Religion In Public Schools

goofyfish

goofyfish

Analog By Birth, Digital By Design
Valued Senior Member
During high school in the seventies, I had a “Religions of the World” class. It stuck largely to Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism and if a student mentioned an interest in a different religion to the teacher we covered that as well - we even had a Wiccan come in and give a talk. By the time my younger brother got into high school, the class had vanished from the curriculum.

I think it should be brought back. Comparative (and I stress comparative) religion should be taught in U.S. public schools.

We can't teach all children that Jesus will save us, but what if we DID teach religion? What if we taught the theories, the lessons, the HISTORY of religion? A variety of religions should be covered, from Christianity to Wicca; from Judaism to Taoism. Teach that all these theories are out there. That they are all important, and that we'd be better people if we learned and understood them all?

Religion is, like it or not, one of the main driving forces behind every culture in the world. If you learn about different religions - what they mean, what they believe, how they are similar or different from your own beliefs - you have a much greater likelihood of understanding and accepting those different from you.

I fully support the idea of some type of "religions” class in public schools, but the problem is that no matter what how hard you try to be fair, impartial, and unbiased, there will always be somebody upset by the material that the teacher presents or the way that it is presented. There are some people who would oppose any mention of religion in a public school. On the other end of the spectrum are those who would be angered simply by the attempt to put all of the world's major religions on an equal footing. School boards usually want to minimize controversy in order to prevent lawsuits, so convincing them to wade into this area would be difficult.

Is there a way to make this workable? Should the attempt be made?

Peace.
 
Yea, we did something like that when we were studing Indoneasion

The teacher tought us abourt the different religions there but a true comparison of ALL religions would have been fun
 
It's very odd. IN my high school Greek mythology was taught in history class. Yet you guys are considering wasting precious school time on a separate class for religion. Why not just have a single class for mythologies in general?
 
Originally posted by Adam
In my high school Greek mythology was taught in history class. *snip* Why not just have a single class for mythologies in general?
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I don’t think a majority of people have their world view framed by Greek mythology. My proposition is geared more towards promoting a broader understanding of people's desires and motivations, as influenced by religion.

Peace.
 
I think a hell of a lot of people used to have their world view framed by Greek mythology. Particularly the ancient Greeks. The only difference here is that those old Greek myths don't enjoy the same status as they once did. Time is the only difference. Since christianity, for example, is partly about "this is what happened in the past", it seems to me in exactly the same bucket as Greek mythology.
 
Originally posted by Adam
...a lot of people used to have their world view framed by Greek mythology.
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"Used to." Exactly. This is about world views of those who are alive today. Whether or not you (not Adam, but a generic "you") as an individual believe what another believes, an understanding of their beliefs promotes an air of tolerance.

Peace.
 
Wouldn't tolerance and understanding of different cultures be better achieved by examining many such things from various stages of history?
 
Originally posted by Adam
Wouldn't tolerance and understanding of different cultures be better achieved by examining many such things from various stages of history?
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It probably would but comparative religion throughout history might be a little too large a subject to tackle in High School. ;)

I think it's a good idea though Goofyfish. Just as long as they don't cut down on English, Math, and Science to make room for it. Get rid of the rubbish like Home Economics instead.

~Raithere
 
Hey now...Home Ec can be a valuable class, ESPECIALLY for men.

I've seen quite a few men who aren't exactly sure how to sweep a floor in any sort of efficient fashion. Guys who think baking a potato will go quicker if you crank up the oven to about 550 degrees. I think most people would benefit from a semester in a Home Ec. class. I'd say general nutrition and health would be good to squeeze into such a class as well - PE sure doesn't cover it.

I'm also in favor of mandating at least a semester of auto shop for everyone too, I'm not just pickin' on the guys here. Women should be able to change a tire, check the oil, and perform other basic maintenance on their vehicles, just like guys should learn how to sweep a floor and bake a spud.

As for the religion class...I think it's a good idea but at the High School level it's probably better off being an elective. That would help quell the parents freaking out about their kids being exposed to anything they dislike, and allow other students the option of learning something. Perhaps even force a choice - either study comparative religion, or take a more anthropological course studying comparative cultures...something like that would probably solve the majority of the reasonable complaints.

