Quantum/Life Interactions - In a nutshell

[wlminex]

Open for discussion . . . . thanks for your comments. ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF FOR ANY OF THIS . . . . Just A few non-sectarian, out-of-the-box (OOB), crank thoughts tying liffe to the quantum:

Creation
The origin and continuing additive evolution of physical substance by fluctuations within the quantum realm initiated via virtual particle formation and subsequent quantum interactions. Once created, physical substance behavior is moderated by certain physical laws of thermodynamics.

Origin of life
Interaction of quantum realm with organic molecules and mitochondria via the Casimir and other quantum effects.

Evolution
A progressive, self-perfecting process directed by quantum interactions and feedback loops

Consciousness
Interaction of very small-scale organic brain functions (e.g., neurons, microtubules) with quantum level via Casimir and other quantum effects.

Spirituality
Reflection of additive mind knowledge of quantum realm interactons.

Purpose
Assumes direction from omnipresent intelligence source operating at quantum level.

Prayer
Synchronicity of goal-oriented quantum interactions among one or many; connections via quantum level.

Soul
Central, quantum level entity residing (perhaps holographically) throughout the brain/mind complex; consciousness, that evolves within a living structure (physical body/mind). Relies on physical attributes (e.g., senses) to reason existence, experience, and information. Additive feedback at the quantum level. Survives physical death at the quantum level.

God
One of many names constructed by humans to describe the omnipresent intelligence source underlying and pervading all of existence. Operational at the quantum level. Subtley and omnidirectionally interactive with the physical via Casimir and other quantum effects.

 

[wlminex]

Another thought (Addendum to OP):

Death
True and final physical death occurs when quantum interactions with bodily organics ceases to initiate organic responses or feedback to the quantum realm. Quasi-death states, short of final death, may provide avenues for reanimation (e.g., NDE’s miraculous recoveries, etc.).

 

[James R]

wlminex:

It would perhaps help you if you learned something about quantum physics before posting rubbish like this.

Creation
The origin and continuing additive evolution of physical substance by fluctuations within the quantum realm initiated via virtual particle formation and subsequent quantum interactions.

I believe the term for this is "word salad".

Once created, physical substance behavior is moderated by certain physical laws of thermodynamics.

Which ones? How, specifically? This is so vague as to be useless.

Origin of life
Interaction of quantum realm with organic molecules and mitochondria via the Casimir and other quantum effects.

How, precisely?

Give me ONE way the Casimir effect could interact with mitochondria. That is, I require more than a mere assertion, but some plausible mechanism or description.

Also "other quantum effects" is so vague as to be useless again.

Evolution
A progressive, self-perfecting process directed by quantum interactions and feedback loops

Directed how, exactly?

Give me ONE plausible way that "quantum interactions" could direct evolution.

And feedback loops of what, exactly?

Consciousness
Interaction of very small-scale organic brain functions (e.g., neurons, microtubules) with quantum level via Casimir and other quantum effects.

Once again, we have the catch-all phrase "other quantum effects". In other words, this is just pie-in-the-sky guesswork, or wishful thinking. Is the Casimir effect the only quantum effect you can put a name to? Is that why you keep mentioning it explicitly?

Spirituality
Reflection of additive mind knowledge of quantum realm interactons.

What is "additive mind knowledge" and how is it distinct from "knowledge"?

How does one get "additive mind knowledeg" of quantum interactions, exactly? And why is this spiritual? Where are the spirits?

Purpose
Assumes direction from omnipresent intelligence source operating at quantum level.

What is your evidence for an omnipresent intelligence source?
How is an "omnipresent intelligence source" different from "God"? Or is this just fancy language used to obscure a simple point?
Why must purpose assume direction from God?

Prayer
Synchronicity of goal-oriented quantum interactions among one or many; connections via quantum level.

Please explain exactly how prayer depends on quantum interactions of any kind.

What kinds of connections at the "quantum level" are you talking about, explicitly? Or is this just a wave of the hand again at "other quantum effects"?

Soul
Central, quantum level entity residing (perhaps holographically) throughout the brain/mind complex; consciousness, that evolves within a living structure (physical body/mind). Relies on physical attributes (e.g., senses) to reason existence, experience, and information. Additive feedback at the quantum level. Survives physical death at the quantum level.

