Religion and the Government

N

night

Science Man Extrodinaire
Registered Senior Member
Most likely many of you have heard of the "Separation between chuch and state"(United States, for all of you...non american peoples) and because of this, the christian man I am, I am not allowed to pray ion school without horrible coments for teachers and principles. However I also have a jewish teacher and he is allowed to wear a yamaca and pray in his classroom. (As most of you don't know I like praying because it helps me to calm down and feel...replenished) Is this illegal? Should I talk to my pricipal about it? What should I do. And what are your guy's opinion on the "Separation between chuch and state"?

Night...My name is Joe btw, I used night cuz Joe was already taken...NE one know how I can Change it, w/o deletuing my current account??

Joe
 
G'Day Joe :)

Most likely many of you have heard of the "Separation between chuch and state"(United States, for all of you...non american peoples) and because of this, the christian man I am, I am not allowed to pray ion school without horrible coments for teachers and principles. However I also have a jewish teacher and he is allowed to wear a yamaca and pray in his classroom.
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I have never been prevented from praying at any time. People do not need to know i am praying. In fact Jesus told us how to pray.



Matthew 6
5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

Jesus told His followers not to pray in public. He told them to pray in private. In secret. Our prayers to God are our communication to God not a public performance.

And we do not need to make a pose, with knees on the ground. What is the point of making a display of humility when we are in rebellion against the expressed teachings of our Lord and Savior?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
night said:
Most likely many of you have heard of the "Separation between chuch and state"(United States, for all of you...non american peoples) and because of this, the christian man I am, I am not allowed to pray ion school without horrible coments for teachers and principles. However I also have a jewish teacher and he is allowed to wear a yamaca and pray in his classroom. (As most of you don't know I like praying because it helps me to calm down and feel...replenished) Is this illegal? Should I talk to my pricipal about it? What should I do. And what are your guy's opinion on the "Separation between chuch and state"?

Night...My name is Joe btw, I used night cuz Joe was already taken...NE one know how I can Change it, w/o deletuing my current account??

Joe
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*************
M*W: How would anyone know you are praying if you keep it to yourself and be discreet about it? I see no problem with a Jewish man wearing a yalmuka when even movie stars are wearing crosses as fashion. Personally, I am offended by those wearing religious jewelry as a fashion statement. I don't understand why anyone would want to wear a cross or crucifix. They might as well be wearing a noose or a gas chamber or electric chair. In this day and time, why not wear a hypodermic needle denoting lethal injection?

The Catholics say they wear the crucifix as a reminder that Jesus died for them. The Protestants wear a plain cross denoting that Jesus rose for them. With all the controversy surrounding the truth about Jesus' last days, why not wear one big question mark?

As an atheist, I say do whatever you're comfortable with as long as you don't offend others. If Jesus really lived as a human being, and if he were god, he would be offended by all the Christian jewelry that's out there. In fact, he'd be wearing a yalmuka.
 
You just want to feel oppressed like your hero. In fact this country couldn't be much more Christian-friendly.
 
night said:
Most likely many of you have heard of the "Separation between chuch and state"(United States, for all of you...non american peoples) and because of this, the christian man I am, I am not allowed to pray ion school without horrible coments for teachers and principles. However I also have a jewish teacher and he is allowed to wear a yamaca and pray in his classroom. (As most of you don't know I like praying because it helps me to calm down and feel...replenished) Is this illegal? Should I talk to my pricipal about it? What should I do. And what are your guy's opinion on the "Separation between chuch and state"?

Night...My name is Joe btw, I used night cuz Joe was already taken...NE one know how I can Change it, w/o deletuing my current account??