My two-and-a-half cents...
 
Adam

• The only difference here is that those old Greek myths don't enjoy the same status as they once did. Time is the only difference. Since christianity, for example, is partly about "this is what happened in the past", it seems to me in exactly the same bucket as Greek mythology.

• Wouldn't tolerance and understanding of different cultures be better achieved by examining many such things from various stages of history?

• Why not just have a single class for mythologies in general?

First of all, Adam, how, exactly, are the schools funded in Australia?

Now then ...

Tolerance and understanding is, in fact, better achieved by a better historical education. However, the historical mythologies should thrown into the same bucket as the active mythologies. Greek, Roman, and Celtic myth, at least, have many common points that should be studied. Certain Persian mythologies would be helpful toward understanding Manichianism and the philosophical groundwork for dualism in the west.

But the Christian myth is not as settled as you think. To wit, I once listened to "talk radio" because, for some reason, in the company car I drove and in my office at the warehouse, AM radio seemed to dominate. But we had a Libertarian host from somewhere in Oregon who once took a call about public schools. He was upset, first, at the apparent bigotry against Christianity in the public schools, in the form of a field trip to an indigenous Reservation. He was upset, secondly, because his daughter had failed a paper she wrote about Jesus, which somehow proved that the teachers hated Christians.

• The "religious" ceremony to which he referred was the witnessing of song and dance in the village center. We frequently use the ill-fitting word "powwow".

• The host asked the caller about it. Well? What should they do? What religion, sir, are you, the host asked. Southern Baptist Convention. I see, said the host. And what if that teacher is Catholic? Should she take your daughter down to a Catholic church and tell her this is "right"? No, but ... No buts, sir. What about other parents? When they're trying to make the Jewish kid into a Southern Baptist, what would you say? Well .... I remind you sir, you're complaining that your freedom of religion is being violated. But ... Why don't you tell us about the paper.

• It was a research paper on Jesus that the teacher flunked my daughter on. I see, how old is your daughter? Okay, eighth grade? Alright. And do you know what the assignment was, exactly? It was a research paper. I have it in my hand. Are there any notes on it? She says my daughter didn't do her research. Didn't do research, I see. You said it was a research paper. My own son has has to do one of those. Tell me, is there a specific way the paper has to be done? What does the assignment say? The assignment is three resources in support of a thesis. I see. What are your daughter's three resources? Matthew, Mark, and Luke. In the Bible? Yes. Ah, well, there's the first thing. The Bible only counts as one source because it's one book. Did she have a thesis? The teacher didn't say so. Well what does your daughter say about her thesis? She says that Jesus Christ is supreme Lord of the Universe and the only way to get into heaven. I think I see the problem; it's not an arguable thesis. Damn straight it's not because you can't argue with the truth ....

Specifically, Adam, the American people, at least, wouldn't stand for it. Part of the reason we exclude Christianity from the curriculum is that any attempt to include it is bound to contain academic counterpoints to someone's faith. The schools are accused of indoctrinating children. Even the religious objection to making birth control available in high schools surrounds the overriding of parental will. We should be able to teach our children about sex the way we think is proper, went the argument. Of course, as the supermodel on Bill Maher several years ago (Nikki something?) pointed out: those parents don't teach their kids about those things.

The "dead" mythologies, if you will, are easily taught in any form. Just tell a child what they mean, and unless you're glaringly on the wrong path, it flies. The living mythologies, though, present a much different problem. Perspective is one of the advantages we have being down in it. People object to the interpretations of virtue in the dead mythologies. They object to the mere existence of the living ones outside their own paradigm.

I think it would be more worthwhile to teach Philosophy to high school students, and leave the religious education for college.

We dump a lot of information on students, and tell them very little about what to do with it. Like the guy at my Catholic school who saw (not read) All Quiet on the Western Front and suddenly decided to feel sorry for the Germans. Eternally. He became our school's one known and admitted Neo-Nazi. Of course, he really was that stupid. And that bitter. And this was in a Catholic school, where we pride ourselves on not being that stupid.

