Remembering the Dead

River Ape

Valued Senior Member
North London, 1980.

Anya, nine years old, had been collected by car at 8:30am. She was spending the morning at the house of a friend. Sophia was working that morning, but would be free by mid-afternoon. It was arranged I should collect Anya at 1:30pm; we would walk back home and then all three of us would decide what to do for the remainder of the day.

It was a beautiful warm drowsy sort of summer day. Anya and I enjoyed being out together. We would dawdle and speak of many things. There were three miles to cover, and all the time in the world to wander, and we decided on the route that took us through the cemetery and across the heath.

We were taking a rest with the hillside cemetery spread out below. Mainly 19th Century tombs and monuments, with some big old family vaults. An old lady was making her way along an aisle between tombs and then turned up the main path that ran in our direction. She was carrying a small vase of withered flowers, having doubtless left fresh ones in their place. She spotted Anya looking at her, and gave her a warm smile.

Anya whispered to me, "Isn't she beautiful?" I wondered if you could be beautiful in your eighties. But the word would do well enough. The old lady's face was full of peace, love, gentleness, and a sublime contentment. It would have been memorable among a thousand faces.

We continued on our way, walking down the path. Anya remembered which aisle the old lady had emerged from, and turned to go along it, looking up at me. I nodded my approval. There was a large family monument at the end of the row with a dozen or more names inscribed upon it, mostly dating back a hundred years or more. But the eye was immediately drawn to a patch of white: a cleansed surface free of London grime. On a nearby ledge stood a vase of fresh flowers.

On the patch of white, we read the name of the last person to be lain to rest. It was recorded that he had been tragically killed in a flying accident at the age of 24. It was the date of his death that was remarkable. It had been in 1928, more than fifty-one years before.

"Who was he?" asked Anya quietly.

"I don't know, darling. I know no more than you." He might have been her fiancé or husband, though we reckoned that he would have been younger than the woman who had lovingly remembered him for so many years.

"Perhaps a younger brother," I suggested. Really, we knew nothing of the full story. Had she really been coming here all this time? It seemed so sad. Anya decided to shed a few tears.

When the woman first came here with flowers, so many years ago, we imagined her agonised by grief. But over the decades, happy loving memories had triumphed.

"So you can stop crying, darling. And I'll try to stop too."

It has always stayed so clearly in my mind. I thought I would like to share it with you.
 
It has always stayed so clearly in my mind. I thought I would like to share it with you.

Why? And, no, I'm not trying to be a smart-ass or something. Why should you want to share that story with people that you don't even know? Nor have ever seen? And most probably will never, ever meet in real life.

I guess I'm just odd and strange, but at 65, with tons of stories of things that have happened in my life, I've never, ever had any desire to post them on some Internet forum for others to read. I simply don't understand the desire, the concept, the ideals behind such a need or want or desire.

Baron Max
 
Are you objecting that I asked no questions or expressed no opinions?
I deliberately decided to tell the story straight, trimmed of "editorial", and to let others decide if it contained anything worthy of reflection or comment.
 
Are you objecting that I asked no questions or expressed no opinions?
I deliberately decided to tell the story straight, trimmed of "editorial", and to let others decide if it contained anything worthy of reflection or comment.

No, no, no! You took it all wrong, I think. It's more out of my own curiosity than anything good or bad or wrong about "what" you posted.

I'm curious why you posted it. What prompted you to post it? Did you just want to post because at that moment, you wanted to so you did it? Or did you think that it might make readers feel something? If so, what? Or did you want to make some readers maybe cry a little at the sadness of it? And if so, why?

See? It's .......why? I'm sorry, but I simply, truly, honestly, ...don't understand such actions on Internet forums where no one knows anyone else and everyone uses names that hide their identity, etc. See what I mean?

Please, please, don't take my curiosity as anything mean or hurtful or anythng like that. It's just plain curiosity.

Baron Max
 
I am the same age as you, Baron Max. I was brought up by my grandmother whose husband died in service in WWI in the first year of their marriage. Each day of her life she looked forward in prayer to the time when, through death, she would be reunited with him. (As a small child, pretending sleep, I overheard.) Perhaps that was why the incident in 1980 made a special impression on me.

I could have simply posed the question: When someone you loves dies, when is it time to let go and move on? The point of the story, if you like, was that I was offering some evidence that might run against the psychological mainstream advice. I thought someone might respond to this question (or have other reflections) without my spelling it out explicitly.

(BTW, none of this relates to any problem I have with grief of my own.)
 
My mother-in-law lost her husband to a heart attack and mourned him for over 30 years, til the day she died.

I'm torn between admiration for her for loving someone so much and pity for her for never getting over it.
 
My mother-in-law lost her husband to a heart attack and mourned him for over 30 years, til the day she died. I'm torn between admiration for her for loving someone so much and pity for her for never getting over it.
It's quite possible to love someone enormously, so much that when they're gone your heart feels like it will stop beating and your brain feels like nothing will ever matter again, possibly even breathing and eating... yet also to move past that stage of grief, in time.