Joe
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I agree with Adstar. Now I believe you just wanted to discuss Why we cant pray and why Bibles arent allowed. I will be honest i go to a Christian Private school so I dont have that problem, praise God. If you want to talk about the Seperation of Church and State just go ahead and say what you think. But if you really just wanted help, Adstar covered it I believe. But I am all for talking about this subject. So go ahead.
His Son,
~Warrior61 ><>
 
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Medicine Woman said:
*************
M*W: How would anyone know you are praying if you keep it to yourself and be discreet about it? I see no problem with a Jewish man wearing a yalmuka when even movie stars are wearing crosses as fashion. Personally, I am offended by those wearing religious jewelry as a fashion statement. I don't understand why anyone would want to wear a cross or crucifix. They might as well be wearing a noose or a gas chamber or electric chair. In this day and time, why not wear a hypodermic needle denoting lethal injection?

The Catholics say they wear the crucifix as a reminder that Jesus died for them. The Protestants wear a plain cross denoting that Jesus rose for them. With all the controversy surrounding the truth about Jesus' last days, why not wear one big question mark?

As an atheist, I say do whatever you're comfortable with as long as you don't offend others. If Jesus really lived as a human being, and if he were god, he would be offended by all the Christian jewelry that's out there. In fact, he'd be wearing a yalmuka.
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I mention to someone just the other day how we wear crosses and that it is just like wearing an electric chair. We said the same thing, you just said it better. But I still wear one sometimes. I also make my on necklaces(it is the fashion for teens these days). My jewlrey means somethin though. For instance I have this one necklace that I love. It has red and white beads with a white shark tooth on it. Now the color of blood is red. The color associated with Holiness and Righteousness is white. Well the red beads remind me that the Blood of my savior washes me clean, or makes me Holy and puts me in right standing with God. Now you know how aweful crucifixion was in those days. It brought shame and misery to the one receiving punishment. IT WAS AWEFUL!!! It reminds us what Christ did for us. I dont see a problem with it. I also dont understand how it offends you? If you think it is rediculous and that the ones who wear it are ignorant why do you let what and ignorant persons actions take up space in your mind and take up time that could be spent doing something else?
His Son,
~Warrior61 ><>
 
spidergoat said:
You just want to feel oppressed like your hero. In fact this country couldn't be much more Christian-friendly.
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K
His Son,
~Warrior61 ><>
 
It seems many people are confused about prayer in schools.
It is not against the law to pray any where at any time in this country.
It is the misunderstanding of this by Christians that, I think, is what causes a lot of people's problems with the concept of "Seperation of Church and State" issues.
What is not legal is leading a class in prayer.
It would be against the law, for example, for the teacher to start the day by asking the class to pray along with him/her in the way they currently recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

The reason things are (and SHOULD BE) like this is not to oppress people or religions, but precicely the opposite.
By a school official laeding a class in prayer, those children who are not of that religion (or any religion) are being left out and effectively having THEIR beliefs oppressed.
Allowing school sponsored prayer steps on freedom of religion.

You can pray between every class if you wish.
You can likely even start a "Young Christians Club" that meets in the school, if you wish, but some school boards might be afraid of that, because it can be done AFTER school and be entirely unaffiliated with the school.
When you start congregating in the school during school time to practive religion, you start stepping on some gray lines.

Point is, however, NO ONE has the legal right tell you that you can not pray in school at all.
If they do, call the ACLU.
 
one raven already said what I intended to post.

The whole "separation of church and state" thing has nothing to do with banning or preventing students or teachers from praying in schools; carrying bibles/torahs/whatever; wearing crosses/yarmulkes/pentacles; etc.

It has to do with preventing the school officials from leading or instructing prayer or religious doctrines. It has to do with preventing the establishment of a state sanctioned religion in public schools or any public institution.
 
