Sad milestone, American victims of Islamic terrorists reach 3,000!

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Buffalo Roam said:
Genji, Baron walked the walk, he knows far more than you about death, and the loss of troops, he has carried the body bags of his buddies and turned them over to people like me to take back to graves registration, we know the sadness of empty bunks and missing buddies at the mess table, and the two faces of people who use the deaths of our friends and buddies for political purposes.
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Amazing then that life is so cheap to you two isn't it? Was having Saddam's head on a platter worth 3k American lives wasted ON PURPOSE? Not by accidents or heart disease but deliberately killed for Saddam's head. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, you know, the ones we were there to...save. I walked the fuckin walk alright. I'm paying for the war on Iraq. My opinion is worth just as much as Jethro's at the local honkytonk.
 
spidergoat said:
WWII was a good cause, therefore there is no comparison.
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It wouldn't seem that way to many people in the US at the time! From 1939 until December 1941, the congress nor the people would give Roosevelt the right to go to war in Europe against Germany.

If one thinks about it for just a moment, you, Spider, would have been one of those people!

Baron Max
 
Genji said:
Amazing then that life is so cheap to you two isn't it?
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Look around the world, Genji, .....life IS cheap ...and it always has been. Too many people make big deals about deaths in the Iraq War, yet ignore completely the unnecessary deaths due to drunk driving, murder, assault, rape, and accidents of all kinds that happen daily. Life is cheap ...except where it serves some political purpose like "proving" that the war is bad, etc. Shame on y'all.

Genji said:
Was having Saddam's head on a platter worth 3k American lives....
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Yes! And every one of those dead soldiers and marines would have said so themselves!

Genji said:
My opinion is worth just as much as Jethro's at the local honkytonk.
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No it ain't! Jethro is a nice guy ...you I ain't so damned sure about.

Baron Max
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16442767/

So you have gathered all the information that all service members killed in Iraq believe it was worth the cost to topple and murder Saddam Hussein? I assume all of their family and friends feel the same? How 'bout the 300,000 plus dead Iraqi's and their family & friends? Destroying their country was also worth it to defeat and murder Saddam? Odd that the Party of God (GOP) war supporters didn't convince the rest of America their war was worth it. Budget busting adventurism isn't in the conservative playbook.
 
Picture said:
Dummy-dubya Bush seems "unshaken".
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approximate numbers of overall deaths in wwII was 50,000,000. Soviet Union, 20,000,000 casualties civilian and military. China, 3,000,000- 15,000,000- 3,000 is a small number, although 1 casualty seems to be 1 too many..... I am no longer a supporter of ole W.... he has lost all of my respect, republican or not.
 
Gengi

Amazing then that life is so cheap to you two isn't it?
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No again your wrong, were understand just how valuable the life of our friends are, and were, just because there are places around the world were life in cheep, doesn't mean we don't understand it's value, How cheep was life under Saddam and his Sons in Iraq? Saddam had a fair trial in the Iraqi Courts, his punishment was condoned under the Shari' Law's, and Blessed by the Koran, it was far more of a trial than hundred of thousands of the victims of Saddam's regime ever received, and the hanging was carried out with more dignity than throwing some one you suspect of being disloyal to the dogs to be eaten.

Gengi, here is a site that should interest you, it is copy's of punishment on video, of Iraqi's taken by Saddams thugs to prove to Saddam that they were doing their job's for him.

http://fdd.typepad.com/fdd/2006/01/alert_saddams_c.html
 
Buffalo Roam said:
Gengi



No again your wrong, were understand just how valuable the life of our friends are, and were, just because there are places around the world were life in cheep, doesn't mean we don't understand it's value, How cheep was life under Saddam and his Sons in Iraq? Saddam had a fair trial in the Iraqi Courts, his punishment was condoned under the Shari' Law's, and Blessed by the Koran, it was far more of a trial than hundred of thousands of the victims of Saddam's regime ever received, and the hanging was carried out with more dignity than throwing some one you suspect of being disloyal to the dogs to be eaten.