It does no honor to a person's memory to halt your life when they're gone. After all, they're gone and you're still there, so it's up to you to carry on whatever endeavors and dreams you shared.

This comes up a lot with pets. A beloved dog, against all odds, lives to be eighteen or nineteen, outlasting the median American marriage, having played with an entire generation of children who are now off living their own lives, sharing your befuddlement at all the new technologies in his home and all the strange-smelling new neighbors who walk past his yard.

Some people say, "I just can't ever have another dog. Oscar was too special and I'll never stop mourning him."

My response is, "How do you think Oscar would feel about this? Just like your trusty housekeeper, gardener or mechanic, Oscar had a job to do. Maybe he was a watchdog but even if not, he made sure that you set aside some time for play every day and he kept you from taking yourself too seriously; he was a beacon of sanity and trust in a world that doesn't offer enough of either. Do you think he'd be happy to know that you intend to allow that important job to go undone and let the consequences unfold?"

I would say the same thing about a spouse, friend, mentor, even a child. Do you really think that person would be pleased that their death has caused you to halt your life in midstream? To allow everything you intended to do go undone, to miss every experience you hoped to have, to let all your friends become lonelier as you withdraw from them to a certain extent?"

Geeze, I'm a normal person and I'm not looking forward to dying, but the prospect would positively frighten me if I thought my wife would break down and, for all intents and purposes, die too! I don't want her to ever forget me, and if she holds me up as a yardstick to everyone she meets and says they don't quite measure up, I suppose I could wink at that. But I want her to carry on!

When you get down to it, there's really only one thing we all have in common: We're all gonna die. So we should all be able to deal with it when it happens to somebody else.

The various stages of grief don't run on a timetable and it takes some people much longer than others to get to the end. (Some people also happen to go through it unusually quickly and they often have problems with friends and family who don't know how to react to that.) But if someone you know is really taking tooooo long, then you should very lovingly and discreetly, but authoritatively, guide them to one of the thousands of people who can help. Another friend who's been through the same thing, a religious leader, a counselor with a formal shingle, your wise old grandma.

Even an astrologer or a fortuneteller if that's what they're into. Most of them really are sincere about helping people, and some of them are as good or better at it than psychotherapists. They just do it in a way that resonates with their particular clientele.
 
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I'm not sure whether to find this ironic, tragic, satirical, or whatever.
She decided to shed a few tears?
Provisional estimate: Ironic 50%; Whatever 50%.
Googling "decided to cry" gets 21 million hits, by the way. I suggest you analyse them all.
 
I'm not sure whether to find this ironic, tragic, satirical, or whatever.
She decided to shed a few tears?

maybe she could feel herself started to tear up and instead of holding it back she DECIDED to go ahead and cry
 
My mother-in-law lost her husband to a heart attack and mourned him for over 30 years, til the day she died.

I'm torn between admiration for her for loving someone so much and pity for her for never getting over it.

Reminds me of what is probably the saddest country song ever written - He Stopped Loving Her Today, performed by George Jones. http://www.google.com/search?q=he+s...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Click the Lala link on the top of the search to listen to it.

My good friend's daughter has been gone for a little over a year now, and I still.... as corny as it seems, I think Gone Away sums up how I feel best. Her now three and a half year old daughter is quite possibly the world's cutest little girl, and I do what I can to see her as often as possible. But she's so much like her mother was at that age, it breaks my heart. And thinking about how she'll never really know her mother, but will only have some very vague memories, the pictures, and the stories we tell her about her mother; it's so sad.

It isn't as though I'm still an insomniac with a destroyed stomach the way I was this time last year - the intensity has faded, though I still think about her often, and am still sometimes overwhelmed by my desire to hear her voice again. She was my friend, and I never should have outlived her. Losing someone so young in a senseless accident is a far different thing than losing an aged relative to a terminal illness.

 
I'm not sure whether to find this ironic, tragic, satirical, or whatever. She decided to shed a few tears?
Hey, I'm the professional editor here. I try very hard not to enforce the standards of my day job. I don't expect Sciforums members to put as much time and effort into a post as they would put into a thesis.;)

That was a nice bit of writing by any standards, better than most of what I have to work with on the job. By the standards of an internet discussion board, it was outstanding.
 
I have a photograph of my mom and it was when she was laughing about something I said during a birthday party for her. I enjoy remembering her for all of the good things she did not only for me but for others as well. Every time I go by that picture I get a smile on my face as well, it is very easy to do, she was always like that. Remembering her as well as anyone you loved that has passed on is a very good thing to do as long as you remember them for the good things and happy times. My two cents worth.
 
...(remembering) anyone you loved that has passed on is a very good thing to do as long as you remember them for the good things and happy times.

