believing in God does not take away from the holiness of life, it doesn't necessarily make it anything less. An atheist can love life just as much as a theist can. And while the literal interpretation of Christianity may not be true, the teachings can serve as somewhat useful allegories that aid in finding personal meaning to life. Yet these allegories are not indicators of absolute truth.

Just what I thought when I started reading the article .

BTW, don't feel that I'm advocating atheism, I'm just challenging theism . Let's try and keep your ideas about how "Godless" I am out of this, and consider the presented material exclusively.

Lastly, I wish everyone a Merry Xmas! :m:
(That's supposed to look like a Christmas Tree!)

 

[Jenyar]

Nebula,

Good argument. But Santa is a myth that fades with age, Jesus is a reality that becomes more important with age. Rather stop celebrating Christmas altogether. It is supposed to celebrate the birth of a Saviour, a gift to us from God, to whom our gifts are due since our salvation was given to us and the price paid for us.

A great part of history has been a battle between the One God and all childish gods and myths. Christians don't base their belief in God on stories, or even on the Bible in isolation. The Bible was compiled when it became necessary to distinguish myth from truth. It crystallised after Jesus' resurrection.

"Christmas magic" is a myth. The easter rabbit is a myth. If you don't recognise the name, you will not recognise the person. If you don't recognise what Christmas is about, its meaning is as dead as Santa himself.

1 Cor.15: 3If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

You celebrate Christmas and you celebrate life. But what you are really celebrating is you mortality and death. That is what you truly believe in and that is all you have evidence of. You stare yourself blind at the death of Santa when you should be seeing life in Christ.

I'm not calling you or anyone Godless. I want to change the perspective from which we look at your example.

1 Cor. 15: 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
___ 55"Where, O death, is your victory?
_______Where, O death, is your sting?" 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is why Christians should not give up on Christ, because that is giving up on hope and life itself. It is easy to dismiss something that makes no difference, as you said. But what if it does make all the difference? We are not children anymore. It is much harder to believe and much harder to give up on belief, so we argue this way and that. Until death, when the decision is made final.

58Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

 

[EvilPoet]

St. Nicholas

The Real Santa Claus

 

[Davearchy]

Is it just me, or does anyone see that the same letters are used for Santa as those for Satan...hmm, is it a coincidence that Santa is dressed in a very dark red jacket and pants?

 

[Neville]

I think Snata and God are very different! While i think it is right to make a childs life full of magic and wonder it is different to an adults. An adult can look and think about things reasonably. A theist does not neccesarily not think about things or reason with their-self (although it is true that some ned flanderish characters do!).

This is understandably why a lot of theists will excert so much effort defending their beliefs rather than looking objectively at them

Objectivity takes the soul out of humanity (as does science). To live life through pure reason alone is to live life as a robot. Humans have more than pure reason!! We have emotions, feeling and it is important to be balanced and a bit of thought combined with faith. People who have no faith in God cannot be helped by God! If you are under God then he can reach you however if you live outside of God then how can he help you!??
I think it is important to note that the calendar as we know it was changed by the Druids (i believe) to try to hide Christianity. But it still prevails because of faith. Today most people have faith only in themselves and in humanity (science: the belief that man can discover all truths and harness such things) but humanity did not create the world in which we live and never could. Besides when humanity does gain power it mususes it. This is because the design of the brain means that we can never be God because we do not have enough understanding.

 

[Davearchy]

Ah, and yet another reason Santa must really be a depiction of Satan: he knows where all the bad people live okay, i'm done now