Question about the bible. The virgin Mary. AND MORE! READ NOW.

[A Canadian]

Let me start by saying, that I have come to believe, that religion in itself, is an act of the devil. It causes the masses to fight over meaningless things... is this fanaticism or just religion as it is meant to be?

I would like to believe that there is a higher being that created or looks down upon us, but I find it hard to follow religion. Money, power and religion... these are roots of evil. Crime, death, destruction, hatred, (believe me, I go name more) all seem to root from these 3 sources. I do not mind if you wish to believe in an after life, a hell or heaven, or reincarnation, but to base fables or stories or "passages" into a current day way of life... well, for lack of a better word, I find it... funny.

With that little tidbit said, I would like to ask a couple questions about religion. I have posted in Alien/UFO forums quite a bit, and I laugh at some of the stuff that goes on. Over believers, under-believers.... I see no difference from UFO forums and Religion forums. Aliens are hardly ever brought into the religion forums and vise versa. Now THAT would be a heated argument. But let us skip that for now.

Here are my questions concerning the bible and the creation of Jesus. (And I fully know that mainly only religious fanatics participate in this forum section.)

1. Man-kind has primal urges. Sex is one of them. Now a couple of questions arise from this.
A) Where Joe (Let's call him that for short) and Mary married? Or where they just a couple?
B) Where they religious, did they have sins according to the bible law or where there names randomly picked out of a hat?
C) If these 2 where an item, why did they not consummate? and if they did why could Joe not fertilize Mary?
D) Again, sex is a primal urge. Joe may or may not of had sex with Mary, but how do we know that Mary was not a hussy, a whore if you will.... how do we know she did not sleep with another man? and in fear of loosing her husband (boyfriend?), she made up some out of whack story.

I would like to ask some more Questions on the matter, but for now lets move to the next one.

2. The 3 wise men.
A) What in their feeble human brains caused 3 people from different lands to all converge on one spot. Ok, they followed a "bright object" in the sky and brought gifts with them, what urged 3 people, no more no less, to bring gifts?
B) I may be totally wrong on this, I never read the bible but, it was 3 different nations and 3 wise men. Before this baby Jesus was born, clearly these nations must of had their own religion before the event in question. This is not really a question but more of a random thought....
C)Now here is the ironic part, have you ever seen "Monty Pythons: The life of Brian". At the start of the film, 3 wise men travel from far away and enter a home, yet they only realize that it is the wrong baby. Aside from that funny tidbit, in the bible, how did the 3 wise men know EXACTLY where to go.... back in those times... no one is going to live alone in the middle of the desert... it is a death trap.... Joe and Mary would have to live in a city, in order to obtain survival in those times. And living in a small or large city... a single glowing object in the sky will not direct 3 men to an exact spot...
I just find it hard to believe.


I do have more questions to ask, I have never read the bible, but seeing as how it is the most popular publishing in the world, I may soon get around to it. I do know the bases of it tho... and for me that is enough.

Should we call Religion, "Religion" or should we call it a Cult?

If a any religion based off the bible was not so popular in North America, I would learn more about other religion by simply watch the T.V. But alas, brain-washing is so easy.

Asking questions is more easy that proving something, but I have learned from posting in these forums that people are either ignorant, self-absorbed, in denile, or arrogent.

It is only the people who question, and not reply, who get ahead.
"WHY" is a much better statment than "BECAUSE".



Well, reply as much as you may. And please forgive if I reply late, or even never. I know this topic shall be getting some heat, I would post it in general, but it would get moved. I like these forums but i feel myself growing less and less attached every day, even tho I have no social life.

But who cares, the world is about questions... not why, who, where, when. It is about EXPLAIN?

PS: happy easter... say where did the term Easter come from anyways... and what the hell does EASTER mean, I know what it is for but.... the word.... it don't sound right. Easter.... it is a religion based holiday, yet both USA and Canada Celebrate it every-year.... Why??? WHY??? It is a religion holiday.... same as x-mas.... yet 95% or more of Canada or USA take these days off or get paid more for working on them.... working on Days that are Religious earn you more money? A thousand questions arise from this... Will a BUHDA get paid more money for working on religoius holiday? in North America?

