Rationalize God taking your loved ones . . .

[Athelwulf]

This is directed at the religious folk at SciForums.

Please tell me why any benevolant higher power would be justified in taking away from you someone that you love dearly, someone that is a major component of your world, someone that you could not live without.

 

[Jenyar]

God does not need to be justified -- we are at His mercy. But we must also remember that the world we live is often the world God wishes to save us from. It is a world that takes away loved ones and less loved ones indiscriminately, whether you cared about them or not. That we still care, that we still form such close relationships even while we know before our very souls that they will one day die, is what God has given us -- it is the love God justifies. Death cannot be justified, only lamented.

A benevolent Higher power makes it possible for us to endure death -- our own, and others' -- for a little while, the way we can endure even the worst disappointment or suffering if we have hope for healing afterwards.

People ask why we should be saved from death, why eternal life should be so desireable. But when they say this it is often only their own lives they think about, their own death. It is when we care what happens to those we love, that we become aware how much we need God. And when we feel disappointment the worst.

We might suffer more if we have hope, such as the hope that God will protect us from the ravages of life or death -- but if we have hope only for this life, we are only fooling ourselves to say we have faith, and then we are disappointed the most at death. To really have hope in God, is to have hope in spite of death, to know death has been defeated. He is our only certainty that even death will separate us from our loved ones.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.​

 

[patcho]

Good answer Jenyar!

There are a great many books out there that explain these very well, if you're actually interested, as a lot of people say they are, but are really not, you would do well to read some.

For instance, 'When God doesn't make sense' by Dr. James Dobson is a good one.

 

[Jenyar]

Disappointment with God and Where Is God When it Hurts? - Philip Yancey.

 

[Athelwulf]

God does not need to be justified -- we are at His mercy.

If I were "at His mercy", I'd sure like His actions to be just.

But we must also remember that the world we live is often the world God wishes to save us from.

He could've not made such a world in the first place. He could also have made it so we didn't have to be "saved" from it.

 

[Lori_7]

Our spirits are eternal. An eternal life is what He has created for us and what He wants for us. To experience the loss of death teaches us why He desires us to choose an eternal life...one without sin. Sin kills, and because of it, He would lose those that He loves, just like we lose those that we love. That something so immeasurably valuable...love. Just know that this world is not all that there is, and take comfort in that.

Love,

Lori

 

[Bells]

Our spirits are eternal. An eternal life is what He has created for us and what He wants for us. To experience the loss of death teaches us why He desires us to choose an eternal life...one without sin. Sin kills, and because of it, He would lose those that He loves, just like we lose those that we love. That something so immeasurably valuable...love. Just know that this world is not all that there is, and take comfort in that.

Tell that to a parent who loses a baby who has not yet had a chance to live and to sin.

 

[Joeman]

Lori,

there is no such thing as sin. sin is our survival instinct. for example, selfishness came from the instinct for self-preservation. lust came from our instinct to multiply to ensure the survival of our specie.

Without "sin", homo sapiens would not have survived at all. Our sinful nature is actually a gift from God if God really does exist.

 

[SnakeLord]

Tell that to a parent who loses a baby who has not yet had a chance to live and to sin.

Indeed. But perhaps they'd prefer the other option, which is to tell the parent that their first son belongs to god and as a result will be taken by him without caring what the parents think of the matter. I don't know what excuse they'd use if the child was a girl, but I'm sure they'd come up with one.

Statistically speaking, (in England), 1 in 3 first time pregnancies ends in miscarriage. I guess god's claiming his property on a regular basis.

 

[Adstar]

It is a blessing indeed to die as an innocent. Those who do not yet know Good or evil are still perfect in Gods sight. I can fully understand the grief that non-believers feel upon loosing someone precious to them. But being a follower of the Messiah death has no further tragedy for me it is mearly a transition. i am eternal and so are the babies that have died, maybe i will get to play with them in eternity.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[Lori_7]

Tell that to a parent who loses a baby who has not yet had a chance to live and to sin.

Ok, sin isn't "fair" either. Yea, it's a horrible thing...that's the whole point. Bad things happen to good people all the time...why? Because of sin. People don't sin in a vacuum you know...we're all affected by it...all of us. And yet there are some wretched souls who seem to be untouchable huh? We don't see God's plan...we don't see God's judgement...that's why we are not to judge...we're not capable.

But that doesn't really matter now does it? As long as you get your animosity towards Him out with some arguement, all is well with you, yes?

Love,

Lori

 

[Q25]

It is a blessing indeed to die as an innocent.
Those who do not yet know Good or evil are still perfect in Gods sight.

really?
doesnt the bible says that you all were born in sin,
as the results of Adam & Eve's misbehavior.