Gengi, here is a site that should interest you, it is copy's of punishment on video, of Iraqi's taken by Saddams thugs to prove to Saddam that they were doing their job's for him.

http://fdd.typepad.com/fdd/2006/01/alert_saddams_c.html
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I'm not a Hussein loyalist. He had Iraqi Communist Party members murdered, literally dragged out of government cabinet meetings and shot like dogs. Their families suffered similar fates. I just do not believe he was Ever a threat to US security or US interests. He had no connection to 9/11, never attacked the US or American citizens yet he was tried by a puppet regime and handed to government death squads. I'm not sure how this is an example of democracy. I'm pleased we don't yet have a system like that here. Wasn't Hussein's regime similar?
I also do not believe the sacrifice was worth all of the death and destruction it has wrought on Iraq and the US. Not to mention the astronomical cost as it spirals upward along with the death toll.
If Americans were allowed to vote on spending close to a trillion dollars and killing 3k of our own soldiers to topple one dictator (who likely will be replaced by a militant fundamentalist Muslim sectarian cleric) I doubt very much if we ever would have been there at all.
Anyone that is high fiveing and feeling vindicated about Saddam's head being on GW's platter is a fool. This war on Iraq will prove to be the single biggest debacle and criminal act ever perpetrated by the USA and it's people.
 
Genji said:
I'm not a Hussein loyalist. He had Iraqi Communist Party members murdered, literally dragged out of government cabinet meetings and shot like dogs. Their families suffered similar fates. I just do not believe he was Ever a threat to US security or US interests. He had no connection to 9/11, never attacked the US or American citizens yet he was tried by a puppet regime and handed to government death squads. I'm not sure how this is an example of democracy. I'm pleased we don't yet have a system like that here. Wasn't Hussein's regime similar?
I also do not believe the sacrifice was worth all of the death and destruction it has wrought on Iraq and the US. Not to mention the astronomical cost as it spirals upward along with the death toll.
If Americans were allowed to vote on spending close to a trillion dollars and killing 3k of our own soldiers to topple one dictator (who likely will be replaced by a militant fundamentalist Muslim sectarian cleric) I doubt very much if we ever would have been there at all.
Anyone that is high fiveing and feeling vindicated about Saddam's head being on GW's platter is a fool. This war on Iraq will prove to be the single biggest debacle and criminal act ever perpetrated by the USA and it's people.
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The sad part in all this is that if the US will support a majority regime (Shias), Saudi Arabia will fund Sunni insurgents to offset Iranian influence at its border- they are already building walls there. If its a minority regime, Iran will help the majority ethnic group. The US has single handedly written the death warrant of all the Iraqi people, unless it gets another Saddam, who will be against both Saudi Arabia and Iran and will have the will to suppress any opposition, because he wants a secular country. So what does this war achieve for Iraq besides mass murder of innocents?
 
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samcdkey said:
The sad part in all this is that if the US will support a majority regime (Shias), Saudi Arabia will fund Sunni insurgents to offset Iranian influence at its border- they are already building walls there. If its a minority regime, Iran will help the majority ethnic group. The US has single handedly written the death warrant of all the Iraqi people, unless it get another Saddam, who will be against both Saudi Arabia and Iran, because he wants a secular country. So what does this war achieve for Iraq besides mass murder of innocents?
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Very true. The arrogance and ignorance of the Bush adminstration has created a violent and costly black hole that generations of people will have to pay for. They really thought they could replace their govt. with a puppet and make a fortune plundering their oil! Disguising this expensive adventure as a national security matter.
Now it will evolve into a national security matter.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
But you would only know history the history from the German's NAZI point of view, so you would respond from that perspective. Yes fighting them would have been a good thing but you would have never known it.
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Why not?

Most historians believed and acknowledged that the Soviets could've taken on the Germans on their own after Stalingrad. Of course, that would've meant that Europe would've been Communist, but who knows? America might've taken over all of Eastern Asia (at least all the former Japanese-occupied areas).

