Question of creation

Hey there, Boris. Once again, your science doesn't explain why, only how. If you ask yourself why, and seek the answer to that question, you WILL find God. I promise. So when is it that you will attempt to answer that question? How many times do I have to ask exactly?

Tiassa,

It really bugs me that you said that people who believe in God have some license to be rude. What a bunch of BS. (oh my, was I being rude?) People are rude regardless of their beliefs, which I think that you have proven in your posts. So, since you are also rude, the inverse would have to be true, and you would have to believe in God, right? Everyone sins, that's the whole flippin' point.

Also, I'd like to add to the discussion of energy, that sin=death. Does that help with the math? I think it does.

Also, truestory, be careful about what you're thinking regarding being clones or hybrids from another planet's species. I myself know that we've been genetically f'd around with. It definately says that in the Bible (your quotes from Genesis). But honey, these were the "bad angels", and the same thing is happening today. Let's not forget that God created us from THIS earth, only after that were we cross-bred with demons. The men of renown were renown, but not necessarily good. In other words, they were not renown in the eyes of God, but in the eyes of humans, just like the Antichrist will be.

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God loves you and so do I!
 
Boris,

I think you might be referring to the Second Law of Thermodynamics: it is impossible to move heat, by a cyclical process, from something at lower temperature to something at higher temperature unless work is added to the system. Since any two things at different temperatures brought together will come to equilibrium at the same temperature, with increased entropy for the spontaneous change, to force the heat to move in the opposite direction requires some external source of energy (work) to make up for the change in entropy.

Since you seem to be the expert in the subject, perhaps you could explain how new stars are being formed in our universe all the time?
 
Lori,

Also, truestory, be careful about what you're thinking regarding being clones or hybrids from another planet's species. I myself know that we've been genetically f'd around with. It definately says that in the Bible (your quotes from Genesis). But honey, these were the "bad angels", and the same thing is happening today. Let's not forget that God created us from THIS earth, only after that were we cross-bred with demons. The men of renown were renown, but not necessarily good. In other words, they were not renown in the eyes of God, but in the eyes of humans, just like the Antichrist will be.
Click to expand...

I believe you intended this comment for me, not Truestory. That is kind of what I was hinting at when I said that evolution had begun on this planet before the aliens put us here, and they gave evolution a helping hand. I believe evolution is the way God brings life into being (from the dust of the earth), but I think that beings who are already in existence and have evolved to a certain level, are capable of messing with that - thereby speeding up the process. I think it explains the missing link.

Lori, I agree with you on a lot of things, but I don't necessarily agree with your ideas of who is "good" and who is "bad". God (the real one) created all. It is by our own limited experiences and perspectives that we judge that creation to be good or bad.

For me, que sera, sera. The length of our lives here on this earth is but the twinkling of an eye in the space of eternity, whether we live 1 year or 120 years. Our physical bodies come from dust, as you say, and they will return to dust. I believe that our spiritual beings are but a tiny portion of the energy that exists throughout the universe, and it is there we will return.
 
Searcher -
This may seem off topic, but bear with me; have you ever played a very old statistics based game called "The game of life"?
(This does have a point :)

tiassa -
I am as uninterested in your opinions of me as I am in your off topic ramblings. I am attempting to discover other people's views on this specific topic. I will not achieve understanding by asking broad based unspecific question. If you have a problem with that, just don't respond. It is that simple. If you want to drop the attitude and respond in context, that would be great. As it is, I'm not going to waste any more of people's time responding to your insolent postsin this topic. So, if you wish to continue with the hostile claptrap, fire away, I shall not rebut.

Regards,
FyreStar
 
Lori--

The first draft of this was pages long. Okay, I'd rather it be simpler.

I'm sorry if it bugs you when I say religious people have a license to be rude. If a person's faith compels them to find a certain practice distasteful, it becomes "God's will" that the practice should not be. There's a great scene in the movie "At Play in the Fields of the Lord" in which Kathy Bates tries to put bras on South American tribal girls. Who cares if this culture is running around topless? But it's offensive, and it's "God's will" that they should be dressed.

Something a little more real? While living in Oregon, I heard a woman arguing before a school board that a book should be banned from the high school library because it had a character named "Demon" in it. Never mind what the author is doing. It's God who says demons are evil and God is always right and it's God's will that this book should not be in the public schools. It was, apparently, a violation of the mother's First Amendment rights that her children should go to school in a district that carried a book she found sacriligious.

Why is this woman wasting our time? Because it's God's will, and that's her best excuse.

Or the woman who was researching the addresses of topless dancers around Salem, Oregon? She found the clubs offensive, so she published the names and addresses of the dancers on community access cable and in newsletters in order to invite harassment upon these women. All because it was the Christian thing to do.

