Religion and Psychology

[Leo Volont]

Religion and Psychology

Atheism that resides only in the Intellect will ultimately fail because it can sink no deep roots into the wellsprings of Human Psychology. Yes, there has been an informal Philosophical Assumption, since the days of Voltaire and Locke, that humans can be trained by education to be entirely intellectual – to live only in the Head, and then only upon the surface. But looking around, we can conclude that they must have been mistaken, as it just never caught on.

But does Religion have a better chance? Well, look at the Psychological Archetypes. Much in our Psychologies – the Archetypes and Dream Motifs – follow along with a Pre-Christian Pagan library of Characters and Symbols, but to a Civilized end no less. Greece, Rome, and Babylon, after all, were Civilizations. It was just one of those many things that made me suspect Paul of being the Antichrist, that he was able to direct Christianity outside the boundaries of Psychological Significance. If it were True then why would it not have any Psychological Parallels. Truth cannot stand in stark isolation to everything else, but Falsehood can.

This is one Area where Marian Catholicism was able to undo much of the Pauline Damage. The Blessed Virgin is able to slip in seamlessly into much of our Mythologies and Psychologies. Afterall, is there really a difference between Mary the Virgin and Diana the Virgin? The One is B.C. and the other is A.D. But both are Moral Civilizers.

 

[James R]

Atheism that resides only in the Intellect will ultimately fail because it can sink no deep roots into the wellsprings of Human Psychology.

What is "deeper", according to you?

Yes, there has been an informal Philosophical Assumption, since the days of Voltaire and Locke, that humans can be trained by education to be entirely intellectual – to live only in the Head, and then only upon the surface.

I disagree. Why do you think that?

It was just one of those many things that made me suspect Paul of being the Antichrist, that he was able to direct Christianity outside the boundaries of Psychological Significance.

What are the boundaries of psychological significance?

The Blessed Virgin is able to slip in seamlessly into much of our Mythologies and Psychologies. Afterall, is there really a difference between Mary the Virgin and Diana the Virgin? The One is B.C. and the other is A.D. But both are Moral Civilizers.

Mickey Mouse is a good wholesome role model too.

 

[Leo Volont]

Carl Jung was famous for his 'research' regarding Psychological Archetypes. But the research was plagued by the problem of establishing controls. In an educated Society it was virtually impossible to find subjects that had not be exposed to Objective Instances of Cultural Psychological Archetypes. The Archetypes would filter into the Arts and become part of people's daily lives. So when a person would have an "Archetypical" Dream or Vision, it could be virtually impossible to assign the cause exclusively to the Subconscious, Superconsious, or Collective Mind.

Jung got around the problem by falsifying his data. With some of his Test Subjects, here deleted all references to their educations and cultural experiences and presented them as though they were intellectual vacuums straight off of isolated farms from houses without bookshelves.

It makes him a liar, but we should understand -- it is a rough world for those Acedemics. You know what they say -- "Publish or perish".

However, I still think there was some inherent Truth in what Jung was saying, even if he had some problems "proving" it. Yes, I always had something of a Culturally Cosmopolitan Education, but my Dream Symbols and Characters never seemed to have much respect for whatever my present intellectual fixation was at the time. While Studying Buddhism, I dreamt in Greek Mythological Terms, and then while studying Yoga, I had dreams of Christian and Marian significance.

 

[mis-t-highs]

when I saw this thread, I thought there has to be a mistake.
Leo the lunatic, trying to talk about Psychology.
but then I thought, it is something you should know a lot about, being delusional that is.

Atheism that resides only in the Intellect will ultimately fail because it can sink no deep roots into the wellsprings of Human Psychology. But looking around, we can conclude that they must have been mistaken, as it just never caught on

utter rubbish, you could not hold a candle to an athiest, they have more humanity in there little finger, then you've had in you whole life. athiesm starts with reason, as you see the light, and you see how nasty religion is and our cruel and calous god is.
atheism resides in the heart.
and oh yes, it has caught on, people are much wiser now, and get wiser everyday.
it's only a matter of time, before man no longer follows like a sheep, a non existent entity.

 

[duendy]

LEo......"is there really a difference between Mary the virgin and Diana the Virgin"

oh, yeah!......'virgin' in its orginal meaning means a woman of independent means. no married, and sexually independent. NOT its judic-christian interpretation of 'celibate' as was their character of the Virgin Mary.
Diana comes from pagan lore where the original meaning of virgin comes from

what the patriarchs did was split woman, and keep the docile, husband serving good-mother, Eve, Mary, etc, and demonize the wilder aspect of woman, encapsulated in the Hebrews demonzed mythic character, Lilith

James R, asks "what is deeper..."?

can i ask you James, how do YOU define deep?

 

[Godless]

when I saw this thread, I thought there has to be a mistake.
Leo the lunatic, trying to talk about Psychology.

He's a patient @ $150.00ph. You would expect he's getting better!.

Godless.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Religion and Psychology

Atheism that resides only in the Intellect will ultimately fail because it can sink no deep roots into the wellsprings of Human Psychology.

Anthing that exists only in the intellect will ultimately fail. That's why
it's important to turn the 'potential' into 'kenetic' throughout one's life.
Practicing the concept of 'don't accept claims without supporting evidence'
will only make you better at it and a clearer thinker.