We all know that Germany's best forces were sent to fight on the Eastern Front, because the Soviets were a greater threat to the Germans than Britain/USA/Canada. We ended up fighting what was leftover on the Western Front, but even then, we struggled.

Luckily, the US was a lot LOT more successful against Japan, which I think was a brilliantly masterminded strategy (except for the actions of Admiral Halsey).
 
Gengi
Was the cost of getting rid of Hitler worth It? You just don't seem to want to admit that Saddam was part of the Terrorist Cabal, and that he supported, gave sanctuary, to terrorist, and was working to rebuild his Military, and WMD, and that during his time as Dictator of Iraq the violence was hidden because it was his people doing the violence, on the surface yes Iraq look peaceable, and well ordered, but just look at the personal tape's that Saddam kept of the beatings and torture and executions by his Fayadeen Saddam, Iraq wasn't at peace when we invaded, and the Blood Code that these people live by being carried out by the Shia' for all the atrocities that Saddam and his Sunni henchmen carried out.
 
terryoh, I must humbly disagree with your premises that the Soviets could have taken Hitler on alone, If Hitler had finished the job on Britain, before he started on the Soviet Union he would have had 12 to 20 more divisions available, and the North Atlantic would have been a German Pond, which would have meant that here would have been very little supplies reaching Russia from the Allies, as we would have to have shipped them directly from the U.S. across a ocean controlled by Hitler's U-Boats, and the battle of Stalingrad would have had a different out come, the biggest thing that we did to help the Russians was with the trucks and railroad equipment, for transportation of supplies and troops we sent them, they didn't have the ability at the time to move the troops needed with out them, and they never would have gotten the Siberian divisions to their western front in time to have been any use.
 
How people fool themselves, rather than face the truth and consequences of their folly:

Many Iraqis think conditions have gotten so bad in their country, they'd like to see Saddam Hussein back in power, according to some of the seven young Iraqi men who had a candid discussion with The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith.

All are college-educated and speak English.

"When the Americans started this whole war issue," said one, who will be referred to as person No. 1, "we started to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and we walked toward it. But when the war happened, that light was the American train coming the other way that ran us over."
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/24/earlyshow/main1649689.shtml


Saddam Better for Women
Sanjay Suri

LONDON, Mar 29 (IPS) - Women were far better off under former Iraq dictator Saddam Hussein, a women's group has found after an extensive survey in Iraq.

''Under the previous dictator regime, the basic rights for women were enshrined in the constitution,'' Houzan Mahmoud from the Organisation of Women's Freedom in Iraq told IPS in an interview. The group is a sister organization of MADRE, an international women's rights group.

Under Saddam, she said, ''women could go out to work, university and get married or divorced in civil courts. But at the moment women have lost almost all their rights and are being pushed back into the corner of their house.''

The recent constitution which was written under the U.S. government's supervision is ''very backward and anti-women,'' Mahmoud said. ''They make Islam the source for law making, and the main official religion of the country. This in itself means Islamic Sharia law and according to this women will be considered second-class citizens and will have no power in deciding over their lives.''
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http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32693

The former U.N. human rights chief for Iraq said abuses are as bad now as they were under Saddam Hussein. Extrajudicial killings and torture are soaring, and morgue workers are being threatened by both government-backed militiamen and insurgents not to properly investigate deaths, he told AP in Sydney, Australia.

"Under Saddam, if you agreed to forgo your basic right to freedom of expression and thought, you were physically more or less OK," said John Pace, who last month left his post as director of the human rights office at the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq. "But now, no. Here, you have a primitive, chaotic situation where anybody can do anything they want to anyone."
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Of course the US cannot understand what the fuss is about.
In 2004 the US averaged 44 murders a day.
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http://sweetness-light.com/archive/ap-still-insists-on-civil-war-in-iraq

Former UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix on Wednesday described the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq as a "pure failure" that had left the country worse off than under the dictatorial rule of Saddam Hussein.
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http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1025-01.htm

Christians were better off under bad Saddam, one-time U.S. ally.

