Question About Mind Transfer
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The question from Post #1 has an unstated & invalid assumption, namely that the human brain is organized like a computer.
When memories are stored in the brain it is analogous to rewiring circuitry rather than putting data into available memory slots.
The concept is useful only for second rate SciFi.
When memories are stored in the brain it is analogous to rewiring circuitry rather than putting data into available memory slots.
The concept is useful only for second rate SciFi.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
What part of the brain that you would remove and transplant are you calling "the mind"?
Assumin it was medically possible to swap the "defective" brain wit a "healthy" brain... an all biological connections was a good match... then that disorder you mentioned woud be gone... but the person woud prolly go into shock from the brain not receivin the sensory imput it was accustomed to... an if they survived that... then they coud eventualy learn to walk an talk... etc... properly function agan.!!!
The persons brain that you put into someone else's would be the person you got the brain from. Like Frankenstein monster.
You cannot switch the thoughts of one person into another at least not now or in the foreseeable future.
Yes.!!!
You use the term "consciousness" without really addressing what it means in this instance. If you mean transferring everything you agree upon to be you -- it's impossible, why? Because everything that is "you" is a conscious representation of the biological composition of your brain, because of this, you couldn't have yourself transferred into another brain -- because "yourself" is your brain. I hope this is making sense to you. Something that could be possible (though, extremely unlikely so.) is having an exact copy of your healthy brain made -- and being implanted into a surrogate (there are obvious hurdles with this) but even then, the surrogate wouldn't be you, just a clone of you.
TL;DR: No, it is physically impossible.
Say you'r put to sleep... an a complete clone (brain an body) was made of you... the original an clone wake up... woud ether know which was the original.???
No, neither of you could discern which the original is.
A clone can't reproduce all the epigenetic changes of the brain that make us who we are. These changes are not the same as cloning a hard drive. All we can do with genetics is clone the original hard drive. If we could also clone epigenetic changes and the brain can generate these, this would imply the brain could theoretically alter the DNA right down to the genetic code of any cell wired into the nervous system.This would allow the brain or evil aspects of the unconscious to change the genetic code of cells to cause cancer; for example.
Yes... it woud be like movin you'r furniture into someone elses house... ie... it ant gonna fit corectly.!!!
I meant the word definition of clone, not the biological one. I'm assuming in this case that there are no discrepancies between the two -- and that there will continue not to be. (Which, as I said, impossible).
I was also intentionally disregarding any genetic differential -- to avoid making the statement too complex to understand for some.
So how would a say hypothetically successful partial brain transplant work ?
I don't think it would with todays technology.
Not with todays technology but say IF the future had that kind of technology(of course this would be decades away) Do you think a partial brain transplant would work ?
If one assumed that consciousness or the soul was separate from the brain's hardware (spiritual) then you really would not have to be too fussy about the transplant. In this case, it would be like changing a bicycle (hardware). It might be a little awkward at first, but consciousness would adapt and eventually drive the bike fine. Although difference in the bikes, like going from a light weight frame to a heavy frame, will put a limit on the ease of doing certain things. But the base style of driving (who we are) will be the same and recognizable as you.
On the other hand, if consciousness is intimately connected to the hardware, then you would need to be more exact. One can have two twins from the same split egg, but they will not be mental clones even if close to biological clones Each has a unique POV from which they view the world and gather a lifetime of data which is ingrained in the details of the same genetic brain hardware. If the transfer is not too good, you could end up with a different person that may be viable but not who you expect.
What allows consciousness is connected to way neurons are designed. When neurons are at rest, they exist at their highest potential. The firing of neurons lowers this potential. After firing the neuron will expend a lot of energy pumping and exchanging sodium and potassium cations until the rest potential is restored. The segregation of the cations increase energy and lowers the entropy. The rest neuron contains the potential to lower energy and to increase it entropy. The former is useful for action, while the latter is useful for organic change; adaptation.
This is different from computer memory in that computer memory at rest is at lowest potential. This is needed for stability so the memory does not change and will store a long time. Living memory, on the other hand, by being at highest potential is designed to be accident waiting to happen. As one analogy, neurons are more like blowing up a balloon until it pops; fires. This lower the energy and will increase entropy into unique fragments that fly.
Neurotransmitters are used to make the fabric of the balloon analogy stronger or weaker so certain balloons can pop easier or with greater difficulty. This allows certain memory to appear under certain situations; only the red balloons pop while the blue ones remain firm. Brain waves reflect a constant firing or popping of a wide range of neurons, with an energy flow going from higher to lower potential causing entropy increase. Consciousness appears within this flux, with memory helping to define the flow.
