Re: "You're just not advanced enough to understand this!"

W

wynn

˙
Valued Senior Member
One argument that people who are into spirituality/religion often directly and indirectly make against the people they are talking to is

"You're just not advanced enough to understand this!"

Which can, in fact, be true. But if it is, the person who isn't advanced enough can't do much about it at the time.


What are some productive, healthy responses to
"You're just not advanced enough to understand this!"
- ?
 
excuse me? that's been YOUR argument, and in response to ideas that are not advanced, but rather common sense.
 
Well, God is either only seeking the company of highly intelligent and insightful people, or it ultimately doesn't matter whether or not you can grasp the subtleties of more advanced spiritual ideas so long as you genuinely want to do the right thing by him. If the former is true, it's quite problematic don't you think?
 
What are some productive, healthy responses to
"You're just not advanced enough to understand this!"
- ?
Click to expand...

"Then what daily practice should I adopt to achieve that understanding?"

I mean, I think most, if not all religions, have ritual ways to approach deity that you keep doing the same way...every day. A chant, a motion, a movement, a type of incense, or all the above...

Kinda reminds you of hypnosis, doesn't it? It ought to.

You are altering your state of consciousness from that of the daily, aware state into one in which Deity can communicate to you...and this is learned like any other physical skill.
Because, even though it does occur in the brain, altering one's consciousness has to be learned through rigorous daily practice...

Just as you would not expect to do Martial arts like a black belt without a few years of pretty-much daily drill, you can't expect to have a deep connection with Deity without a few years of pretty-much daily work.

I mean, I know that's part of my problem, I'm freaking lazy, and I'm working on it...if I meditate twice daily for a mere ten minutes, I do a lot better anyway...and if I do Magick...I feel Presence. Whichever one(s) I'm talking to.

You never did define your misery for me in your other thread. It might be useful here...it's nature, what causes it, why you seek a spiritual answer for it.
If you think telling me thiese things will not be helpful, please say so.
 
chimpkin said:
"Then what daily practice should I adopt to achieve that understanding?"

I mean, I think most, if not all religions, have ritual ways to approach deity that you keep doing the same way...every day. A chant, a motion, a movement, a type of incense, or all the above...

Kinda reminds you of hypnosis, doesn't it? It ought to.

You are altering your state of consciousness from that of the daily, aware state into one in which Deity can communicate to you...and this is learned like any other physical skill.
Because, even though it does occur in the brain, altering one's consciousness has to be learned through rigorous daily practice...

Just as you would not expect to do Martial arts like a black belt without a few years of pretty-much daily drill, you can't expect to have a deep connection with Deity without a few years of pretty-much daily work.

I mean, I know that's part of my problem, I'm freaking lazy, and I'm working on it...if I meditate twice daily for a mere ten minutes, I do a lot better anyway...and if I do Magick...I feel Presence. Whichever one(s) I'm talking to.

You never did define your misery for me in your other thread. It might be useful here...it's nature, what causes it, why you seek a spiritual answer for it.
If you think telling me thiese things will not be helpful, please say so.
Click to expand...

i think i agree with your initial statement here, but i'm confused about what these practices are supposed to accomplish exactly. are they supposed to be some type of catalyst to experiencing god, or are they supposed to somehow make it easier on god to get through to you?

because i've never gotten the impression that god needs us to make it easier for him in any way. i mean come on, it's god we're talking about. i've always gotten the impression that all he needs from us is our sincere desire for the experience.
 
Lori_7 said:
i mean come on, it's god we're talking about. i've always gotten the impression that all he needs from us is our sincere desire for the experience.
Click to expand...

And so it goes on and on, and I recommend ignoring this Invisibility Disorder, near or after the first encounter when it is seen that the strong belief is impenetrable. If they are peaceful I will always set them free each time, though their hearts are bound in chains. If not peaceful, when person to person, their tone will be returned to sender, the only language they understand, it also being one that they can’t complain about, while, one larger scales, they will often meet a bloody end, often even at the hands of other strong and contrary religious believers.
 