No...he wont.
His main raligion is not based on the country which he lives in, main religion, thus he will not get double time/double pay if he works on this religions holliday... Will a random religion be able to get more pay just becuase it is a "holiday" to his ideas and belifes but not the main idea of North America?

North Americans Celerbrate easter AND X-mass... clearly these 2 things are base on religion, yet why are they national holidays.... If a small religion had some random day in some month... He won't get his day off. Think about it...

Really think about it....
He may get the day off but will he get paid extra for working on his own personal religion? Of course not.... Anyone who works on x-mas gets paid extra...... but lets say you work on the Japan New year... do you get paid extra... Hell no.... Only if it is a North America MAIN holiday, will you get extra pay.

NO.

I could go on now becuase of what I just said... But I got angry..... and I am sick of writing. (typing)

I got fired up... and I am burning right now from my own questions....

Anyways..... this is a good thread starter.... try not to attack me personaly, but feel free to address the issues, I do not have many answeres but I got questions.

And questions can over rule answeres anyday.
Speak your mind, I may not respond for a while however.

People follow the so called "Bible", I am interested to see to replys.
I took the time to write you take the time to read.

ENJOY!

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

You are indeed correct, it is perhaps greater to ask than to answer. You have many questions. Yet, I do not believe you are really asking any questions, but merely making a statement. You seem to already have your mind made up, and are simply asking particular questions to bring a point across. You have asked particular questions, and asked them in such a way as to convince the reader that, "religion in itself, is an act of the devil."

Are you really curious? Or are you determined?

These questions are designed to make you reconsider your assertions, just as your questions are designed to make the religious person reconsider his/her assertions.

 

[A Canadian]

Are you really curious? Or are you determined?

Friend, I am both.

History has thought me one thing, and questions another.


But it is the WHY, that bugs me.


God, as seen in the eyes of the bible and most other religions, created this universe... but why.... if we was created in his own imagine... why are we doing what we do?

Why are we clearly failing....

Does GOD have flaws?...
It is clear that man-kind does....

Is that impossible?

Is our mankind just a TEST?
Is this why we have the attention towards ALIENS?

A being of supreme power would surely like to experiment... which is why I feel "E.T's" exist....

"Nobody is perfect"

Not even "god" himself.

Something can be perfect…. But not someone… It is impossible…. Even if it is GOD himself.... clearly most, if not all religions, want mankind to be perfect.... but... why, why, do we fight over such foolish squabbles.

QUOTE: GOD, UNQUOTE: is a ALIEN to us....
Should we take our own paths or let something we never seen or heard from personaly, controll our lives.

??????

 

[duendy]

The Bible is a myth, just like the ths that came bfore it and after it. so to seriosly inquire whether Mary and Joseph really shagged and were fertile is beside the point.
the motif of the virgin birth etc is shared in other myths. myth has deeper layers of meaning. this is shown etymologically ...when you read someone show you this technique, i first learned from the great J.Allegro, from reading his book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross and it was reading that book which inspired my interest in mythologicaly!

When you dig this you cannot be taken in by any book being the word of whoever. BUT what i HAVE learned is the the 'word' is a particular patriarchal takeoever of the preliterate mythology of the Goddess, where IMAGE is the source. we DREAM in images, and reality is image, form. it is very immediate, and real, much more so that text. though of course good writing and poetry can also be powerful when it conjures imagery. But when it is devisive and attempts to split us off from ourselves and Nature is when you need to SEE that. se through it
You do NOT want all that lording it over you. you dont want ALIENS lording it over you. you dont want 'you' lording it over you. the latter can happen when you are feeling divided due to taking divsive mythology literally, and you feel therer is a 'bad' part of you which a 'good' part must control!

 

[Adstar]

A) Where Joe (Let's call him that for short) and Mary married? Or where they just a couple?

They where married.

B) Where they religious, did they have sins according to the bible law or where there names randomly picked out of a hat?

They where believers in The God of Abraham. They had sins. what has there sins got to do with the "picked out of hat?" what hat? who picked?

C) If these 2 where an item, why did they not consummate? and if they did why could Joe not fertilize Mary?

They did consummate their marriage and Joe did fertilize mary and she did have children.

D) Again, sex is a primal urge. Joe may or may not of had sex with Mary, but how do we know that Mary was not a hussy, a whore if you will.... how do we know she did not sleep with another man? and in fear of loosing her husband (boyfriend?), she made up some out of whack story.