So many times when two ideas come into conflict, one side might say "I understand why you think this, but ...." However, if that other side is compelled by religious faith, it has no need to be sympathetic ... it has God on its side.

I find unyielding, unsympathetic persecution of ideas to be rude. And strangely, it seems that certain churches seem to think they have license to persecute ideas. Ergo, a license to be rude.

It's up to the people of the churches to demand better conduct from those who represent them publicly. Elsewise, silence=approval.

Tiassa

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"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
 
FyreStar--

I owe you a big fat apology.

I'm quite sorry that I could not scale my answer down to a neat little box the way you would like.

I'm sorry if I offended you when I said your reading comprehension stopped after the first paragraph. However, I can't help the fact that it did. If you read your own October 8 post, you might see that you're simply banging your head against a wall. After you tell me I'm irrelevant, you go on to state a situation that A) yes, we agree on, and B) cannot be resolved because of the nature of the question (which is the point you call irrelevant). Faith will stop answering you and start looping over. Period. That's it. That's all I was getting at. I'm sorry if it's irrelevant to you that nobody can give you the answer you're after. Because it's a valid, proper question. But there is NO answer that "creation theory" can give that will not cycle out with its faith.

I'm so sorry I can't see how that's not relevant.

Tiassa

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"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)

[This message has been edited by tiassa (edited October 10, 1999).]
 
tiassa -
I apologize for responding once more, but I may have found focal point of this misunderstanding; I do not desire the true answer to this question.. I am well aware that nobody can give me that. I am attempting to collect data on people's opinions. I simply want to know what people of opposing viewpoint think. Not a debate, but an inquiry. I also apologize for whatever confusion this may have caused.

FyreStar


[This message has been edited by FyreStar (edited October 10, 1999).]
 
Sooooooo Tiassa,

You're saying that because "religious" people sin, that the religion is worthless? Excuse me, but as I said before, that is the whole flippin' point of the religion. Don't blame Jesus just because some don't get it. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater??? Believe me...YOU ARE TOTALLY MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT. I mean, how do those people stack up when confronted with the teaching that we are in no position to judge? Oh my, that happens to be a Christian staple teaching that many, many, many tend to ignore for their own ego's sake. Oh well, that must be because we are ALL sinners. Get it?????? Yea, even Christians....duh??

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God loves you and so do I!
 
Lori,

I believe Searcher is correct because I do not hold the views about cloning and hybrids which you attributed to me.

I would truly appreciate it if you would not address me with terms such as "honey," regardles of whether I am a poster who you think you agree with or not.
 
Lori--

I don't blame Jesus because some alleged Christians don't get it. I blame Christians because some Christians don't get it. If the "good Christians"--the ones we never hear from in the public eye--never reel in their soapbox brethren, then what am I, or anyone else, supposed to think?

And it isn't so much a matter of one person sinning within a group. However, since Christians, as a whole, attempt to define "sin", and since their object is to overcome it, it seems odd that so many individual "good Christians" (I'm separating them from the Falwells, Tiltons, &c. of our society) seem complacent while the image of their glorious gift goes prostituted for personal gain.

I recall a recent press circus here in Seattle when a pastor of a large church was arrested and cited for public indecency. That sin didn't even faze me. What bugged me most was the aggressive response of church elders, who slandered the arresting officer and the public officials of the county in which the incident allegedly took place. After claiming false arrest and slander by the authorities, the church elders eventually released a statement that the pastor was dealing with his own demons and had the full support of the church body. End of story. Hmmm ... okay, I can get past the masturbation in a public restroom. But what I can't get past is this vanguard of "holy men" who offer and perpetuate lies to salvage a weakening reputation.

I expect politicians to lie; I would prefer proper politicians, but it's up to the American people as a whole to elect proper leaders. I do not, however, expect the vanguard of godly-enforced "truth" to lie. I find it disturbing.

If I hang out with coke dealers and pimps, should I expect forthrightness? If I am around pious persons, such as clergy or elders, should I expect deceit and calculated manipulation?

I can't change the Christian perspective--I'm not part of it. However, anyone who chooses to take part in the process of Christ does have the power to change the Christian modus operandi.

If I stand in a bar and watch while three men attack a woman, am I guilty in any way? If you stand by while your preacher lies, cheats, or steals to accomplish a "godly" goal, are you guilty in any way?

Tiassa

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"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
 
FyreStar--

I'm cool with that. I'll just let it go and make sure not to waste any more of your time.

-Tiassa

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"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
 
TS,

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me.

