Religious Naturalism

ConsequentAtheist

Registered Senior Member
As noted elsewhere, I was recently introduced to Yi-Fu Tuan who wrote:
Religion

Religion is present to varying degree in all cultures. It appears to be a universal human trait. In religion human beings are clearly distinguished from other animals. How can a humanistic perspective contribute to the geography of religion? The field is in disarray for lack of a coherent definition of the phenomenon it seeks to understand. Research on barns and house types is cultural geography, but research on churches and temples seems to belong to the geography of religion. Why is feng-shui, a technique for locating graves and houses, not treated as a branch of applied geography or even of surveying? Is it deemed religious because some practices in geomancy may appear supernatural or magical to the Western scholar? A field so lacking in focus and so arbitrary in its selection of themes cannot hope to achieve intellectual maturity.

A humanist geographer concerned with religion begins by asking, what is the meaning of religion? To the extent that religion is a special kind of awareness, how does it differ from other kinds of awareness? The word religion is derived from the Latin religare, which means to bind again, that is, to bind oneself strongly to a set of beliefs, faith, or ethic. More broadly speaking, the religious person is one who seeks coherence and meaning in his world, and a religious culture is one that has a clearly structured world view. The religious impulse is to tie things together. To what? The "what" is the ultimate concern theologians speak of, and it differs from people to people. Ultimate concern is the emotion-charged expression for the kingpin of a system of beliefs or the central principle that binds the components of a world view. The central principle may be God, the belief that "God does not play dice," a social or ecological ethic, or a concept of justice or of historical development. In this view, Buddhism is as much of a religion as Christianity, and atheistic Communism is a religion no less than agnostic Confucianism. At the individual level, Albert Einstein was as religious as Thomas Aquinas; their kingpins differed but not their passion for a meaningful cosmos.

All human beings are religious if religion is broadly defined as the impluse for coherence and meaning.

The strength of the impluse varies enormously from culture to culture, and from person to person. A nonreligious person or culture is defined as secular. What does secular mean? It means the religious impulse is reduced to a minimum. A secular person is a pragmatic person who does not act from a set of unwavering principles; his acts are ad hoc, based on the needs and conditions of the moment. He feels no urge to integrate his experience and knowledge with a larger system. He has many short term projects, but no ultimate concern. Modern technological society is secular because its orientations are largely pragmatic; its members do not subscribe to any authoritative world view. It is a mistake, however, to equate modern industrial society with the secular outlook. Some nonliterate peoples are very pragmatic. They may practice magic, but magic is mainly a technique for achieving limited ends and is not integrated with any system of religious thought. A humanistic approach to religion would require that we be aware of the differences in the human desire for coherence, and note how these differences are manifest in the organization of space and time, and in attitudes to nature. [emphasis added - CA]

- "Humanistic Geography". Annals of the Association of American Geographers Vol. 66, No. 2: 266-276, pg. 271-272​
Religion as the impluse for coherence and meaning: does this constitute a cogent definition, and one which frees 'religion' from the chains of supernaturalism and teleology?
 
I think it's valid. But Christianity asserts that God created this coherence, that we are imitating God in seeking it out.
 
Consequent,

But doesn't this ignore the reality that every religion proposes a supernatural source for meaning.

And if there is meaning to life the universe and everything then something "super" or "ultimate" would have had to have defined that meaning. I.e. the source has to be external, and effectively supernatural.

I also seek coherance and meaning but I establish personal meanings and do not look to a "greater" source. Wouldn't your proposal also make me religious? And wouldn't that imply that virtually everyone is religious - to that end the term would largely become meaningless.

Kat
 
yeah how ironic.
Why is it ironic to realize that chaos did not spontaneously becomed ordered, and that the search for order and meaning where there should reasonably be none, is foreign to chaos? Why confine religion to nature, as the definition does above?
 
Jenyar said:
I think it's valid. But Christianity asserts that God created this coherence, that we are imitating God in seeking it out.
Chritianity also asserts that its leader was born of a virgin, cursed fig trees, and prompted a number of zombies to stroll the streets of Jerusalem. So?
 