As another analogy we (consciousness) a like a fountain of water that is pumped to a height only to fall back again. This potential or pumping needs to lower energy and does so as a cascade that falls downward to the bottom of the fountain. Our memory defines the structure of the fountain which directs the water as it falls to lower potential. Conscious is like the dynamics within water connected yet separate from the hardware. This flux of water appears the same, yet it is always slightly different second to second. It can impact the hardware to make changes via entropic potential.
On the other hand, if consciousness is intimately connected to the hardware, then you would need to be more exact. One can have two twins from the same split egg, but they will not be mental clones even if close to biological clones Each has a unique POV from which they view the world and gather a lifetime of data which is ingrained in the details of the same genetic brain hardware. If the transfer is not too good, you could end up with a different person that may be viable but not who you expect.
What allows consciousness is connected to way neurons are designed. When neurons are at rest, they exist at their highest potential. The firing of neurons lowers this potential. After firing the neuron will expend a lot of energy pumping and exchanging sodium and potassium cations until the rest potential is restored. The segregation of the cations increase energy and lowers the entropy. The rest neuron contains the potential to lower energy and to increase it entropy. The former is useful for action, while the latter is useful for organic change; adaptation.
This is different from computer memory in that computer memory at rest is at lowest potential. This is needed for stability so the memory does not change and will store a long time. Living memory, on the other hand, by being at highest potential is designed to be accident waiting to happen. As one analogy, neurons are more like blowing up a balloon until it pops; fires. This lower the energy and will increase entropy into unique fragments that fly.
Neurotransmitters are used to make the fabric of the balloon analogy stronger or weaker so certain balloons can pop easier or with greater difficulty. This allows certain memory to appear under certain situations; only the red balloons pop while the blue ones remain firm. Brain waves reflect a constant firing or popping of a wide range of neurons, with an energy flow going from higher to lower potential causing entropy increase. Consciousness appears within this flux, with memory helping to define the flow.
As another analogy we (consciousness) a like a fountain of water that is pumped to a height only to fall back again. This potential or pumping needs to lower energy and does so as a cascade that falls downward to the bottom of the fountain. Our memory defines the structure of the fountain which directs the water as it falls to lower potential. Conscious is like the dynamics within water connected yet separate from the hardware. This flux of water appears the same, yet it is always slightly different second to second. It can impact the hardware to make changes via entropic potential.
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I don't think it would ever be needed in the far future because whatever abnormality a person might have will be able to be corrected by then.
The only other reason that it might be needed is to save a dying person's memories and mind, to a certain degree, but again I'd think in the future they will have developed other techniques to do that.
What's the practicality of this, though? I think I'm missing the portion of this statement where it actually becomes necessary for a partial brain donation. 3D printing is very promising in this regard, you can "recreate" portions of the brain using coerced stem cell formation. They have already successfully done this with a heart[2] (Although, I don't think it has ever been tried for implantation.) Creating a sort of artificial differentiation - especially with nervous cells would be a massive hurdle, and even supposing that this is surmounted there is always the issue of structure (Which instrumentation may not be accurate enough to replicate.) I don't think that a brain donation is ever going to happen, mainly because it is such a "Frankenstein" concept - there are obvious issues that immediately arise when you begin to talk about it.
The brain is full of endlessly complex neural pathways that fire very specifically for specific results, many of them are nonsensical. Trying to implant a whole portion of the brain would cause irreversible damage to these pathways and the sectional bonds that exist in the brain. A good example of this would be those who need to have their Corpus Callosum removed for severe seizures - individuals who have a portion of their brains removed have unforeseeable reactions unless the location is extremely specific. Those who are unfortunate enough to necessitate the removal of their Corpus Callosum have hemispheric problems, and a cascade of extremely undesirable side effects[1], which include:
- Scalp numbness
- Nausea
- Feeling tired or depressed
- Headaches
- Difficulty speaking, remembering things, or finding words
- Paralysis, weakness, loss of sensation
- Change in personality
Receiving a Corpus Callostomy can be an extremely damaging operation, unless it is executed with extreme precision (Even with, there are well known side effects that occur regardless). Why then, if such a "Simple" brain operation has such severe side effects would we consider a complete (or partial) replacement? It would cause plenty of damage to the donor, who would have to be alive at the time of retrieval. Brain death is an irreversible constant in medicine - once the person is brain dead retrieval of the organ becomes impossible (Meaning that a post mortem brain donation is literally impossible). The question of partial brain transplantation is a nonsensical question in this case because it is not ethical to negligibly donate your brain to someone - as you are, in this instance, asking for your death or severe injury. As far as I am able to find there are no cases of a brain being transplantable under ANY condition, case closed end of story it is a literal IMPOSSIBILITY.
Citations:
http://www.webmd.com/epilepsy/guide/corpus-callosotomy?page=2 [1]
http://www.livescience.com/41280-3d-printing-heart.html [2]
(Might have used more, but most of the response is implied common knowledge)