Religion is a Good Invitation

L

Leo Volont

Registered Senior Member
Religion is a Good Invitation

One of my first Visions showed that Religion was supposed to be more than a onerous obligation and painful duty. Suddenly I was confronted by this broadly smiling face of a young man, barely old enough to have his first scraggly whiskers. His complexion was dark and I supposed he was of India. His smile was so intense and his face so close to mine that I was somewhat taken aback. Then a Voice came out of the Sky and said, “Then He went into the Wilderness and became One”. Then I realized that this young man was a Young Christ… maybe not Jesus Christ… but one approaching that same Spiritual Status.

As the Voice spoke the Young Saint turned and walked off into the sparse brush, and then I noticed that each bush and blade of grass glowed with a Blue-Silver Aura… the same Aura as the Young Saint. This New Christ was experiencing the Life Force of all things. It was his feeling of Unity in All Life which gave Him His immense Joy – his unbelievably broad smile.

Such is what is offered when we are invited to True Religion. Yet some people think of Religion only as an emotional crutch, or a social and moral necessity. Yes, Religion has performed these roles. But there is the standing invitation to go way beyond that.
 
altec,

Because it was a vision......DUH!
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So how do you distinguish between a claimed vision and an imaginative fantasy?

The later of course having real credibility while the former has none.

Kat
 
Katazia said:
altec,

So how do you distinguish between a claimed vision and an imaginative fantasy?

The later of course having real credibility while the former has none.

Kat
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Vatican Investigators try to detect a fine balance between Orthodoxy and Originality, supposing that the Agencies of Heaven will not be heretical but will also be above being trite or cliche.

But, yes, to anyone listening to my Stories, they ought to remain just stories, though they should open you up to the possibitlity that you can visit the same or higher Spiritual Realms and come back with Visions of your own.
 
Leo,

Vatican Investigators try to detect a fine balance between Orthodoxy and Originality, supposing that the Agencies of Heaven will not be heretical but will also be above being trite or cliche.
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There really is no reason why anyone should trust what the Vatican or the Church might say since they are hardly independent or objective concerning religious matters and there is sufficient evidence of past misdeeds to show that they cannot be trusted on matters of truth.

But, yes, to anyone listening to my Stories, they ought to remain just stories, though they should open you up to the possibitlity that you can visit the same or higher Spiritual Realms and come back with Visions of your own.
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Well that doesn’t answer my question of how you distinguish between a vision and a fantasy delusion, they appear to me to be indistinguishable with only the latter having any real credibility.

The more likely explanation of religious visions lies probably in the new and growing science of neurotheology. Here scientists have located that part of the brain that can be self-stimulated to generate images that are erroneously interpreted as religious visions. This is closely linked with TLE (Temporal Lobe Epilepsy) where it has been well known for hundreds of years that epileptics have such experiences during their fits. Interestingly Mohammed was a recorded epileptic and it seems certain that the basis of ISLAM was the result of a brain fart from a deranged epileptic.

I don’t doubt you believe the things you claim but really you are almost certainly the victim of self-delusions helped by your brain feeding you false images that you want to see. Extreme gullibility is the other, possibly more likely explanation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2865009.stm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/vis_brain.htm

Kat
 
oh and KAT, dont forget the big one he has, delusions of grandieur.
ALTEC: I think she knows you were kidding, but poor LEO is clearly not.
 
Leo Volont said:
Religion is a Good Invitation

One of my first Visions showed that Religion was supposed to be more than a onerous obligation and painful duty. Suddenly I was confronted by this broadly smiling face of a young man, barely old enough to have his first scraggly whiskers.
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I strongly suggest immediate psychotherapy to anyone who tells me they have had a vision.

..or suggest they stop self medicating which can be a common cause of this as well....


..or suggest they get a girlfriend or get married since the most common cause of these outbursts is a dire need for attention.

-Mark
 
Katazia said:
Leo,

There really is no reason why anyone should trust what the Vatican or the Church might say since they are hardly independent or objective concerning religious matters and there is sufficient evidence of past misdeeds to show that they cannot be trusted on matters of truth.

Kat
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Our Civilization comes down to us from the Catholic Church. Our Traditions of Jurisprudence were rescued from the ruins of the Roman Empire and passed to us from The Church. In their Investigations they use all the same rules governing evidence as are legal systems.

It is the usual ploy of the Skeptics that anybody who finds validity in an Spiritual Reality are unscientific, or if they were scientific, that they were biased or mendacious.

What about Prahlad Jani who was studied by Medical Doctors in Sterling Hospital. Their Study decided that Prahlad Jani was possibly telling the truth in his claim that he has not eaten or drank (and subsequently, not eliminated) in over sixty years. Over an extended period he was under unbroken surveillance and without ingesting anything was found to sustain body weight and energy levels. The Scientists involved were not being paid by the Vatican or by Maharishi. They submitted their Study to NASA hoping for a grant to do a followup -- to determine if Astronauts could adopt whatever technique or condition Prahlad Jani uses, as space travel would be made much easier if food, water and excrements were not involved.

I kind of wish that Prahlad Jani was a Catholic, but since he is a Goddess Worshipper I am satisfied that he is close enough -- his Goddess being only another Aspect of the Ever Blessed Virgin Mary.
 
Katazia said:
altec,

ya just never know around here with so many fundies.

:cool: Kat
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I'm a Marian Anti-Pauline Catholic. It is my guess that 'Fundies' are going to Hell because of their damnable Antinomianism.
 