Katazia said:
Consequent,

But doesn't this ignore the reality that every religion proposes a supernatural source for meaning.
No, it acknowledges that the impulse for meaning could hardly be addressed in any other way before the advent of science, and that it is still plagued by myth and pseudoscience today. Rather than viewing the supernatural as inherent, the definition allows it to be cast as a flawed response. Does not your position, on the other hand, exclude Daoism as a religion?
 
This is an attempt to redefine the word "religion" to embrace things which are ordinarily not considered to be religious. The proposed definition may be self-consistent, and the author is free to run with it if he finds that useful, but I don't think he will convert anybody in a hurry. Words gain their meanings by convention, and it is very difficult to redefine a word by fiat.
 
James R said:
This is an attempt to redefine the word "religion" ...
It certainly could be an attempt to redefine the meaning of a word. It could also be an attempt to articulate the essence of a phenomenon. I'm both surprised and impressed that you know Tuan well enough to know and divulge his intent. I'm somewhat less impressed by a shallow appeal to semantics and vernacular usage, but I'll be sure to bring my pocket dictionary along the next time I chat with my neighborhood Daoist, Unitarian Universalist, or adherent of Humanistic Judaism.
 
Consequentatheist:

ConsequentAtheist said:
It certainly could be an attempt to redefine the meaning of a word. It could also be an attempt to articulate the essence of a phenomenon.

Yes.

I'm both surprised and impressed that you know Tuan well enough to know and divulge his intent.

His intent seems clear from his writing. Don't you think?

I'm somewhat less impressed by a shallow appeal to semantics and vernacular usage, but I'll be sure to bring my pocket dictionary along the next time I chat with my neighborhood Daoist, Unitarian Universalist, or adherent of Humanistic Judaism.

Like it or not, meanings are determined by "vernacular usage".

Let's look at the extract you quoted.

Religion is present to varying degree in all cultures. It appears to be a universal human trait.

Ok.

In religion human beings are clearly distinguished from other animals.

I am not sure that this is common to all religions, but let's run with it for now.

How can a humanistic perspective contribute to the geography of religion? The field is in disarray for lack of a coherent definition of the phenomenon it seeks to understand. Research on barns and house types is cultural geography, but research on churches and temples seems to belong to the geography of religion.

If a barn or a house is part of the "cultural geography", then I don't see why a church or a temple would not be.

Why is feng-shui, a technique for locating graves and houses, not treated as a branch of applied geography or even of surveying?

Because feng-shui is not just a technique for locating graves and houses. It comes with a lot more baggage than that, and its adherents believe it has many more uses.

Is it deemed religious because some practices in geomancy may appear supernatural or magical to the Western scholar?

Who deems it religious? Cultural geographers? Presumably they are not using the vulgar vernacular definition either.

A field so lacking in focus and so arbitrary in its selection of themes cannot hope to achieve intellectual maturity.

Perhaps.

A humanist geographer concerned with religion begins by asking, what is the meaning of religion? To the extent that religion is a special kind of awareness, how does it differ from other kinds of awareness?

I know little of humanist geographers, so I am happy to accept this provisionally.

The word religion is derived from the Latin religare, which means to bind again, that is, to bind oneself strongly to a set of beliefs, faith, or ethic. More broadly speaking, the religious person is one who seeks coherence and meaning in his world, and a religious culture is one that has a clearly structured world view. The religious impulse is to tie things together. To what? The "what" is the ultimate concern theologians speak of, and it differs from people to people. Ultimate concern is the emotion-charged expression for the kingpin of a system of beliefs or the central principle that binds the components of a world view. The central principle may be God, the belief that "God does not play dice," a social or ecological ethic, or a concept of justice or of historical development. In this view, Buddhism is as much of a religion as Christianity, and atheistic Communism is a religion no less than agnostic Confucianism. At the individual level, Albert Einstein was as religious as Thomas Aquinas; their kingpins differed but not their passion for a meaningful cosmos.

