Rap or Crap?
- Thread starter Sauce
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After reading through these posts, people were very vague on their reasons to why rap is crap so I want to clear things up. Rap songs are repetitive ie have no melody hence no harmony either and are a repetive slur of the same minimal "bass lines" which are stretched out for the entire length of a whole song I can't believe anyone could dare compare Bach to this whoever said rap is more complex havn't a clue, should either pickup a an actual baroque CD (I reccomend Fugue in D minor by Bach as well as Paginini's 5th Caprice), learn even the most basic aspects of music with a stringed instrument to see how hard real melodies are or compare musical compositions (ie stave) with your so called superior music.
The MIDI aspect is very bad, so bad that you can produce your own hip hop style music on your playstation with games like mtv music generator with no difficulty at all and music software for pc isnt hard to get hold of if you're bothered.
The argument that all you need for a rock band is just guitarist and drums is overly simplified, there is a vast range of guitars available with different pickups creating different tones, as well as different amps, materials, effects pedals and so on. Not to mention there are 2 styles of guitarist, rythym and lead there is also the bassist. Also there is the task of mastering the instrument which could take many years to master, its not just at the flick of a switch like with synthesisers which doesn't even provide as much complexity and variation in tone and timbre. Anyone who plays guitar or any stringed instrument would know what I'm talking about. As for the potential argument that guitars can't give you as much variety as a synthesiser well MIDI guitars are available which are practically the ultimate instrument, you can't perform a harmonic, vibrato or tremelo with as much dexterity of a guitarist on a keyboard or computer for that matter.
As for all this bullshit assuming that rock is a product of white culture, well it was actually developed by bands such as Led Zeppelin, Cream, Hendrix, Rolling Stones etc who were inspired by blues artists such as Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, all 3 Kings and so forth. The blues itself originated in the Mississippi Delta and was an African American music form.
Then some genius said Shakespeare is a a talentless dick or something to that effect, well its no surprise you don't understand the works of the man who has been considered the greatest English playwrights of all time (I think he's good but overated), I guess Fast and Furious is more suited to your taste. For those who have actually studied or read any of his work (assuming you've understood the old English which is explained in the appendix) anyone can see the intricate plots he weaves within his work as well as his command of the English language, I'd recommend of his work Henry IV part 1 and 2 as well as Henry V and Julius Caesar. One last thing to note at least Shakespeare could read/speak English and Latin fluently wheras most rappers sound like they just crossed the border. As for the twat who dissed shakey for being English well you can fuck off you ignorant shite, your not typing in American are you?
As for those saying rock all sounds the same or its not doing anything new are clearly wrong, rock is definately more varied than rap, you have ska, punk, grunge, goth, emo, nu metal, heavy metal, classical metal, classic rock and so on. However I do admit rock is in kind of a slump at the moment with all this excessive emo and nu metal choking the creativity and originality of the genre but its only a phase thats passing. Well as you're not a fan of rock you wouldn't know what pushes the genre, (btw I know you can reverse the argument but my family and friends are into rap so I know whats doing well), critics loved System of A Downs recent album Mezmerise as well as Q.O.T.S.A's Songs For The Death (Lullabies wasn't as inspiring) and Foo Fighters recent release In Your Honour was well recieved. Also another thing to note is that whilst rap is big now, no one is going to be listening to it in 20 years time wheras rock has a timeless quality, sure a lot of the crappy no brainer rock will be forgotten but songs like Smells Like Teen Spirit, Smoke On The Water, A Whole Lotta Love, Ride The Lightning and Voodoo Chile will live on forever.
The MIDI aspect is very bad, so bad that you can produce your own hip hop style music on your playstation with games like mtv music generator with no difficulty at all and music software for pc isnt hard to get hold of if you're bothered.
The argument that all you need for a rock band is just guitarist and drums is overly simplified, there is a vast range of guitars available with different pickups creating different tones, as well as different amps, materials, effects pedals and so on. Not to mention there are 2 styles of guitarist, rythym and lead there is also the bassist. Also there is the task of mastering the instrument which could take many years to master, its not just at the flick of a switch like with synthesisers which doesn't even provide as much complexity and variation in tone and timbre. Anyone who plays guitar or any stringed instrument would know what I'm talking about. As for the potential argument that guitars can't give you as much variety as a synthesiser well MIDI guitars are available which are practically the ultimate instrument, you can't perform a harmonic, vibrato or tremelo with as much dexterity of a guitarist on a keyboard or computer for that matter.
As for all this bullshit assuming that rock is a product of white culture, well it was actually developed by bands such as Led Zeppelin, Cream, Hendrix, Rolling Stones etc who were inspired by blues artists such as Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, all 3 Kings and so forth. The blues itself originated in the Mississippi Delta and was an African American music form.
Then some genius said Shakespeare is a a talentless dick or something to that effect, well its no surprise you don't understand the works of the man who has been considered the greatest English playwrights of all time (I think he's good but overated), I guess Fast and Furious is more suited to your taste. For those who have actually studied or read any of his work (assuming you've understood the old English which is explained in the appendix) anyone can see the intricate plots he weaves within his work as well as his command of the English language, I'd recommend of his work Henry IV part 1 and 2 as well as Henry V and Julius Caesar. One last thing to note at least Shakespeare could read/speak English and Latin fluently wheras most rappers sound like they just crossed the border. As for the twat who dissed shakey for being English well you can fuck off you ignorant shite, your not typing in American are you?
As for those saying rock all sounds the same or its not doing anything new are clearly wrong, rock is definately more varied than rap, you have ska, punk, grunge, goth, emo, nu metal, heavy metal, classical metal, classic rock and so on. However I do admit rock is in kind of a slump at the moment with all this excessive emo and nu metal choking the creativity and originality of the genre but its only a phase thats passing. Well as you're not a fan of rock you wouldn't know what pushes the genre, (btw I know you can reverse the argument but my family and friends are into rap so I know whats doing well), critics loved System of A Downs recent album Mezmerise as well as Q.O.T.S.A's Songs For The Death (Lullabies wasn't as inspiring) and Foo Fighters recent release In Your Honour was well recieved. Also another thing to note is that whilst rap is big now, no one is going to be listening to it in 20 years time wheras rock has a timeless quality, sure a lot of the crappy no brainer rock will be forgotten but songs like Smells Like Teen Spirit, Smoke On The Water, A Whole Lotta Love, Ride The Lightning and Voodoo Chile will live on forever.
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And "Paint It, Black" the greatest song of all time...
But he is right. That is a good sum of why most of us don't like rap. But, I will add something, something I've said before, the message of most rap sucks. It is about life in the ghetto, about people who have only hate and greed, about the horrible life they live (despite the fact that the ones that are considered the best by the music community as a whole are rich and famous and therefore don't have some horrible life anyway).
But he is right. That is a good sum of why most of us don't like rap. But, I will add something, something I've said before, the message of most rap sucks. It is about life in the ghetto, about people who have only hate and greed, about the horrible life they live (despite the fact that the ones that are considered the best by the music community as a whole are rich and famous and therefore don't have some horrible life anyway).
Arquibus said:
Fair enough. I rethought my claim about rock not making any progress, and I no longer feel that way. Bands like Radiohead are amazing, and they're just the most obvious example.
Sorry but your argument is null. You're circular.Arquibus said:
Who cares if he would approve of my spelling his name or not?
Shakespeare is the past. His lyrics are ancient and primitive. I dont have to name any names. Most any rapper from the beginning has far outdone anything Shakespeare has ever done, and could never do.
As for being equal to Don McLean, Mick Jagger, and John Lennon. None of them could rap. Mick Jagger is the only one that has thrown great shows for lots of people, but as a lyricist/musician, there are no lyricist or musician in any type of music that could compare with the lyricists/musicians/djs of rap. They have taken music to another level.
Shakespeare is the past. His lyrics are ancient and primitive.
Gimme a break - you've never read Shakespeare.
there are no lyricist or musician in any type of music that could compare with the lyricists/musicians/djs of rap.
You got that right.
BTW - wasn't the very first commercial rap hit a cover of an Aerosmith tune? Walk this way?
Gimme a break - you've never read Shakespeare.
there are no lyricist or musician in any type of music that could compare with the lyricists/musicians/djs of rap.
You got that right.
BTW - wasn't the very first commercial rap hit a cover of an Aerosmith tune? Walk this way?
"Shakespeare is the past. His lyrics are ancient and primitive. I dont have to name any names. Most any rapper from the beginning has far outdone anything Shakespeare has ever done, and could never do."
How arrogant can an assumption get? Lyrics? Shakespeare wrote poetry and plays, he is still being taught here in Britain (it is mandatory to in order to get an acceptable pass grade) and other parts of the world where English is the 1st language. Not only that his works have been translated into every major language anyway. Its not my fault that "ebonics" is not a language recognised by any nation or people, even a lot of native English speaking Africans have contempt for your barbaric savagery of the English language.
As for "ancient", well people's works in history have been judged by their content rather than language otherwise the works of Homer, Socrates, Aristotle, Rambo, Da Vinci would not be read and studied by many today.
You seem to forget how disco was in its heyday and how it inevitably died out.
How arrogant can an assumption get? Lyrics? Shakespeare wrote poetry and plays, he is still being taught here in Britain (it is mandatory to in order to get an acceptable pass grade) and other parts of the world where English is the 1st language. Not only that his works have been translated into every major language anyway. Its not my fault that "ebonics" is not a language recognised by any nation or people, even a lot of native English speaking Africans have contempt for your barbaric savagery of the English language.
As for "ancient", well people's works in history have been judged by their content rather than language otherwise the works of Homer, Socrates, Aristotle, Rambo, Da Vinci would not be read and studied by many today.
You seem to forget how disco was in its heyday and how it inevitably died out.
cool skill said:
Calling me a moron? You believe tupac and his likes are superior to Shakespeare, and if you also believe that crap like "big pimpin'", "california love" or "in da club" is far superior to the likes of bmv 1007, fugue, adagio for strings etc than you're clearly the moron.
This is completely irrelevant to the quality of the work. Why do people always use fallacy to try to prove a point? It's worthless, and annoying. Say all of the people on the planet listened to rap or shakespear. That fact has nothing to do with the quality of the substance within itself. If you are going to propose that Shakespear is a great writer/lyricist, use valid points to back it up. Not irrelevant nonsense.giani_g said:
A lyricist could be taught in every school and translated into every language, or his works might never be heard past his home town. It's an utterly irrelevant point.
You are saying somebody's work is global, therefore it's better. FALSE. Every person in here knows that the works of rap music are known by far more people than the works of shakespeare. But this is not what makes rap better. That is because the globalization of the works have nothing to do with the quality of the work.
Yes but you fail to recognise the point that Shakespeare is no tom, dick or harry. If he wasn't so great then people wouldn't have given a shit enough to translate his work and read it since the 17th century. Its not like its commanding divine greatness or anything like that so its an achievement for anyone to be considered one of the world's greatest playwrights. Also to add if his work was "crap" then it wouldn't have even survived 50 years let alone 200.
As for more people knowing what rap is and Shakespeare well that's pop culture for you, it was like that 50 years ago and its like that now but the difference is its rap not rock and roll that is more widely known so don't expect things to remain the same in 20 years. Granted Shakespeare WILL always be admired by a minority but that minority will always outlast those current cultural fads.
I am not going to read and dictate Shakespeare to you but many online versions are available, please don't be ignorant and disregard it, at least you can sure if it is "crap" like you think it is. http://www.shakespeare-online.com
As for more people knowing what rap is and Shakespeare well that's pop culture for you, it was like that 50 years ago and its like that now but the difference is its rap not rock and roll that is more widely known so don't expect things to remain the same in 20 years. Granted Shakespeare WILL always be admired by a minority but that minority will always outlast those current cultural fads.
I am not going to read and dictate Shakespeare to you but many online versions are available, please don't be ignorant and disregard it, at least you can sure if it is "crap" like you think it is. http://www.shakespeare-online.com
"No. You're clearly a moron. You have no argument. You don't know what rap is. Therefroe, you're opinion is based on igonorant delusion. You're retarded."
Ok then if songs like "in da club", "california love" and "big pimpin'" isn't rap, hip hop woteva den tell me what is?
The truth is you know I've listened to rap and its ilk wheras you don't know what the hell I'm talking about when I mention various baroque songs, why don't you go listen to some of the music I've suggested before shooting your mouth off.
Ok then if songs like "in da club", "california love" and "big pimpin'" isn't rap, hip hop woteva den tell me what is?
The truth is you know I've listened to rap and its ilk wheras you don't know what the hell I'm talking about when I mention various baroque songs, why don't you go listen to some of the music I've suggested before shooting your mouth off.
rap has just as many styles and sub-genres as rock or any other form of music. its REALLY hard; probably impossible, to make a fair judgment on rap based on what you hear and see on vh1 or your local radio station. if you listen to as much rap as i do, you will see the similarities between someone like brittny spears and eminem, or eminem and most of the people he makes fun of in his songs. most of what you hear isnt really rap, its someone singing rap lyrics over pop beats manufactured to appeal to the marketplace.
there is alot of rap that you wont hear because the artists wont sign to a big label (ie. "selling out").
i would say that 10% of all rap is mainstream, and 90% is underground, where you will have to search to find it
there is alot of rap that you wont hear because the artists wont sign to a big label (ie. "selling out").
i would say that 10% of all rap is mainstream, and 90% is underground, where you will have to search to find it
I admit everything I've heard was either from Mtv or off my friends who literally soak up the stuff regardless if it sounded all the same.
I've heard a few underground artists like Quarashi and Cyprus Hill, they're alright as far as music goes but I wouldn't say I'm enthusiast though.
Also to note Rage Against The Machine are brilliant though I mainly like their stuff because of Tom Morello's guitar work.
I'd say I have agree with Danner about the pop influence which is also hurting rock music.
I've heard a few underground artists like Quarashi and Cyprus Hill, they're alright as far as music goes but I wouldn't say I'm enthusiast though.
Also to note Rage Against The Machine are brilliant though I mainly like their stuff because of Tom Morello's guitar work.
I'd say I have agree with Danner about the pop influence which is also hurting rock music.
cool skill said:
http://www.merseyworld.com/imagine/lyrics/imagine.htm
John Lennon's "Imagine"
http://home.swipnet.se/~w-35264/lyrics/black.html
Mick Jagger/Keith Richards "Paint It, Black"
http://www.rareexception.com/Garden/Pie.php
Don McLean's "American Pie"
There. Show a rapper that has better, stronger, more meaningful lyrics. Go on. Do it.