SciWriter said:
And so it goes on and on, and I recommend ignoring this Invisibility Disorder, near or after the first encounter when it is seen that the strong belief is impenetrable. If they are peaceful I will always set them free each time, though their hearts are bound in chains. If not peaceful, when person to person, their tone will be returned to sender, the only language they understand, it also being one that they can’t complain about, while, one larger scales, they will often meet a bloody end, often even at the hands of other strong and contrary religious believers.
Click to expand...

:wtf:
 
are they supposed to be some type of catalyst to experiencing god, or are they supposed to somehow make it easier on god to get through to you?
Click to expand...
Yes.;)

Both...they shut your chattering brain up, so you can hear Deity better, and sometimes, the ritual altering of consciousness makes you realize "Oh."

And I wish I could put that "Oh," into better words.

I think of it as analogous to tuning an FM radio? Well, roughly...sorta...

That spiritual practice adjusts your brain so that it can receive the signal eventually. Shuts your brain up.
These daily ritual practices also have a lot of practical utility, so it's not like it's going to hurt you anyway.:shrug:
 
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Signal said:
One argument that people who are into spirituality/religion often directly and indirectly make against the people they are talking to is

"You're just not advanced enough to understand this!"

Which can, in fact, be true. But if it is, the person who isn't advanced enough can't do much about it at the time.


What are some productive, healthy responses to
"You're just not advanced enough to understand this!"
- ?
Click to expand...

Respond with a question.

How does one become advanced enough to understand this?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Lori_7 said:
:wtf:
Click to expand...

There are theists whose beliefs in the Invisible have become so deeply grooved and wired that they have become unchangeable, pervading their every outlook and investigation, and we have seen that unreachable state in life and on forums. And they want all of us to want what they want. Since they cannot be dealt with, they become bypassed and ignored. That they cannot do otherwise is a fact of the human condition, no matter how much we think they should, for it is shown.

One could try to undo their stance by argument until one is blue in the face, but if one is open to learning then one’s wisdom notes the futility of it. This is not to say that one cannot still engage for other reasons, such as to reach other readers that are not so immune, to sharpen one’s arguments for themselves, or to further develop a cosmology.
 
SciWriter said:
There are theists whose beliefs in the Invisible have become so deeply grooved and wired that they have become unchangeable, pervading their every outlook and investigation, and we have seen that unreachable state in life and on forums. And they want all of us to want what they want. Since they cannot be dealt with, they become bypassed and ignored. That they cannot do otherwise is a fact of the human condition, no matter how much we think they should, for it is shown.

One could try to undo their stance by argument until one is blue in the face, but if one is open to learning then one’s wisdom notes the futility of it. This is not to say that one cannot still engage for other reasons, such as to reach other readers that are not so immune, to sharpen one’s arguments for themselves, or to further develop a cosmology.
Click to expand...

should i interpret this as "you're discouraged because you can't convert me"?
 
Adstar said:
Respond with a question.

How does one become advanced enough to understand this?
Click to expand...

chimpkin said:
"Then what daily practice should I adopt to achieve that understanding?"
Click to expand...

Someone dismisses you with "You're just not advanced enough to understand this!"
- and you reply to this person with genuine goodwill and willingness to learn?

Such a reply seems like self-victimization to me, an act of being despised into learning, and from those who despise you.

Would someone who truly is spiritually superior, advanced, dismiss a person with "You're just not advanced enough to understand this!" -?
I think not. So I also don't see a reason to ask them about how I can become spiritually advanced.


(I have nothing personal against either of you, I am just exploring the topic. Like I said, I'm looking for a productive response for something that is a statement of dimissal and contempt.)
 
Lori_7 said:
i've always gotten the impression that all he needs from us is our sincere desire for the experience.
Click to expand...

And I am sure that since you are such a wonderful person, you can come up with such a sincere desire at will, and then talk about it on internet forums in great length!!

:eek:
 
Signal said:
And I am sure that since you are such a wonderful person, you can come up with such a sincere desire at will, and then talk about it on internet forums in great length!!

:eek:
Click to expand...

it doesn't have anything to do with me being a "wonderful person". are you saying only wonderful people can have sincere desires?
 
Signal said:
I am saying that you brag too much to be taken seriously any longer!
Click to expand...

I'm not bragging. You're the one with the inferiority complex.

And btw you whine too much to be taken seriously anymore.
 
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