What is this "quantum level" you keep talking about? Please explain.

How can an entity reside holographically? What do you mean by that, exactly?

What is "additive feedback"?

Where is your evidence for even the tiniest bit of this?

God
One of many names constructed by humans to describe the omnipresent intelligence source underlying and pervading all of existence. Operational at the quantum level. Subtley and omnidirectionally interactive with the physical via Casimir and other quantum effects.

Ah yes, it must be the Casimir and "other" quantum effects, for sure.
---

Why is this nonsense in the Religion forum?

Why waste your time with this kind of useless crap?

You don't know anything about quantum physics. You probably don't know much about religion. All you have here is some scatterbrain thoughts that occurred to you in the shower or something. Why subject the rest of us to them?

 

[wlminex]

"All you have here is some scatterbrain thoughts that occurred to you in the shower or something."

Probably so, James . . . . .re-read paragraph one (1) of the OP . . . . regards

. . . BTW . . . made you think, didn't I?

 

[wlminex]

Responses to James R’s response to wlm post on Sciforums

wlminex:

It would perhaps help you if you learned something about quantum physics before posting rubbish like this.
“ Originally Posted by wlminex
Creation
The origin and continuing additive evolution of physical substance by fluctuations within the quantum realm initiated via virtual particle formation and subsequent quantum interactions. ”
I believe the term for this is "word salad".
“ Once created, physical substance behavior is moderated by certain physical laws of thermodynamics. ”
Which ones? [1st, 2nd, and 3rd, at least] How, specifically? [Entropy] This is so vague as to be useless.
“ Origin of life
Interaction of quantum realm with organic molecules and mitochondria via the Casimir and other quantum effects. ”
How, precisely? [Size of mitochondrial components 0.5 - 10 um is within the scale of strong CE]

Give me ONE way the Casimir effect could interact with mitochondria. That is, I require more than a mere assertion, but some plausible mechanism or description. [Size of mitochondrial structures on same scale as required for strong Casimir Effect; Ref: http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/biology/bio4fv/page/mito.htm]


Also "other quantum effects" is so vague as to be useless again [Includes other effects not yet observed].
“ Evolution
A progressive, self-perfecting process directed by quantum interactions and feedback loops ”
Directed how, exactly? [By intelligence source]

Give me ONE plausible way that "quantum interactions" could direct evolution.

And feedback loops of what, exactly? [Information]
“ Consciousness
Interaction of very small-scale organic brain functions (e.g., neurons, microtubules) with quantum level via Casimir and other quantum effects. ”
Once again, we have the catch-all phrase "other quantum effects". In other words, this is just pie-in-the-sky guesswork, or wishful thinking. Is the Casimir effect the only quantum effect you can put a name to? Is that why you keep mentioning it explicitly?
“ Spirituality
Reflection of additive mind knowledge of quantum realm interactons. ”
What is "additive mind knowledge" and how is it distinct from "knowledge"? [former knowledge + added (new) knowledge = additive knowledge]

How does one get "additive mind knowledeg" [via informational feedback]of quantum interactions, exactly? And why is this spiritual? [spirituality is a function of consciousness]Where are the spirits? [Dunno . . . didn’t mention ‘spirits’]
“ Purpose
Assumes direction from omnipresent intelligence source operating at quantum level. ”
What is your evidence for an omnipresent intelligence source? [No ‘evidence’ whatsoever]
How is an "omnipresent intelligence source" different from "God"? [Probably NO difference]Or is this just fancy language used to obscure a simple point?
Why must purpose assume direction from God? [Why NOT?]
“ Prayer
Synchronicity of goal-oriented quantum interactions among one or many; connections via quantum level. ”
Please explain exactly how prayer depends on quantum interactions of any kind. [Communication with an intelligence source]

What kinds of connections at the "quantum level" are you talking about, explicitly? Or is this just a wave of the hand again at "other quantum effects"?
“ Soul
Central, quantum level entity residing (perhaps holographically) throughout the brain/mind complex; consciousness, that evolves within a living structure (physical body/mind). Relies on physical attributes (e.g., senses) to reason existence, experience, and information. Additive feedback at the quantum level. Survives physical death at the quantum level. ”
What is this "quantum level" you keep talking about? Please explain. [quantum level = quark/gluon scale, or finer]

How can an entity reside holographically? What do you mean by that, exactly? [like . . . a hologram]

What is "additive feedback"? [an informational feedback loop that refines the quantum connectivity and knowledge transfer]

Where is your evidence for even the tiniest bit of this? [NONE WHATSOEVER . . .just my interpretation and a ‘G.U.T.’ (pun intended!) feeling]
“ God
One of many names constructed by humans to describe the omnipresent intelligence source underlying and pervading all of existence. Operational at the quantum level. Subtley and omnidirectionally interactive with the physical via Casimir and other quantum effects. ”
Ah yes, it must be the Casimir and "other" quantum effects, for sure. [For sure!]
---

Why is this nonsense in the Religion forum? [It deals with religious aspects of life]

Why waste your time with this kind of useless crap? [I think, therefore I am! Ref. R. Descartes]

You don't know anything about quantum physics. [From your perspective] You probably don't know much about religion. [From your perspective] All you have here is some scatterbrain thoughts that occurred to you in the shower or something [Maybe so]. Why subject the rest of us to them? [Because someone may be interested]

 

[James R]

wlminex:

Could you please learn how to use [noparse][/noparse] tags? Your reply is almost impossible to parse.

Once created, physical substance behavior is moderated by certain physical laws of thermodynamics. [1st, 2nd, and 3rd, at least]

So, you're saying that physical substances obey the laws of thermodynamics. Wow! What insight!

[Size of mitochondrial components 0.5 - 10 um is within the scale of strong CE]

What's a strong CE? Casimir Effect perhaps?

You have yet to give any kind of mechanism. Recall I asked:

Give me ONE way the Casimir effect could interact with mitochondria. That is, I require more than a mere assertion, but some plausible mechanism or description.

This:

[Size of mitochondrial structures on same scale as required for strong Casimir Effect; Ref: http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bi...page/mito.htm]

Is not a mechanism for interaction. Also, the link you gave doesn't work.

Also "other quantum effects" is so vague as to be useless again [Includes other effects not yet observed].

So you're saying that life-quantum interactions may be put down to quantum interactions that have not yet been observed? Wow. Insightful once again.

You missed this question:

Give me ONE plausible way that "quantum interactions" could direct evolution.

How does one get "additive mind knowledeg" [via informational feedback]of quantum interactions, exactly?

Explain for me how informational feedback works in quantum interactions. Thanks.

Why must purpose assume direction from God? [Why NOT?]

So that was just an empty thought of yours, was it?

Please explain exactly how prayer depends on quantum interactions of any kind. [Communication with an intelligence source]

You call that an explanation? Want to try again?

You missed this question, which is actually an important one:

What kinds of connections at the "quantum level" are you talking about, explicitly? Or is this just a wave of the hand again at "other quantum effects"?

How can an entity reside holographically? What do you mean by that, exactly? [like . . . a hologram]

How can an entity reside in a hologram? Your answers so far are not adding much to your opening post.

You don't know anything about quantum physics. [From your perspective]

No, this is a conclusion I draw from your posts.

You probably don't know much about religion. [From your perspective]

Ditto.

All you have here is some scatterbrain thoughts that occurred to you in the shower or something [Maybe so]. Why subject the rest of us to them? [Because someone may be interested]

Well, then you may be interested in my random thoughts:

Perhaps the universe was created by Mr Beagles the Superbunny using his magical thumping foot. Perhaps you and I are just quantum interactions within the intelligent source that is Mr Beagles. Perhaps Mr Beagles is God. Perhaps all prayers waft their way via other quantum effects directly to the quantum consciousness of the Superbunny. Perhaps, through quantum information feedback loops you and I think we're talking to each other across something called the Internet, when actually we are just information impulses created according to Mr Beagle's supreme will.

Now, mind you, I have no proof of any of this. This is just my out-of-the-box theory. But you might be interested.

How do you think my new theory of Religion stacks up against yours, wlminex? About as good? Better? Not quite as good?