I suppose she could have been taken in a space ship to metabenus 3 by a race of pink 7 foot tall aliens and been artificially inseminated by a genetically modified flower, but while that could be possible it's just speculation.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

A) What in their feeble human brains caused 3 people from different lands to all converge on one spot. Ok, they followed a "bright object" in the sky and brought gifts with them, what urged 3 people, no more no less, to bring gifts?

They must have read the torah, that the jews put together while they where in exile in Babylon they must have read the prophesy of Daniel that foretold how many years would pass between the call to rebuild Jerusalem to the time of the coming of the Messiah the Prince. They must have also read the book of Micah that prophesy that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. So they had a timeframe and a location oh and they had the "star" whatever that was?

B) I may be totally wrong on this, I never read the bible but, it was 3 different nations and 3 wise men. Before this baby Jesus was born, clearly these nations must of had their own religion before the event in question. This is not really a question but more of a random thought....

The bible only says that they came from the east. Babylon is east of Israel.

C)Now here is the ironic part, have you ever seen "Monty Pythons: The life of Brian". At the start of the film, 3 wise men travel from far away and enter a home, yet they only realize that it is the wrong baby. Aside from that funny tidbit, in the bible, how did the 3 wise men know EXACTLY where to go.... back in those times... no one is going to live alone in the middle of the desert... it is a death trap.... Joe and Mary would have to live in a city, in order to obtain survival in those times. And living in a small or large city... a single glowing object in the sky will not direct 3 men to an exact spot...
I just find it hard to believe.

I watched the life of brian i loved the last part where they where singing the "always look on the bright side of life" song i still love that song.

Anyway back on topic. As i said before they had the torah and the "star" so they couldn't get lost. While Jesus was born in Bethlehem He did not live there but grew up in the city of Nazareth. And the area that we are talking about is not a desert at all. Oh don’t feel alone about finding it hard to believe. Most of the worlds population find it hard to believe so your in the vast majority in that disbelief.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

PS: happy easter... say where did the term Easter come from anyways... and what the hell does EASTER mean, I know what it is for but.... the word.... it don't sound right. Easter.... it is a religion based holiday, yet both USA and Canada Celebrate it every-year.... Why??? WHY??? It is a religion holiday.... same as x-mas.... yet 95% or more of Canada or USA take these days off or get paid more for working on them.... working on Days that are Religious earn you more money? A thousand questions arise from this... Will a BUHDA get paid more money for working on religoius holiday? in North America?


No...he wont.
His main raligion is not based on the country which he lives in, main religion, thus he will not get double time/double pay if he works on this religions holliday... Will a random religion be able to get more pay just becuase it is a "holiday" to his ideas and belifes but not the main idea of North America?

North Americans Celerbrate easter AND X-mass... clearly these 2 things are base on religion, yet why are they national holidays.... If a small religion had some random day in some month... He won't get his day off. Think about it...

Really think about it....
He may get the day off but will he get paid extra for working on his own personal religion? Of course not.... Anyone who works on x-mas gets paid extra...... but lets say you work on the Japan New year... do you get paid extra... Hell no.... Only if it is a North America MAIN holiday, will you get extra pay.

You know Athiests like shaking there fists against these days But really they should realize when there on a good thing and keep their mouths zipped

If all the holy days of all the world religions where declared public holidays then no work would ever get done. I would say that every day of the years is claimed by some religion for some commemoration. So what do you think will happen if all religious days where given equal footing in the law in America? Do you think the whole year would be holiday time??? or do you think that everyone could claim a day as an extra pay day because they where working on a religious day of their faith??? Not likely friend. I will tell you what would happen. All holy days would no longer be holidays at all. Forget about the weekend Saturday or Sunday because Saturday is the jewish sabbath and sunday is the catholic sabbath both religious days. yep we have a weekend because of religion, no religious day holidays no weekend. You want to work 7 days a week 364 days a year. You want to work christmas day and easter without extra pay? Just keep on shaking your fists against religious holidays and you will get an unpleasant surprise. You will be working everyday with no days off and you will be paid a base rate. That will be the outcome in this level playing field, globalized world.

Oh and easter comes from a pagan fertility festival both easter and christmas are pagan in origin. The reason they are celebrated today is because the catholic church took the days over and gave them religious meanings.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days