 

[Leo Volont]

Anthing that exists only in the intellect will ultimately fail. That's why
it's important to turn the 'potential' into 'kenetic' throughout one's life.
Practicing the concept of 'don't accept claims without supporting evidence'
will only make you better at it and a clearer thinker.

Crunchy, you would have people ignore their own minds because they can't verify the Truth of their own Visions. That is Alienation from Self.

What a boring old man you will become.

 

[mustafhakofi]

What a boring old man you will become.

that as maybe, but he wont be a lunatic.
rather a little boring, than a lot psycho.

 

[Leo Volont]

that as maybe, but he wont be a lunatic.
rather a little boring, than a lot psycho.

Why?

You're an Atheist. So nothing matters, right? Well, being a lunatic is at least interesting. As a materialist, would you not concede that being interesting is better then not being interesting?

Look at what happened to the Existentialist Movement. They so isolated themselves from Spirituality that the meaninglessness of Life became overwhelming. Practically en mass they all committed suicide. That won't happen to me, because I have plenty of interesting stuff happening.

 

[Jubatus]

You're an Atheist. So nothing matters, right?

An atheist is subjective towards whether something matters.

Look at what happened to the Existentialist Movement. They so isolated themselves from Spirituality that the meaninglessness of Life became overwhelming. Practically en mass they all committed suicide. That won't happen to me, because I have plenty of interesting stuff happening.

It won't happen to you, because you delude yourself, keeping yourself ignorant out of fear of oblivion, and your religion is the symptom. And you faithfully hold to the dogma that suicide is wrong, again showing your irrational fear of not being.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Crunchy, you would have people ignore their own minds because they can't verify the Truth of their own Visions. That is Alienation from Self.

What a boring old man you will become.

Leo,

What the mind produces sometimes (especially in dreams) can be fabulous
fantastic worlds. Such profound experiences in the mind make for great
stories to tell other people. They are simply cool and to some degree an
expession of creativity... but it is fiction nonetheless.

I semi-recently had a dream where I was a dragon on roller blades and was
skating along a coastal highway. There were really complex image formations
in the pre-dusk sky, spectacular sounds, a few light fluffy clouds between
the ground and the sky (some touching the ground)... it was really cool and
completely fiction. In other dreams I have experienced different realities,
different physical laws, profound sights / sounds / sensations... many things
that even our best special effects movie makers have not even scratched the
surface of. I don't deny I have had the experiences, and with a lifetime of
them they no doubt have an influence on who I am... but as strong as that
influence is on my behaviors and competencies, I know that the experiences
are simply generated by my own mind and to accept them as 'truth' would be
nothing more than a self-chosen cognitive handicap.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Why?

You're an Atheist. So nothing matters, right?

'Athiests' care about things just as any other human does. Interpretation
of value, resourcefulness, substitution, and maximization all feed into what
'matters' to humans.

 

[Cris]

Leo,

You're an Atheist. So nothing matters, right?

I have no belief in your myths but it doesn’t follow that nothing matters. In my case I consider life the most precious commodity imaginable since it is very short and priceless and is all I have. Unlike the religionist such as yourself who considers life a transitory period and relatively unimportant compared to the eternity in your mythical afterlife.

 

[Godless]

You're an Atheist. So nothing matters, right?

See!! this defines your ignorance. To an atheist everything matters!!. Because he/she knows that they have one life to live, one that lives for her-himself, and that prayers, wishing, does not solve problems. It is to the theist, that seemingly nothing matters since you belief dictates another form of existence after death?. What a rediculous notion, you look forward to die, so you can be in heaven. If you kill someone, you are not held responsible, god-made you do it, satan influenced you, you don't take responsibilities for your own actions. An atheist knows that it's his actions that he/she has to account for.

Godless.

 

[the preacher]

and you did extremely well, Godless.
but I fear it's wasted, on a moron.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

and you did extremely well, Godless.
but I fear it's wasted, on a moron.

Man you guys are Brutal. I know that some people have been influenced
negatively by some of Leo's personal remarks over various threads; however,
I would challanenge anyone to step up and Lead a little with the golden rule.
Reinforce the desired behavior rather than condemn the undesired.

 

[Cris]

Godless,

OOOOOOOPS I hit the send button twice. Damn I quess I wanted to drive the point.

Y'know ya can delete your own posts if you want - unless u really did mean 2 drive the point of course.

 

[Godless]

Man you guys are Brutal.

G!! your new. It's been kind of calm around here lately. Sci-forums is open to all creeds however there was an overwelming population of atheists here a bit back, and then it was really hell for those poor believer folkes. Believe me it's been real calm.

We've had many messiah types around here. Loon, Tony1, Wandarer (though this guy was an atheist) he preached his Nietzsche philosophy in an authoritive manner. And then there's Leo another one heading on the path to be remembered around here as some nut who thinks is better than everyone else, because of his weird dreams with angels.

Godless.

 

[SkippingStones]

I would challenge anyone to step up and Lead a little with the golden rule.

We would all do well to remember those words and accept the challenge, atheists included, Godless. :m: