quite contrary

G

Gifted

World Wanderer
Registered Senior Member
To see what people say:

The Atheist Professor Challenges a God-fearing Student to Prove there is a
God
LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist
professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new
students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a moment.
"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can
cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could...in
fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't."

No answer.

"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even
though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you
answer that one?"

No answer.

The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of
water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In
philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young
fella. Is God good?"

"Er... Yes."

"Is Satan good?"

"No."

"Where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony
fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student
audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies
and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian.

"Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"

"Yes."

"Who created evil?"

No answer.

"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All the
terrible things - do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"Who created them?"

No answer.

The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME,
PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the
Christian's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He,
son?"

No answer.

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly
the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging
panther. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created all
evil throughout all time?" The professor swishes his arms around to
encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all
the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering
created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?"

No answer.

"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?" The
professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?"

No answer.

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do."

The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you
use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen your
Jesus?"

"No, sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus... in
fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"

No answer.

"Answer me, please."

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"

"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"...yes..."

"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According
to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says
your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God
now?"

The student doesn't answer.

"Sit down, please." The Christian sits...Defeated.

Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard!
Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."

The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are
making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold. The second
Christian continues.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white
heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We
can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any
further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be
able to go colder than 458 - You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to
describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in
thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir,
just the absence of it."

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom. "Is there such a thing as
darkness, professor?"

"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are
you getting at...?"

"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes..."

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of
something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called
darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In
reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness
darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a jar of darker darkness,
professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him.
This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your
point is, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start
with and so your conclusion must be in error...."

The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"

"Sir, may I explain what I mean?" The class is all ears.

"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to
regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to
silence the class, for the student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains. "That,
for example, there is life and then here's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and
magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death
as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot
exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the
absence of it."

The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who
has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this
country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"

"Of course there is, now look..."

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is
there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is
there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. "Isn't evil the absence
of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is
temporarily speechless.

The Christian continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we
all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work
through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing? The
Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will,
choose good over evil."

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't vie this
matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely
do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being
part of the world equation because God is not observable."

"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is
probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Christian replies.
"Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me,
professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes,
of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a
silent, stony stare.

"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work
and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"

"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion.
Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.

"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"

"I believe in what is - that's science!"

"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face spits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly
state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a
premise which is flawed..."

"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.

The class is in uproar. The Christian remains standing until the commotion
has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other
student, may I give you an example of what I mean?"

The professor wisely keeps silent. The Christian looks around the room.

"Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out in laughter. The Christian points towards his elderly,
crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's
brain... felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's
brain?"

No one appears to have done so. The Christian shakes his head sadly.

"It appears no-one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's
brain whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, testable,
demonstrable protocol, science says the professor has no brain." The class
is in chaos. The Christian sits...

Because that is what a chair is for.
 
Actual since the professor speaks and is able to spew out mindless drivel I hypothesis there most be something in the professor that is making him move and talk.

Now from careful study of organism very similar to this professor it has been discovered that there is a large organ in the center of the head region that seems to have cause these organisms to speak and move. This organ I will refer to as a brain

So I theorize that though we cannot see nor hear nor touch this “brain” the professor must have it in order to do what he is doing. It is also possible to hypothesis that something else is controlling him but evidence supports that this “brain” is the most common and in fact only device or organ capable of doing this. As of the last few thousand years nothing else has been proven to control these organism’s bodies in this manner. To prove this further I would advice an autopsy or just a temporary removal of the skull.

Science is not about what can be seen, touch and smelled, but about theories that have testable result. This is how science can theories the existence of atoms for example. Though we cannot see, touch and smell the existence of matter in this form: We can show that the atomic theorem of matter has proven it self correct after repeated tested and trials. Though nothing in science can be guaranteed we can put a high probability that something is true after gathering enough evidence and proof.

Sadly any hypothesis of God has not been tested or do not produce result that are competitive with more insentient theories of the universe. This does not mean that the god hypothesis is false but it does mean that as of yet it is unproven.
 
The very first arguement the Christian makes is ridiculous.

There is no such thing as cold? Yes there is.
cold; Relative lack of warmth.
The sensation resulting from lack of warmth
Click to expand...
There, point refuted.

Edit to add; not to mention these "arguements" made by the professor are rather....amateur....to say the least.
 
Obviously the event never happened. I cant belive that a science professor wouldnt even be able to properly define science.
*edit*
Oops just noticed that hes a philosophy prof but i still think that he'd know what science is.
 
Originally posted by Tyler
Edit to add; not to mention these "arguments" made by the professor are rather....amateur....to say the least.
Click to expand...

I agree: I hypothesis that this professor was not qualified to be a philosophy professor. A true philosophy professor would have been able to answer that final question easily in such a way as to crush that student sprit in the same way that he did the rest. He would have most likely answer that question in the same way as I did only with better clarity and with much more evil and cruelty. I propose that we test him with rigors APS testing and see if he is in fact qualified as a professor of this science
 
Gifted,

Very nice, an excellent example of some basic Christian illogic wrapped up in traditional Christian derogatory propaganda.
 
Very nice, an excellent example of some basic Christian illogic wrapped up in traditional Christian derogatory propaganda
Click to expand...

Indeed. I especially love the part about evolution being unobservable; ask an archaeologist about that sometime.
 
Though I don't see the argument as any form of evidence of God's existance, the points the 2nd christian makes are good ones. There is no such thing as cold or darkness, it is simply emptiness. There is no such thing as emptiness, it is our label for lack of fullness. I see this as evidence that the "God created evil" argument is pointless, but I have yet to see any evidence of God himself none-the-less... Faith is our label for lack of evidence. Thus there is no such thing as faith, just lack of reason.
 
To now add my two cents, I will require someone to provide an observable proof that God does not exist, to say that you can't scientifically prove either point, and so the argument will continue forever.
 
I hate to use this now, because I fear a response like musclemans, but...

Prove a giant, invisible, purple squid-monkey hybrid does not exist at the bottom of the ocean. Can't?

If I told you I believe in a giant, invisible, purple squid-monkey hybrid living at the bottom of the ocean would you say it's an illogical belief?

You are correct, Gifted, in that there is no way to prove God does not exist. However, it is quite easy to show that belief in one is illogical.

And I can't believe Christians would believe the kind of crap written in this supposed incident. Goes to show how poor the education system is.
 
No!
You use logic.. Logic was created by evil men. Men who were sent by satan.
God created you and you pay back my despising Him in this way. You insult Him by claiming that He does not exist. You will go to hell, I warn you!
 
Originally posted by Justine
No!
You use logic.. Logic was created by evil men. Men who were sent by satan.
God created you and you pay back my despising Him in this way. You insult Him by claiming that He does not exist. You will go to hell, I warn you!
Click to expand...

Are you the one warning him or is it god warning him? Make the distinction...for your statement implies that you are god..;)
 
Originally posted by Justine
We are all a part of God! God sends his message through me.
Click to expand...


I take it you also believe in Satan right??? I don't want to assume something about someone I don't know.
 
Justine,

You use logic.. Logic was created by evil men. Men who were sent by satan.
God created you and you pay back my despising Him in this way. You insult Him by claiming that He does not exist. You will go to hell, I warn you!
Click to expand...
OK that's fine.

So what you are saying is that we mustn't use logic. The alternative of course is to use illogic.

Logic indicates that through extensive evidence that if you walk in front of a fast moving car then you will almost certainly be killed. Illogical allows you to take this action as if it is normal.

Logic indicates that if one wants to stay healthy one must eat food. Illogic would allow you to starve to death.

Logical reasoning and deductions have enabled science and technology to construct the components that are used to manufacture computers and the internet that in turn allow you to use illogic to claim that these things do not exist.

If logic is due to Satan then I'm definitely going to follow this extraordinary intelligent and superb benefactor.
 
So what you are saying is that we mustn't use logic. The alternative of course is to use illogic.
Click to expand...
You just have to believe in God. That is the answer. Listening in to your voice inside. That is God speaking to you.
Logic indicates that through extensive evidence that if you walk in front of a fast moving car then you will almost certainly be killed. Illogical allows you to take this action as if it is normal.
Click to expand...
How does logic indicate that? Logic has nothing to do with you walking in front of a fast moving car.
You are helpless to God. Only God REALLY knows what will happen in the future.
Logical reasoning and deductions have enabled science and technology to construct the components that are used to manufacture computers and the internet that in turn allow you to use illogic to claim that these things do not exist.
Click to expand...
There is some good in every evil. No matter how big! Only satan is pure evil.
In comparison think of all the evil this "useful" technology has caused.. There are people looking at naked child pictures. There is so much dirtyness in internet.

If logic is due to Satan then I'm definitely going to follow this extraordinary intelligent and superb benefactor.
Click to expand...
So you are already seduced.. Evil is very seducing indeed.
 
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