I agree with this paragraph, provided his proferred definition of religion is accepted. This is the point I addressed in my previous post. I apologise for any perceived lack of appropriate cultural and intellectual snobbery on my part.

All human beings are religious if religion is broadly defined as the impluse for coherence and meaning.

Yes, if.

The strength of the impluse varies enormously from culture to culture, and from person to person. A nonreligious person or culture is defined as secular. What does secular mean? It means the religious impulse is reduced to a minimum.

... given the above definition of religion.

A secular person is a pragmatic person who does not act from a set of unwavering principles; his acts are ad hoc, based on the needs and conditions of the moment. He feels no urge to integrate his experience and knowledge with a larger system. He has many short term projects, but no ultimate concern.

This is, of course, a redefinition of "secular" to match the redefinition of "religious".

Modern technological society is secular because its orientations are largely pragmatic; its members do not subscribe to any authoritative world view.

Perhaps. This is debatable.

It is a mistake, however, to equate modern industrial society with the secular outlook. Some nonliterate peoples are very pragmatic. They may practice magic, but magic is mainly a technique for achieving limited ends and is not integrated with any system of religious thought.

Yes...

A humanistic approach to religion would require that we be aware of the differences in the human desire for coherence, and note how these differences are manifest in the organization of space and time, and in attitudes to nature.

I agree.

So, Consequentatheist, was this thread intended as a discussion thread, or is disagreement forbidden?
 
James R said:
So, Consequentatheist, was this thread intended as a discussion thread, or is disagreement forbidden?
Disagreement is appreciated. I simply expected better from you. The appeal to vernacular usage, beaten to death in the endless posts about "atheism" and "agnosticism" is not one that I find particularly compelling. If, however, you prefer dictionary to discourse, I would simple note that the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary offers definitions that in no way presuppose either Diety or Supernaturalism, e.g.,
re·li·gion

2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

re·li·gious

1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2 : of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances​
Seriously, James R, I would appreciate knowing your definition as it might apply to Pantheism, Daoism, Unitarian Universalism, and Humanistic Judaism.
 
ConsequentAtheist:

Like you, I don't find games of dueling dictionaries very interesting. However, since you have quoted one dictionary, allow me to quote one too. I choose the Oxford English Dictionary, which defines religion as:

1. particular system of faith and worship.
2. human recognition of superhuman controlling power and esp. of a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship; effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude.
3. thing that one is devoted to or is bound to do.

I think this definition covers most of the things you mention.
 
Again, James R, I would appreciate knowing your definition as it might apply to Pantheism, Daoism, Unitarian Universalism, and Humanistic Judaism.
 
Religion as the impluse for coherence and meaning

I think that's so broad that the word loses meaning.

In my vernacular, the components of "a form of organization" and "deity related" are the source of the word's utility. I'm initially inclined to agree with it, as the offered usage is perfectly agnostic and reflects the notion of "faith in reason" that I think follows from agnosticism. I think that impulsively seeking coherence and meaning from stimulus is an act predicated on faith in the validity of that stimulous, a faith solidified by practical experience. However, I don't think "faith" and "religion" are synonymous. So I think what people share in common, as you were saying is "faith" rather than "religion".
 
wesmorris said:
I think that's so broad that the word loses meaning.
I find it elegant and feel, perhaps naively, that it provides insight into the religion's pervasiveness.
wesmorris said:
In my vernacular, the components of "a form of organization" and "deity related" are the source of the word's utility.
OK, But would that not exclude Pantheism, Daoism and many forms of Buddhism? Do you insist that they are not religions?

It seems to me that the vernacular, as an element of culture, will necessarily reflect our Judeo-Christian/western culture. I wonder what term is used in the East and what that term suggests.
 
If you're interested in other insights into religions' pervasiveness, I highly recommend Pascal Boyer's book Religion explained.
 
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