Religion is Ruining Science!

[Calculusaurus]

Religion is ruining science. I'm sure you've heard the opposite statement before, worded some way or another: the facts and figures of science are turning heads away from the mysticism of religion. For me, any religous doctrine is all but infallible; for me, it holds no truth and doesn't deserve consideration for any [truth]. Please keep the above in mind while reading, and if you want to flame me for my opinions, then do so in another thread.

Alright, on to the point. Take a good look at yourself or someone sitting next to you. Is it not amazing that billions of years of evolution on this planet have produced such a creature? In fact, go over your biology notes, or just read a biology textbook. The complexity of DNA and genetics, or even the simple diversity of species--all transcends even the merest comprehension of the human mind. If science has any romanticism, it's in the awe of the universe, and the evolution of species on planet earth is no exception.

Then how is religion ruining science? Simple: The awe that the universe is supposed to give us is ruined by the excuse that the universe is mystical. "Ooh, look at the complexity of life, of the universe. No big deal though, since God created it." What is supposed to drop our jaws is merely dismissed as a product of God's sorcery.

In other words, the presence of religion softens the awe that the universe is suppose to give us. And what is most disheartening is that it affects all but the most adament atheists. If a person has at least the slightest doubt of the nonexistence of God, then he or she has lost the ability to look at the universe with the correct awe--the awe of the natural rise of an amazing universe, not the awe of a false mysticism.

When studying biology, a typical person would run into something outstanding--such as genetics--and instead of interpretting it as a complete wonder as to how such a system formed through evolution--which should naturally lead to an intense desire of scientific curiosity--they excuse it [genetics] as a mere possible creation of a God--something that hardly leaves room for imaginitive processes. Unfortunately, this state of mind pervades the archetypal mind of a human. It is better to trust that no God exists, so the mysteries of the universe can be looked upon with wonder, not dismissed as ridiculous mysticism.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

You will find that if your study these complex biological processes that they are dirty and gritty. It is a miracle that it all works the way it does, but they certainly don't give you an impression that a god has been all behind it.

So i don't really understand your point.

 

[whitewolf]

A scientist does not mix science with religion because he is to find things out in a logical manner. Have to agree with Spurious, too.

 

[Calculusaurus]

I think you misunderstood my point. I was simply trying to say that science would be a lot better of if it had not the oppression of religious ideas. Isn't it easier to study evolution with the sound assumption that there is no God? Fortunately, most evolutionary biologists have this stance anyway. But the common person does not; the common person cannot see the wonder of fascinating events such as evolution because they are blinded by the notion that evolution never occured by scientific chance, rather it occured (either not at all or) by intelligent design. Now intelligent design ruins the beauty of science; it is much more beautiful to see evolution as something like incredible chance--it is fascinating to see humans arise out of nothing, right? Well, that fascination is ruined by the ridiculous 'miracle' of God.

Spurious: I don't have a doctorate in science, but I've efficient study knowledge to understand biological processes.

 

[sargentlard]

You will find that if your study these complex biological processes that they are dirty and gritty. It is a miracle that it all works the way it does, but they certainly don't give you an impression that a god has been all behind it.

So i don't really understand your point.

He is merely trying to say that humanity's appreciation of science is lessened by the popular religious belief that god made it all. That science would get more "ahhh"s and "ohh"s had religion not been invented.

The fact that many people dismiss the oppertunity to see the Universe for what it is because they believe god created it, so they accept its greatness as another miracle of god. It takes away a lot from the true wonderment of it all. I believe that was his point intial point. I agree to a great extent with his view. Many times I have seen teens or even my parents pass of an amazing turn of events leading up to something truly amazing passed off as a "pretty cool" occurence made from god's hands.

Calculusaurus

To be fair, for many to really appreciate the amazing beauty of our world they have to understand it's happenings more deeply and throughly...something many do not have patience or time for. What is just another cool science event to many of us now was a fearful and worrisome phenomenon created by someone more powerful than us. Overtime religion has gained strength and influence over the masses so many just pass off everything as "lord's" doing. Sad for someone to deprive thenselves of the trut hand it's splendor.

 

[wesmorris]

I seriously doubt that science could exist were it not preceded by religion. Religion is a result of human intellect with no greater context in which to thrive. Religion was in essence the "context substitute" for many millenea... eventually paving the way for science to replace it as the authority for knowledge. Cultural lag will keep religions alive and well for some time to come, but they will.. as they always have... adapt and claim it was all their idea.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

I agree calculusaurus, but whats worse is the people that don't believe in god have a hard time being impressed by the natural universe because they think so little of religious types that they don't want to even sort of act like them in any way.
Just like religious types dismiss the amazingness of the world with "god did it", most atheists seem to dismiss it as "just science", and refuse to step back and say "yeah thats pretty freaking amazing", I think thats sad.
Its something the average person doesn't seem to want to think about, it is a rather intellectually intimidating thought to ponder, just how strange earth and the universe are and wondering what the hell is going on.

I agree with your point wesmorris.
Would you agree, and this is really offtopic, that those making the physical bulk of this cultural lag should be removed from society to make it a more efficient and productive machine??? No?
It would be like cleansing your car of old parts, actually no, the current system is like leaving the old parts under the hood after they have been replaced with new parts, the hood is now crowded and the old rusty useless parts are clattering around restricting the new parts from running smoothly.
Obviously someone that wanted a car that worked well would not leave old junk under the hood, when they got new parts they would replace the old parts and throw the old parts away. But we seem to be sentimental about our old parts, we just don't have the heart to get rid of them.
Well this car is fucked and some things are more important than sentiment, how about we dispatch of the old parts and make a sweet memorial in their honour?

Still no? Bah human rights enthusiasts are starting to look alot like old parts themselves

 

[wesmorris]

Would you agree, and this is really offtopic, that those making the physical bulk of this cultural lag should be removed from society to make it a more efficient and productive machine??? No?

No. I'm not willing to pay the cost. Some people that I care for dearly are part of this cultural lag. There is a much broader point as well that we should consider. If you are incapable of providing your own "spiritual medicine", religions wait in the wings with a prescription for what ales you. This is an important function in society, as I don't believe most people are equipped for the rigors of life "outside the fold" so to speak. Certainly most people aren't truly devout, but the medicine offered by religion is still the cure for what would ale them otherwise.

Obviously the idiot extremists who seek to take down science, etc. annoy me to no end, but that does not mean that we should simply off them. To do so is to accept the route the world found so appauling with Mr. Hitler. I can't take that route. I refuse. That isn't to say however, that some insane asshole won't try the shit anyway. *shrug*

It would be like cleansing your car of old parts, actually no, the current system is like leaving the old parts under the hood after they have been replaced with new parts, the hood is now crowded and the old rusty useless parts are clattering around restricting the new parts from running smoothly.
Obviously someone that wanted a car that worked well would not leave old junk under the hood, when they got new parts they would replace the old parts and throw the old parts away. But we seem to be sentimental about our old parts, we just don't have the heart to get rid of them.

Ah the good doctor in the house. Doesn't seem that I've seen you around lately. Hmm. I think the system has a way of taking care of itself. Thus far is has been through attrition, but as the world gets smaller, the idea and sheer massive numbers of the required attrition are too phenomenal to stomach. That isn't to say that we won't produce more Hitlers. Seems like there's probably a ton of wannabe's at any given time. Most of them don't have his gifts. Some of them are just shut down by lack of opportunity. I wonder sometimes if one of them will slip through into power one of these days. Meh. No sense in worrying.

Well this car is fucked and some things are more important than sentiment, how about we dispatch of the old parts and make a sweet memorial in their honour?

I don't think it's as fucked as you think it is. Here's the hypothetical deal: Humans used to have to spend all their time tryign to survive. In many countries this is still the deal, but in the 'modern' countries, we don't have to worry too much about survival, we worry about abstract things like performing a function for a corporation or whatever. We get our food by giving someone some paper for it, by picking it off of a shelf. The drama that used to be our daily lives is all washed up, so basically, we make shit up to replace it because as a species, we are simply not comfortable without that struggle.

Still no? Bah human rights enthusiasts are starting to look alot like old parts themselves

Still no because I'm an empath and I care about people even though I despise their beliefs.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

I think you misunderstood my point. I was simply trying to say that science would be a lot better of if it had not the oppression of religious ideas. Isn't it easier to study evolution with the sound assumption that there is no God? Fortunately, most evolutionary biologists have this stance anyway. But the common person does not; the common person cannot see the wonder of fascinating events such as evolution because they are blinded by the notion that evolution never occured by scientific chance, rather it occured (either not at all or) by intelligent design. Now intelligent design ruins the beauty of science; it is much more beautiful to see evolution as something like incredible chance--it is fascinating to see humans arise out of nothing, right? Well, that fascination is ruined by the ridiculous 'miracle' of God.

Spurious: I don't have a doctorate in science, but I've efficient study knowledge to understand biological processes.

It is not really a scientific problem. Nobody in science takes creationism serious. There are no creationists publications on evolution in serious journals. The creationist world is a political one.

The problem creationists create is mainly a local one. The US seems mostly affected by it. They allow students to be ill educated because a religious fraction has enough power to change the curriculum.

This does not create a scientific problem as such. It just means that on average the american student is not very well informed on evolution and has partly already lost the competitive battle that we call science.

On the higher level of science practice this doesn't make a difference at all. The standards of scientific theory and evidence do not change just because a group of 'civilians' doesn't like ideas that contradict theirs.

I just feel sorry for the students who have to put up with this.

 

[Calculusaurus]

spuriousmonkey: I agree. A bulk of the problem lies within the nonprofessional science community. I can account for this, for my AP biology class is almost as sickening, brainwashing, and bigoted as sunday school! (when it comes to evolution lectures).

 

[ConsequentAtheist]

I highly recommend: The Sacred Depths of Nature, by Ursula Goodenough.

 

[omnicake]

I believe that there is a conflicting problem between religion and science. Yet, science fact are indeed facts that can be proven. I have never seen proof that any thing religious can be proven.