 

[one_raven]

I always thought getting mad at God for the death of a loved one is, well, silly.
Grieving over the dead is a wholly selfish act.
Many times more selfish if you are a Christian.
You are sad because you no longer have this person that brought some level of joy to your life.
"But what about ME?!" is what it really amounts to.
If you are Christian, you are not only bitching about your loss, but if you believe the person is going to Heaven, then you are bitching that God took this person from this life, which, in the Christian view, does not compare to the pure joy and bliss they are feeling now in Heaven.
If you love the person, doesn't that mean you should be happy that they in a state of bliss rather than bitch that you are now alone on Earth?

I don't understand what is so horribly bad about death, anyway.
People ruin their lives worrying about when it is going to end.
I miss the people from my life that have died, but I am not angry in any way, even when they died.
I felt sorrow for those that could not deal with it well, but I felt no empathy pain for the dead. They are dead. They have no pain now. And if they have no joy now either, they do not exist to suffer from that lack of joy.

When I die, I want people to move on with their lives.
I'm gone now. Deal with it. You are bound to miss me from time to time when something reminds you of me, but don't dwell. It means nothing to me now that I'm dead, and it only hurts you.
If there IS an afterlife, I am fine (even if I could ever accept a notion of God, Hell is something that I will never be able to believe in, it's just stupid to me).
So, either I'm fine, or I do not exist to be fine or not.
Either way, let it go.

 

[Athelwulf]

I could learn to accept His actions if He took away from me someone that was suffering from a terminal illness, or was very old, or something like that. In these cases, I suppose death is better for that person. I believe that a higher power would be justified in taking that person away from their loved ones.

What I just cannot accept is when the person is perfectly healthy and is leading a relatively good life. It just doesn't seem right. It's not right! A higher power is not justified in taking away that person from their loved ones.

 

[Jenyar]

Grieving over the dead is a wholly selfish act.
...
You are sad because you no longer have this person that brought some level of joy to your life.
"But what about ME?!" is what it really amounts to.

Very, very interesting perspective.

In essence, we are blaming God for giving that person life in the first place -- for giving something that could be lost. Except, they would not be lost if they weren't the victims of sin. And neither would we.

There's something selfish about not believing in God, 'eating, drinking and being happy', and then only invoking God at a person's death -- when our happiness is affected -- as if that is the only time He ever did anything.

Jesus did not tell people, "hey, you sinned, accept your illness and your death because they represent God's 'justice' " -- He healed them, gave them life and new hope. He did not do that for this life only, but for the sake of their eternal life.

He also told them this:

Luke 13:1-5 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them - do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”​

We're not on earth for our own sake, but for the sake of others. It's ironic that the people who most represent God's love -- who are most indispensible in the world -- are the ones you blame God for taking away. Yes, we miss them; Make sure you are honest about your reason why. Was it because they were rich and powerful, or because we cared about them; because they were blessings to our life, rays of hope?

What I just cannot accept is when the person is perfectly healthy and is leading a relatively good life. It just doesn't seem right. It's not right! A higher power is not justified in taking away that person from their loved ones.

No, it isn't. And that's the point: that we are suffering under such injustice and sin. And why does God choose to suffer with us, rather than take us out of the world? (Although you blame Him when He does). Why did Jesus suffer a horrible, humiliating death, such injustice, rather than come off from the cross, and claiming his righful place? Because of those who are left: those who are without hope and imprisoned by their circumstances. Don't you see? We are to make ourselves indispensible, not so that people can blame God for our deaths when we die, but praise Him for our lives while we are with them. We don't do that by being selfish, or by blaming God. We do that by loving and caring for people, no matter who they are -- whether they are "useful" for your own personal happiness or not.

 

[Jenyar]

How else could they -- and we -- know God, while we are suffering from not knowing Him, and see Him while He is obscured by the darkness that surrounds us?

 

[Adstar]

really?
doesnt the bible says that you all were born in sin,
as the results of Adam & Eve's misbehavior.

Some interpret the bible to mean that. All humans who are born of a human mother and a human father will eventually sin. But there is a time of innocence when little ones do not know Good or Evil.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

I always thought getting mad at God for the death of a loved one is, well, silly.
Grieving over the dead is a wholly selfish act.
Many times more selfish if you are a Christian.
You are sad because you no longer have this person that brought some level of joy to your life.
"But what about ME?!" is what it really amounts to.
If you are Christian, you are not only bitching about your loss, but if you believe the person is going to Heaven, then you are bitching that God took this person from this life, which, in the Christian view, does not compare to the pure joy and bliss they are feeling now in Heaven.
If you love the person, doesn't that mean you should be happy that they in a state of bliss rather than bitch that you are now alone on Earth?

I don't understand what is so horribly bad about death, anyway.
People ruin their lives worrying about when it is going to end.
I miss the people from my life that have died, but I am not angry in any way, even when they died.

You put it bluntly but i must agree 100% with all that you have said here.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days