Refusing Destiny

[Sufi]

When we think there is a conflict between having a 'free will' and having a destiny, we are in fact seeing a conflict between our personal achievements and the idea of a separate God that rules the world from outside.

Therefore, when we refuse "destiny," we are in fact refusing the idea of a "separate god" that ordaines the future for us.

So, what do you think?

 

[fadeaway humper]

I think that's pretty obvious.

Yep, that's about the whole amount of my contribution to this thread.

 

[robtex]

More important is the birth of causes that have a commuinity destiny that create a large amount of violence in the world. Take for example John O Keefe. He was the founder of the modern abortion movement. He fell upon the movement feeling he was called upon by God after his older brother Ryan was killed in Vietnam. Feeling that he had a calling to save lives (possibly in light of his brother's death which he admittly said pushed him into action) started his protests. It became his destiny.

I want to point out here that John was a pacifist and the modern day killing of abortion doctors has no place in his orginal plan he just would do sit ins at clinics until he was arrested. He was arrested dozens of times while professing his religion, which was catholic and saying God is against abortion as it is murder.

Other Christians chimed in and saw it as a communial destiny. By the time it got to Randall Terry (who is still active in the movement today I believe??), the protests were more physcial but not deadly. He is the one who pushed along the modern paradign of mass protest where they crawl until they get touched by a law enforcement officer than stop until touches starts than crawl again when not touched.

He was a recovering drug addict who found God and thought he had a destiny in life and found the anti-abortion movement. I don't know the rest of the guys stories but their version of the destiny got heavier and heavier until they started killing doctors and blowing up clinics.

I read about them years ago in a book called "wrath of angels" ..i can find the author ..google says risen and thomas...and it was funny that all of them felt God had told them to stop abortion and they adopted a communinal destiny.

I would imagine (but am out of touch with the culture) that communial destinies are a large part of the motivation for a lot of the middle eastern violence.

 

[what768]

When we think there is a conflict between having a 'free will' and having a destiny, we are in fact seeing a conflict between our personal achievements and the idea of a separate God that rules the world from outside.

Therefore, when we refuse "destiny," we are in fact refusing the idea of a "separate god" that ordaines the future for us.

So, what do you think?

I feel that we're about as free as a doG with a leash around its neck. Free to do anything, but the owner still has the control, and we can't escape some things, like death. We think we have free will because we're not aware of the destiny (the dogs owner).

But God is not outside, right? Isn't he within? Then again, he is... "everything" so it's impossible to talk about it... It feels like talking about nothingness... Certainly only he who is from God can talk about God... we're just talking about something that we see as God, but it is not the real God, only real for us... we're just talking about ourselves... but even Jesus did that... only that he really know himself... he knew he was goD.

 

[Sufi]

I feel that we're about as free as a doG with a leash around its neck. Free to do anything, but the owner still has the control, and we can't escape some things, like death. We think we have free will because we're not aware of the destiny (the dogs owner).

But God is not outside, right? Isn't he within? Then again, he is... "everything" so it's impossible to talk about it... It feels like talking about nothingness... Certainly only he who is from God can talk about God... we're just talking about something that we see as God, but it is not the real God, only real for us... we're just talking about ourselves... but even Jesus did that... only that he really know himself... he knew he was goD.

... he knew THERE WAS NONE BUT THE ONE ALONE.

"To comprehend the incomprehensibility of Allah is to comprehend Allah"
--Abu Bakr (close companion of Mohammed pbuh.)

 

[what768]

... he knew THERE WAS NONE BUT THE ONE ALONE.

ye3.. that's what I said, right. (hehe)

"To comprehend the incomprehensibility of Allah is to comprehend Allah"
--Abu Bakr (close companion of Mohammed pbuh.)

Agree.

 

[Q25]

When we think there is a conflict between having a 'free will' and having a destiny, we are in fact seeing a conflict between our personal achievements and the idea of a separate God that rules the world from outside.

Therefore, when we refuse "destiny," we are in fact refusing the idea of a "separate god" that ordaines the future for us.

if theres god thats omnipotent/present/knowing/etc than you would obviously have no free will,would you?
not if God creates/controls everything and knows the future.

only without such god you can have free will

www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/index.html

 

[Q25]

We think we have free will because we're not aware of the destiny (the dogs owner).

so whats the use of praying,if god already decided your destiny?

But God is not outside, right? Isn't he within? Then again, he is... "everything"

is he Satan also then?

.. Certainly only he who is from God can talk about God...

if God made all wouldnt we all be from God?

 

[Sufi]

if theres god thats omnipotent/present/knowing/etc than you would obviously have no free will,would you?
not if God creates/controls everything and knows the future.

only without such god you can have free will

www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/index.html

Yes.

A separate God --> many free wills. (no destiny)
the Omnipotent One --> no separate free will, only "the Will" alone. (all is destined already)

thanks for the url.

 

[Sufi]

so whats the use of praying,if god already decided your destiny?

We pray as an effect, a consequence of our destiny, not against our destiny. If something is in your destiny, you make the necessary preparations for it. This is the system that operates. For instance, if you are going to get healed of your illness, you take the necessarty pills. But you take the pills, if you were destined to do so.. If remaining ill is in your destiny, then you do not.

is he Satan also then?

You still have an image of separate god in your mind while asking such a question. You should forget about the separate god.

The difference between satan and other servants of the One within, is in the combination of the meanings that is revealed thorugh them. Satan also serves the purpose for which it was created. That is its servitude.

if God made all wouldnt we all be from God?

That makes you aware of the universal consciousness and the universal power within yourself. Find them.