I think it's most likely that Leo is astral-projecting while he's dreaming. People who do this report similar stuff, many of them believe they have actually met angels .
 
okinrus said:
I think it's most likely that Leo is astral-projecting while he's dreaming. People who do this report similar stuff, many of them believe they have actually met angels .
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"Astral Projection" is sort of a catch all. But as a word, it conveys about the right meaning, as long as it isn't slathered down with too many weirdly occult implications.

A while back I did have an experience that would seem to better conform to your sense of Astral Projection. Sometimes when i become aware that I am dreaming I try certain prayers or mantras (an Old Dream Guru once taught me that even 5 minutes of Meditation in a Dream is worth thousands of hours of waking practice. I have found this same notion applies to many other Spiritual Practices). In this dream I decided to recite the first phrase of the "Hail Mary" -- 'Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with Thee'. As soon as I began, I was swooped up by this huge spinning Vortex. The next thing I remember I came out from the other side, but instead of repeating the standard "Hail Mary" I was saying 'Hail Mary full of Grace, the WORLD is with Thee". I was much taken aback, that I was getting the prayer 'wrong', when I said one last time ' Hail Mary full of Grace, World Lifter'. Then I really was surprised, wondering where that came from. I supposed I was taken up into a Spiritual Realm and sent down with a message. The last part of the dream puzzles me -- I was dropped down into this spotlessly clean kitchen -- all shining stainless steel and white enamal and formica.
 
Leo,

What about Prahlad Jani who was studied by Medical Doctors in Sterling Hospital. Their Study decided that Prahlad Jani was possibly telling the truth in his claim that he has not eaten or drank (and subsequently, not eliminated) in over sixty years. Over an extended period he was under unbroken surveillance and without ingesting anything was found to sustain body weight and energy levels. The Scientists involved were not being paid by the Vatican or by Maharishi. They submitted their Study to NASA hoping for a grant to do a followup -- to determine if Astronauts could adopt whatever technique or condition Prahlad Jani uses, as space travel would be made much easier if food, water and excrements were not involved.
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The claimed tests were only over 10 days, that is hardly evidence that it had been sustained for 60 years. The tests also noted that he had lost weight over the 10 days which is evidence that if hadn’t eaten for 60 years then he would have wasted away long ago.

Apart from the one unsubstantiated report in 2003, that was simply copied by all the news agencies without verification, there doesn’t seem to have been any follow-up. Indian fakirs have been extremely numerous and to date all of them have been shown to be frauds. There is no reason to believe that this is anything other than another fraud.

Do you have any further information on this fakir other than the original article? Can you verify that the claimed tests actually took place? Is there any evidence that a 10 day test could be projected to 60+ years? Such a conclusion would not be made by responsible scientists.

Kat
 
Katazia said:
Leo,

The claimed tests were only over 10 days, that is hardly evidence that it had been sustained for 60 years. The tests also noted that he had lost weight over the 10 days which is evidence that if hadn’t eaten for 60 years then he would have wasted away long ago.

Kat
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Have you studied science very long? The Study concluded that they could move onto the next phase, which is how he does it. Or is science so uncertain that you can arrive at diametrically opposed conclusions to the same data?
 
Katazia said:
Leo,

Indian fakirs have been extremely numerous and to date all of them have been shown to be frauds. There is no reason to believe that this is anything other than another fraud.

Kat
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How long have you said you've been a thorough going scientist? How scientific is it to say that "All fakirs have been shown to be frauds". Really! I did not know that anybody had the wherewithall to conduct such a broad study.

What I have seen was such as Randy the Exposer, and ilk such as he, who go and give a cursory look and then contrive to imagine a possible alternative explanation -- like the Blue Book People substituting 'swamp gas' for 'Alien Flying Machine', or some scientific debunkers reducing spectacular visions common to thousands of witnesses as 'random neural discharges'.

Assertions of denial do not 'PROVE' anything. And so far the debunkers have just been dealing in flat denials.

Not eating or drinking is a common miracle. All Supernatural Stigmatics can't eat or drink, and they can't eat or drink for years at a time. Many Bishops in the Church are secretly Masonic and do their best to debunk Stigmatics who appear in their jurisdictions. Being as hostile and invasive as the worst scientists, the Church investigations, often going way longer then 10 days, determine that the Stigmatics are not eating or drinking. They also admit that the wounds stay open and do not heal, while at the same time remaining free from infection.

Look at the instance of Padre Pio. His bishop was so hostile to him that Pio was sent off to the remotest possible Monastery and ordered to stay in his cell. No contact was allowed with the public. The only way we know about Padre Pio was that an influential lay person used his leverage with the Vatican to appeal the Bishop's punative rulings. The leverage consisted in Pio's legal ownership of a important patent. In the 1920's or 30's an Italian inventor patented the idea of using a steam engine to generate electricity and then using electric motors to drive a railway locomotive. As it turned out, every commercial locomotive in the world would soon use such a configuration. This Italian inventor died and left the patent to Padre Pio. And Padre Pio turned over the revenues to the Vatican. But the people in the Financial House which processed the revenues threatened to shut off the funds if Pio was continued held incommunicado. So, that we know of a Saint of Pio's stature is an accident of Pio having made certain friends. We could suppose that the Church may have been successful in burying other Saints unknown to the public. Joseph of Copertino was also banished and held incommunicado.
 
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