 

[wlminex]

JamesR: Thanks (no sarcasm intended) for your insightful discussion(s)

 

[wlminex]

Perhaps the universe was created by Mr Beagles the Superbunny using his magical thumping foot. Perhaps you and I are just quantum interactions within the intelligent source that is Mr Beagles. Perhaps Mr Beagles is God. Perhaps all prayers waft their way via other quantum effects directly to the quantum consciousness of the Superbunny. Perhaps, through quantum information feedback loops you and I think we're talking to each other across something called the Internet, when actually we are just information impulses created according to Mr Beagle's supreme will.

Now, mind you, I have no proof of any of this. This is just my out-of-the-box theory. But you might be interested.

James R: I guess YOU are being sarcastic here?? Actually, your sarcastic analogy may be closer to the truth than you realize!

 

[wellwisher]

An important question to ask is, why quanta in the first place? We know quanta exist and underly the smallest levels of matter and energy, but why? The answer to that question will have an impact of subsequent analysis for life within a quantum universe.

As a way to answer this, we can simulate quanta using things you can find around the house. For example, if you consider a video recording, if you look frame to frame, you should notice what appears to be something analogous to quantum states within the action on the film. Between each frame, is a pause, then the next frame, then a pause, then a frame, etc. If we have 10 frames per second there are nine pauses per second. The frames, like quanta do not exist in the pauses.

For example, energy defines quanta, but mathematically we can calculate the spaces between which lie in the gaps between these distinct quanta. Life fills in the gaps and pauses that are created by a quantum universe.

For example, technology can create new things which would not naturally occur on the earth. The earth has it own version of natural quanta. Humans fill in the gaps that will never happen on their own, since quanta skip these pauses.

There is a logic to this. In our film or video example, the frame rate is based on energy and time. We have our film strip with quantum frames. Each frame is discontinuous to the previous or next. To make this happen, we need a mechanism that can open and close the shutter based on time. This shutter action takes energy. Without energy there is no mechanism, no quantum frames and no gaps. But if the energy is sufficient to define both the frames as well as the gaps we have quanta. Life make uses of the gap energy, while quanta use the rest. One implies the other since one mechanism will define both in time (shutter speed).

The spiritual POV has some legs since the gap is not matter based since the matter of quanta don't exist there, yet it still has a life of its own.

 

[wlminex]

wellwisher: Makes sense to me! . . . . . but what do I know . . . . acc/to James R, I know nothing about quantum physics, nor religion.

wlminex/SSU

 

[Arioch]

@wellwisher --

As a way to answer this, we can simulate quanta using things you can find around the house.

No we can't. They behave in two strikingly different manners. There aren't enough points of commonality for any such simulation to take place. That, of course, won't stop you from deluding yourself into thinking that you've struck a blow for your pet cause, but your argument is invalid.

 

[Pincho Paxton]

An important question to ask is, why quanta in the first place? We know quanta exist and underly the smallest levels of matter and energy, but why? The answer to that question will have an impact of subsequent analysis for life within a quantum universe.

As a way to answer this, we can simulate quanta using things you can find around the house. For example, if you consider a video recording, if you look frame to frame, you should notice what appears to be something analogous to quantum states within the action on the film. Between each frame, is a pause, then the next frame, then a pause, then a frame, etc. If we have 10 frames per second there are nine pauses per second. The frames, like quanta do not exist in the pauses.

For example, energy defines quanta, but mathematically we can calculate the spaces between which lie in the gaps between these distinct quanta. Life fills in the gaps and pauses that are created by a quantum universe.

For example, technology can create new things which would not naturally occur on the earth. The earth has it own version of natural quanta. Humans fill in the gaps that will never happen on their own, since quanta skip these pauses.

There is a logic to this. In our film or video example, the frame rate is based on energy and time. We have our film strip with quantum frames. Each frame is discontinuous to the previous or next. To make this happen, we need a mechanism that can open and close the shutter based on time. This shutter action takes energy. Without energy there is no mechanism, no quantum frames and no gaps. But if the energy is sufficient to define both the frames as well as the gaps we have quanta. Life make uses of the gap energy, while quanta use the rest. One implies the other since one mechanism will define both in time (shutter speed).

The spiritual POV has some legs since the gap is not matter based since the matter of quanta don't exist there, yet it still has a life of its own.

This idea is using entire frames then becomes single pixels, and then the single pixels become energy. When you only have energy left that energy is scale. Scale is the missing link. Scale is like an opening flower.