According to Simon Calwell of The Times, “in the Shia-dominated south of the country…[a]ll women, including Christians---who under Saddam could wear the latest fashions and make-up, and go to work---are under pressure to wear the hijab.” Churches have been bombed by Islamists, priests have been abducted for ransom, liquor shops owned by Christians have been targeted. Baathist Iraq was a basically secular state.
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Gays were better off under bad Saddam, one-time U.S. ally.

According to Ali Hili, a gay Iraqi man recently interviewed by Amy Goodman on MPR’s Democracy Now! Program, “Iraq, at the time of Saddam, was -- I mean, I’m talking about as a gay Iraqi -- it was not as bad as we can see now... There [were] no homophobic attitudes toward gay and lesbians. Most of them [were] welcomed in the community and the society… It’s a very dark age for gays and lesbians and transsexuals and bisexuals in Iraq right now. And the fact that Iraq has been shifted from a secular state into a religious state was completely, completely horrific. We were very modern. We were very, very Western culturalized -- Iraq -- comparing to the rest of the Middle East.
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Intellectuals were better off under bad Saddam, one-time U.S. ally.

The Times Higher Education Supplement noted in September 2004 “a widespread feeling among the Iraqi academics that they are witnessing a deliberate attempt to destroy intellectual life in Iraq.” According to the Monitoring Net for Human Rights in Iraq, over 1,000 Iraqi academics and scientists had been shot to death between the beginning of the U.S.-led invasion and late 2005.
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http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Mar06/Leupp31.htm

During a BBC interview on Monday, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said that the average Iraqi was better off under Saddam Hussein's regime than now. Under Saddam, "they had their streets, they could go out, their kids could go to school," according to Annan.

Annan also called the present situation "much worse" than the last civil war in Lebanon. Secretary General Annan joined the ranks of a growing list of critics of the Iraq war who also say life was better under Saddam.
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http://cnnexposed.com/story.php?story=27

Increasing numbers of children in Iraq do not have enough food to eat and more than a quarter are chronically undernourished, a UN report says.

Malnutrition rates in children under five have almost doubled since the US-led intervention - to nearly 8% by the end of last year, it says.

The report was prepared for the annual meeting of the UN Human Rights Commission in Geneva.

UN specialist on hunger Jean Ziegler, who prepared the report, blames the worsening situation in Iraq on the war led by coalition forces.

He was addressing a meeting of the 53-nation commission, the top UN rights watchdog, which is halfway through its annual six-week session.

When Saddam Hussein was overthrown, about 4% of Iraqi children under five were going hungry; now that figure has almost doubled to 8%, his report says.

Governments must recognise their extra-territorial obligations towards the right to food and should not do anything that might undermine access to it of people living outside their borders, it says.

That point is aimed clearly at the US, but Washington, which has sent a large delegation to the Human Rights Commission, declined to respond to the charges, says the BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Geneva.
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http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/10017

Must say, it is an achievement when a genocidal dictator becomes a fond memory as compared to "democracy".
 
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Its also incredibly ironic that the "insurgents" and "militants" that the US is fighting in Iraq today are the same "victims" that were "suppressed" by Saddam.
 
Once again if 500,000 people are dying each year from smoking (and we are soooo concerned about Americans dying) then where are all the protests?

1,000 deaths a year out of 150,000 troops (in a war which is incredible...) is a lower percentage than those who smoke and die from it. So once again where are all the protests?

We had more soldiers die on the road leading to our base than in Iraq. Maybe Cindy should have had a protest concerning the road? I mean if all she REALLY cares about is the lives of Soldiers she would be protesting soldiers drinking, soldiers smoking, vehicle safety, road safety, and demanding that tanks have seat belts! 3,000 deaths is just some figure Anti-war head in the sand pacifists use to justify their cause.

She would do more good for society sending care packages to the troops overseas.
 
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