Tiassa,

I totally agree with everything you wrote in your last post. Totally, word for word. As a matter of fact, that type of behavior is what keeps most Bible-believing Christians away from organized religion. That's why I took the long road, and I'm glad I did. When I was little, I'd go to church with my grandparents, and the preacher drove a Mercedes. Preached about tithes and offerrings like oh 50% of the time spent. I can't tell you how that shit infuriates me. Since then, they've built some absolutely huge "sancutary" to replace the old church, which was huge to begin with, and it's all done in imported marble that I'm sure costs a fortune. Some preachers are really good though. I mean at preaching the word of God. Everyone makes mistakes, but I agree that blatently using the word of God to perpetuate greed and sin is blasphemy. Don't worry, they will get theirs. I can't understand why you would suggest that I involve myself with this type of behavior. You're never gonna catch me praying for a Mercedes and a new Liz suit. That's insane. I watch church on TBN every Sunday. I like Dr. James Kennedy in Ft. Lauderdale (Coral Ridge Presbyterian), and I like to listen to Joyce Meyer "Life in the Word". She's funny. She's a bitch like me. :) I can't stand overly charasmatic preaching. I don't mind enthusiasm, but used appropriately. I read the Bible, and I read other interpretive books. I pray for the truth; guidance from the Holy Spirit. He sent me here of all places. :) My point to you is that the fact that Christians sin, and there are some who only profess to be Christians, but do not surrender their lives to Christ, does not denounce the teachings of the Word. It just takes some praying, some reading, and some common sense. It makes sense. And also, the Word teaches of a personal relationship with Christ. Worship can be done in a closet. Fellowship is very helpful to the spirit, but the less pure it is, the more it drains your strength in spirit, which is actually achieving the opposite effect of what true fellowship is supposed to do, which is fill and strengthen and nuture the spirit. That exists in this world, it's just that the lady with the big-ass hair, and a bottle of mascara on each eyelash gets all the attention. Ugh.

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God loves you and so do I!

[This message has been edited by Lori (edited October 11, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Lori (edited October 15, 1999).]
 
Hey all,
I am new here and this will be one of few comments I make, so I am going to try and put as much in here as possible.

First off, I am a Christian and a creationist. I believe that God (with a CAPITAL G) gave a vision to a human a long time ago, and he, in his best words described creation.

Take a look if you don't believe me. He says waters, but think, in space doesn't gas in a neblua have a liquid look to it. So let's say that the nebular theory is correct. That explains much of creation in the first chapter. The light before the sun, the desert in chpt. 2 and waters in chpt. 1. I am not a scientist, but this works! Also, everyone always says there are 2 creation stories, but if I am not mistaken, in Chapter 2, the animals and the garden HAD been created. Does the use of the past tense of that verb strike anyone else?

Let's see, so now we are to my favorite part: Human Creation! How did God do it? I have no idea!! and I love it! Gives me a reason to get to heaven. Were there literal hands? Again I don't know, but I do know that God had a part in it

(OH! As a side note, any Christian who tells you that they have a license to be rude is dead wrong! We are called to love everyone even if they do the worst thing possible and refuse Christ.)

Now where was I? oh yes, as for aliens and clones, I don't know of any scripture that proves or disproves that directly, so I will wait ask God when I see him.

Finally, just in case anyone out there thinks we are all just a fluke. I present the second law of Thermodynamics. It in general states that everything works toward entropy or everything gets worse and worse as time goes on so how do organisms form and get better and better without help from a creator. Any light you can shed on this will be greatly appreciated.

Now while I have been blunt I hope I have not made anyone mad. If I have I apologize. Lastly, I want to share my opinion on Christianity. I hear it constantly referred to as a religion, but in religions acts and deeds are part of what gets you to the reward. Christianity asks nothing but that you believe. So it is therefore not a religion, but a lifestyle. I hope this clarifies some of the issues put forth on this board. I will be interested in hearing your replies.

Yours in Christ,
plain_insane for the Lord!
 
Hello la monkee, im new to this board today aswell

I hope to do some shamblin in some posts with ya :)

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Im a shambles, but Im Gods shambles!!
 
Searcher,

Pardon about the number, but Second Law it is. And stars form because the universe has far from exhausted its reservoirs of available energy. However, when most of the hydrogen is fused into heavier elements, when most of matter either radioactively decays or ends up inside black holes, when the last rays of reddened gasps of anscient stars travel lonely through the cosmos, the universe will indeed face a slow and chilling death.

It's nice while the fire is still burning; however, the fuel is bound to eventually run out. It's not really all that hard to see.

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I am; therefore I think.
 
Welcome Plain_Insane and thank you. Christianity is a lifestyle and not a religion... very good explanation for those Christians who do not belong to an "organized" religion.

Nice to meet you.
 
Hi, Tiassa

In answer to your questions:

"If I stand in a bar and watch while three men attack a woman, am I guilty in any way? If you stand by while your preacher lies, cheats, or steals to accomplish a "godly" goal, are you guilty in any way?"

I opine YES, in both situations.
 
Truestory--

Exactly. Well, I think.

Tiassa

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"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)
 
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