Oh, well.

thanx much,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Cupic

HEY

Im going to be a chef

Leave me alone

I LOVE cooking (and yes did HE till Year 10)
 
How are schools funded in Australia? That's a tricky question, a little. Supposedly our public schools are funded by our taxes. But we also have to pay yearly fees, pay for camps and curricular excursions which should be paid for by the state since they are part of the curriculum, book and stuff costs, and so on... So we pay once in taxes, again for the school fees, again for each little thing to pops up. Unless you go to a private school, as my little brother did. Then you just sell your soul to pay for the ridiculous fees.
 
We don't need no education

Originally posted by Cupric
Hey now...Home Ec can be a valuable class, ESPECIALLY for men.

So can shop class but when we graduate students who have trouble reading and writing English and can't do simple math it's time to get back to the basics. If we first teach students how to garner information for themselves and how to think then the whole baked potato issue goes away on it's own. Presently, in my opinion, we spend far too much time shoving facts and instructions down students throats for them to ever get a chance to think and comprehend for themselves. We spend too much time teaching students how to do things rather than teaching them how to figure things out for themselves.

Actually, regarding religions, there are classes that should already be teaching something of these subjects; Social Studies and History. Unfortunately, they spend so much time pounding dates into children's heads that the relevant social issues go largely unnoticed. While a general timeline is necessary to have any understanding of History the specific day and date is rarely very important except in an expert analysis.

Thing is, it's much easier to teach and test whether a student knows on what day the Magna Carta was signed than to teach and test whether a student has some comprehension of the economic, political, and social issues that lead to WWII.

~Raithere
 
I've always been really interested in any type of mythology, I even tried to conquer egyptian mythology but there's like fifty variations so it was almost all in vain.

But yeah, I think a religion class that didn't preach to us and tell us to convert our heathenous friends would be awsome. Since religion has been and still is immensely popular why not at least know what everyone is talking about rather than be clueless. Plus there's always the chance that one of em is real! (they should be varied of course, after all, learning about canabalism gets boring after awhile)

But the problem, at least in the US, is getting past the constitution. I don't doubt that everyone here knows that church and state cannot be intertwined, and I think that if a teacher from a small public school went up against the supreme court for this small religion class it would lose popularity, unless of course he/she won, which when I think about it doesn't seem so unlikely because the supreme court at the moment is more conservative. But if it came to actually changing the constitution or ratifying an ammendment it would take years, the bill would have to pass through I think every state in the country and pass 2/3 of them.

But I'd definitely be interested in a class like that.
 
I would also like to see a religions class in schools. Beliefs aside, the history of the differing religions is very interesting. Being as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are related, this could be a great class to teach understanding to young kids who are of differing religions. I know I'd take it and I'd talk to my kids about taking it
 
Church and State

Originally posted by Pollux V
But the problem, at least in the US, is getting past the constitution.
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Teaching about religions is not what the 1st Amendment is prohibiting; "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". It prohibits the establishment of a state religion and the state prohibition of religion. Of course, this doesn't mean that some people wouldn't argue against this type of class on these terms.

~Raithere
 
Yeah that's what I meant. They wouldn't be preaching but it's almost a 100% probability that someone would think that they are.

Plus, educating about religions would likely lower the amount of racism in the US at least as people began to understand how many religions are alike (except for cannabalism at least).
 
Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing?

and what happend to freedom of speach or whatever?, freedom to learn about stuff?
 
Although I don't want to sound like the "America is a Christian Nation" shouters of the Religious Right, the teaching of what religion has done to influence world history in general and in particular instances (Muhammad and the expansion of the Caliphate, Joan of Arc, Henry VIII, anti-Semitism, and the stuff happening in the Middle East these days, for five excellent examples) should absolutely be part of a balanced curriculum. And it is in no way presenting any particular view as "established" or even "recommended" so it does not fall afoul of the First Amendment prohibition (or the 14th Amendment extension of that right of U.S. citizens as against state enforcement).

There is always a danger of letting personal ideology overpower a balanced presentation, but so long as the course attempts to teach simply from a historical perspective with a brief overview on major tenants of the faiths then I don't see any harm in it. Additionally, the world might be a much more peaceful place if people had a handle on what motivates others who believe differently than they.

Peace.
 
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