Resuscitate DNR criminals?

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zanket

Human
Valued Senior Member
Should a DNR (do not resuscitate) order of those serving time for a serious crime be honored? Or should they be resuscitated regardless to serve as much of their sentence as possible?

If you think no, would you make an exception if the near-death situation were the result of a suicide attempt?

If you think yes, then what about suspects too? Like those on trial, accused of doing a serious crime.
 
zanket said:
Should a DNR (do not resuscitate) order of those serving time for a serious crime be honored? Or should they be resuscitated regardless to serve as much of their sentence as possible?

If you think no, would you make an exception if the near-death situation were the result of a suicide attempt?

If you think yes, then what about suspects too? Like those on trial, accused of doing a serious crime.
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Is it a legal document? If so, doesn't that answer your question?
 
What would be the point? If they are gonna die anyway and they initiated a DNR? I'm pragmatic, lets save ourselves the cost of housing and feeding them.
 
That's what I'm looking for, thanks.

What about a suicide attempt? If a convict were found hanging in their cell and alive, they'd be taken down immediately, DNR or not (given current procedures). If there was a DNR in that case, would you support leaving them hanging, even though they might survive if just taken down? Or would you support leaving them hanging DNR or not?

I'm not really going anywhere with this. Just exploring opinions.
 
Hmm I don't think a suicide would qualify for a DNR; its inherently illegal and personally I'd be queasy about leaving anyone hanging if he could be cut down. After all he may have changed his mind about dying after feeling the rope around his neck. I'm afraid I'd cut him down.
 
So far our opinions match. If you cut him down and then he would would die unless you resuscitated him, but he has a DNR, would you resuscitate him?
 
The problem with a suicide is that this is an avenue that is rife for abuse.

"He hung himself," they'd say and snigger behind their backs about how they got revenge on that dirty chi-mo.
 
I am opposed to capital punishment except for heinous criminals who have zero chance of reforming, i.e. child molesters, most rapists, and terrorists including serial killers. Still, I would not disrespect the DNR order of a prisoner just as a way of punishing him. If he wants to die I don't see any social benefit in keeping him alive.

I do believe that free people must be free to make the decision to end their lives. That's a tough call because we owe it to each other to make sure we're not just temporarily depressed by bad luck or under the influence of a chemical or a wacky philosophy. But in general DNR orders should be honored. I would certainly want mine to be. That includes criminals.

We have a strong social instinct to protect each other, so if we catch someone in the act of committing suicide we simply will intervene. It would go against human nature to expect us to stop, there's no point in trying to legislate that. Even prisoners. I've got no problem with them killing themselves as a more pleasant alternative to years in the joint, but I don't know if I'm cold-hearted enough to actually watch one do it.
 
I don't think anybody should be denied a DNR because it is inhuman and an act of violence against the person. If the prisoner can live, then they should be kept alive to live out their life in misery in their cell.
 
I guess a question arises: What other contracts remain valid while in jail? Marriage, certainly. But if a pro athlete in the U.S. actually gets sent for, say, drugs, does the team actually have to invoke a clause to nullify the contract, or does it evaporate upon conviction?

As to suicides, a strange question to read from me: Why do the criminals get more rights than law-abiding citizens? Suicide is, in the United States, effectively or actually--depending on jurisdiction--illegal.

My moral interpretation of the question is a bit simpler: respect existing DNR orders according to circumstance. A brain tumor? DNR. A beating? Well, at least get the perpetrator for the assault. Allowing the DNR to take place gives a defense attorney an out for his client, especially if that defendant is an agent of the correctional system. But still, life is life; I oppose the death penalty; my stance re: abortion amounts, in a relevant sense, to "once you're here, you're here", so a DNR order should be respected inasmuch as it would be respected should the person not be a convicted criminal.
 
Sgal said:
I don't think anybody should be denied a DNR because it is inhuman and an act of violence against the person. If the prisoner can live, then they should be kept alive to live out their life in misery in their cell.
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I think you are a little confused about what a DNR is
 
The criminal status of a person does not, and should not in my opinion, affect their right to have a DNR order followed.

Regarding suicide, I could only find legal positions of a few states. Those I could find online were consistent: a DNR order should be ignored if a case appears to be attempted suicide or a victim of violence.

California - "In the Emergency Room, "No Code" or "DNR" orders are not considered effective when a patient is brought in who has apparently attempted suicide."

Washington - "Begin resuscitation when it is determined:
  1. No valid DNR order exists.
  2. In your medical judgment, your patient has attempted suicide or is a victim of a violence"

Minnesota - Interesting case:
Wracked by months of intractable facial pain, given little hope by her doctors, the elderly woman had written a note to her family telling them that she loved them and then had taken too many pills. Over many years and in numerous conversations, she had made it clear that she never wanted to be resuscitated. But when her daughter found her unconscious and barely breathing, the grimness of impending death was overwhelming and she called 911. Paramedic and ER triage worked smoothly, and the patient was intubated and stabilized. “But she didn’t want this,” the daughter said.

“DNR/DNI doesn’t pertain to suicide attempts,” was the retort. When I came to the hospital, the patient was barely awake, had been extubated but was unstable, and her care team asked, What if she arrests? Do we honor her DNR/DNI? Or is she still a “full code” because she is still a suicide attempt?​
 
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There are some interesting looking articles on PubMed (also this one) about the applicability of DNRs in some situations.

For instance:
Journal of Emergency Medicine 1998 Sep-Oct;16(5):761-2.
An analysis of dilemmas posed by prehospital DNR orders.
Hall SA.

This article briefly recounts the development of the prehospital do-not-resuscitate (DNR) order and indicates certain situations, such as a choking episode or a suicide attempt, in which the presence of a DNR order may provoke a moral dilemma for the emergency medical technician as to whether or not the patient should be treated. An ethical analysis of this question is performed and concludes that resuscitative treatment is ethical and mandatory.​
 
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