night said:
Most likely many of you have heard of the "Separation between chuch and state"(United States, for all of you...non american peoples) and because of this, the christian man I am, I am not allowed to pray ion school without horrible coments for teachers and principles. However I also have a jewish teacher and he is allowed to wear a yamaca and pray in his classroom. (As most of you don't know I like praying because it helps me to calm down and feel...replenished) Is this illegal? Should I talk to my pricipal about it? What should I do. And what are your guy's opinion on the "Separation between chuch and state"?
Click to expand...
Personally, I believe that the government should not be involved in religion AT ALL, i.e have no state-sanctioned religon, revoke the tax-exempt status of churches and the like (this isn't the fucking middle ages anymore, people!), and etc.
I also believe that people should be allowed to pray in school, to whatever deity they believe in, just not in class. Hallways, fine, as long as you don't waste too much time inbetween classes, lunch, whatever. Just as long as the school administration doesn't force it on people.
I believe that the nation should go back to the principles of the Enlightenment, to the glory of it's first fourty years, of the Great Republic it once was. In this case, going back would be progressive, methinks.
;)
 
The laws of physics are once again broken. I agree with Hapsburg.
We need to stop doing this, man.
 
night said:
Most likely many of you have heard of the "Separation between chuch and state"(United States, for all of you...non american peoples) and because of this, the christian man I am, I am not allowed to pray ion school without horrible coments for teachers and principles. However I also have a jewish teacher and he is allowed to wear a yamaca and pray in his classroom. (As most of you don't know I like praying because it helps me to calm down and feel...replenished) Is this illegal? Should I talk to my pricipal about it? What should I do. And what are your guy's opinion on the "Separation between chuch and state"?

Night...My name is Joe btw, I used night cuz Joe was already taken...NE one know how I can Change it, w/o deletuing my current account??

Joe
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i think that if you are having a problem praying because your teachers and principals are giving you a hard time about it then there is one of two unmentioned factors in play here:

1. you pray in a way that causes disruption to a class that is in session

or

2. your teachers and principals are unnecessarily biased against your choice of religion and are united in persecuting you for it

if its the first one, then you deserve it.
if its the second one, which i think is unlikely, then i would make a formal accusation with the superintendent of your school or a member of the schools board of education. make sure you have proof that this is happening, and then maybe some disciplinary action can be taken against these people. the seperation of church and state is established to protect freedom of religion, not destroy it. this means that you are free to pray and speak about religion in a respectful and unrestrained way within reason in both schools and government offices.
 
night said:
Most likely many of you have heard of the "Separation between chuch and state"(United States, for all of you...non american peoples) and because of this, the christian man I am, I am not allowed to pray ion school without horrible coments for teachers and principles. However I also have a jewish teacher and he is allowed to wear a yamaca and pray in his classroom. (As most of you don't know I like praying because it helps me to calm down and feel...replenished) Is this illegal? Should I talk to my pricipal about it? What should I do. And what are your guy's opinion on the "Separation between chuch and state"?

Night...My name is Joe btw, I used night cuz Joe was already taken...NE one know how I can Change it, w/o deletuing my current account??

Joe
Click to expand...

well joe, read good old church history. There are many good reasons why most countries want church and state seperate.

Something about staining the ground red. Terribly hard to wash off.
 
well i believe in separation of church and state because if there was one religion that reigned over the U.S. then there would be a lot of discrimination (more that there already is) against people of a different religion. also a lot of people that i've encounterd quoted the thing about people having inneliable rights given to the by "their" creator and saying that that is to mean the christian god, which i strongly disagree as it says "their creator" not trhe creator jesus christ nor the christian god nor any other specific gods. i interprit this as meaning if you believe in zeus or whatever other god or gods it means whatever you believe created you. and that if you are atheist then they are you natural rights to live and so on. Also i am upset at bill o'reilly saing on T.V. that the "atheist agenda" as he puts it and many others do, are trying to demoralize America, and that really p****d me off. What about the Christian agenda to take over the gorvernment and eventually revoke many freedoms that we have now like freedom of religion (which many want to convert all to christianity) and abortion (which i only agree with if the partners used protectin and so on and failed and resulted in pregnancy, i think they should have the right ot abort since they were resposible, not like those that don't take precausions and don't care if they endup pregnant(both) and just have an abortion, but you don't see me trying to take that right from anyone instead of minding my own business) and who know what else.
 
They are all evangelist nutters in the US, i think you only had one Roman catholic president: J F Kennnedy and they had him shot LOL
 
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