Geez, I always hate to come across as a crotchety ol' bastard, but statements like that always make me think of pure damned idealism, with little or no realism to temper it. I just can't let those silly, idealistic statements go by without adding little realism to ...squash the idealism into the ground where it belongs! :D

So, ...remembering "...the good things and happy times" is a good thing? Would you say that we should feel that way about Attila the Hun, Charles Manson, Son of Sam, Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein,...., and all those horrible people of the past?

Baron Max
 
Geez, I always hate to come across as a crotchety ol' bastard, but statements like that always make me think of pure damned idealism, with little or no realism to temper it. I just can't let those silly, idealistic statements go by without adding little realism to ...squash the idealism into the ground where it belongs! :D

So, ...remembering "...the good things and happy times" is a good thing? Would you say that we should feel that way about Attila the Hun, Charles Manson, Son of Sam, Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein,...., and all those horrible people of the past?

Baron Max

I was only referring to our own next of kin not someone else's. :p
 
I have never been grief-stricken by a death. But I have been profoundly moved by the grief that others have felt. I think I am not alone in this; in fact, I am quite sure of it.

It the UK, we keep Remembrance Sunday on the second Sunday in November. I generally go along to the outdoor service in the main street by the war memorial. It is hard to keep the tears from my eyes, but the person I am thinking of did not die in the armed forces; I am thinking of my dear grandmother who lost her husband in 1917 after a few months of marriage before her son (my father) had been born.

I mentioned this to a friend. He knew a woman, he told me, who had lost a son in Iraq. Her son, she had said, "had loved the army life", he had "married the most wonderful girl in all the world." The mother came from an army family and after a while she had accepted her son's death. It was the grief of her daughter-in-law that she found so hard to bear. I felt I understood this.

I don't think we have a special word for the sympathy we feel for the grieving. Perhaps there's a language that does. Fraggle would know!

Repo Man, my profound condolences.

cosmictraveller, your two cents worth are precious good value.
 
Geez, I always hate to come across as a crotchety ol' bastard . . . .
No you don't Max. You LOVE it! It's almost all you ever do, it's practically the only reason you come here.
So, ...remembering "...the good things and happy times" is a good thing? Would you say that we should feel that way about Attila the Hun, Charles Manson, Son of Sam, Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein,...., and all those horrible people of the past?
That admonition (rather obviously) serves as a suggested alternative to grief, so (rather obviously) it only applies to someone dear enough to you that his death causes you grief. Family, close friends, entertainers and other public figures who didn't know you but touched your life in a positive way.

So yes, I would expect Saddam's wife to look back on their good times after a spell of grief, and I'd be a little suspicious if she didn't do that. Like wondering if maybe he was the kind of husband with whom there were never any good times. But for the rest of us, no, of course not. When Sarah Palin comes back from the Dick Cheney School of Hunting and shoots herself in the chest with her moose gun, we'll be free to remember the bad times and then join hands in a rousing chorus of "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead."

Never forget Attila the Hun's faithful wife Miriam. Every time he came home from his conquests, no matter how tired and beat up he was, no matter how many cities he'd sacked and how many children he'd orphaned, Miriam always smiled and said the same thing to him when he walked in the door.

"Hi Hun."
I don't think we have a special word for the sympathy we feel for the grieving. Perhaps there's a language that does. Fraggle would know!
So do you. You just didn't read far enough ahead in your own post.;)
Repo Man, my profound condolences.
From Latin cum, "with" + dolere, "to hurt," i.e., "to share pain."
 
I have never been grief-stricken by a death. But I have been profoundly moved by the grief that others have felt. I think I am not alone in this; in fact, I am quite sure of it.

I'm quite similar, I think. Other than my dogs dying, I've always had enough warning so as to prepare myself for the death of loved ones. (Yes, Fraggle, I do have, and had, loved ones!)

Profoundly moved? Oh, sure ...every time I visit the Vietnam War Memorial I'm deeply moved and often am surprised to discover tears forming in my eyes for no reason whatsoever. Shameful, ain't it ...right there in public.

But, see, I'd never, ever, post something like that on an Internet forum. And that's what I was interested in when I questioned you ...why anyone would do that. I just can't, for the life of me, grasp that kind of action in front of gazillions of anonymous people that you'll never meet, that you don't know, and that don't know you. Somehow it just doesn't make sense to me.

It would be like me posting about my dick! It's very personal ...and I'd never, ever, post on an Internet forum that my dick is 12" long and as thick as a woman's forearm. I just wouldn't post such personal stuff. :D

Baron Max
 
No you don't Max. You LOVE it! It's almost all you ever do, it's practically the only reason you come here.

Someone has to make sure that the people here keep firmly grounded in reality of the world around them. Dreaming warm, fuzzy thoughts all the time is not good for people. So I've appointed myself the reality grounder. :)

Baron Max
 
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