Psychological reasoning behind religious belief.

A

answers

Registered Senior Member
These are just my thoughts. Was just wondering if anyone has any information to add to my theories. Lol a lot of my ideas are based on Anthony Robbins human needs psychological councelling methods. They aren't as scientific as cognitive behavioural psycotherapy, but to me they just make heaps of sense. Anyway here goes.

The main reason why religion survives today is because it fulfils our human needs. We need:

1: Certainty
2: Variety
3: Significance
4: Love and connection
5: Growth
6: Contribution

Why do people believe in God and have a religion?

Because it gives them CERTAINTY that their soul is safe.

VARIETY in their relationship and walk with God.

SIGNIFICANCE as a child of God.

LOVE AND CONNECTION with God.

GROWTH as a Christian becoming more pure.

CONTRIBUTION to the church and God's family.

EVERY SINGLE HUMAN NEED FULFILLED.

People will do anything to fulfil their human needs. ANYTHING! Denial, they will even imagine certain things to make them feel like they have those needs fulfilled. People hold onto their religious belief just like a drug addict will hold onto their addiction. Because it is how they live their life, how they fulfil their needs. Obviously they are fulfilling their needs in a much more constructive way, but my point is that when your needs are being fulfilled by something so thoroughly...then why question it? Why listen to objections? Why listen to that nagging voice in the back of your head that says ‘that doesn’t sound right’. Religion isn’t so much as faith, but rather the denial of logical reasoning in order to allow a belief system that fulfils your needs.
 
You have a very optimistic view.

I would say it is because it plays on such things as fear, like fear of hell, fear of out groups, fear of ostracization, fear of the unknown; lust, like lust for heaven, lust for power, lust for control, lust for riches, lust for authority; and as a means of hiding their ignorance.

Add to this a persecution complex so that any critique is an attack and a requirement to recruit by any means no matter how vile and you have a perfect self reinforcing system.
 
Religion is a place for everyone to give the blame to something else besides themselves. They cannot help themselves so they must rely upon something other than themselves to get by.

The people enjoy being together so religion is a way to have a large gathering of people who think alike to form a communal bond.
 
"I would say it is because it plays on such things as fear, like fear of hell, fear of out groups, fear of ostracization, fear of the unknown; lust, like lust for heaven, lust for power, lust for control, lust for riches, lust for authority; and as a means of hiding their ignorance."

Those fall into the 6 needs as well, but it is the opposite, the fear of not being significant, the fear of not being certain, the fear of not having relationships.

At the core of every action people do, there are two desires. The desire to attain pleasure, and the desire to avoid pain. It isn't simply the desire to fulfill your needs and gain pleasure which motivates people, but also the fear of the pain (which leads to avoidance) of not fulfilling those needs.

So we actually agree 100%, I probably just didn't make it clear at the start.
 
answers said:
"I would say it is because it plays on such things as fear, like fear of hell, fear of out groups, fear of ostracization, fear of the unknown; lust, like lust for heaven, lust for power, lust for control, lust for riches, lust for authority; and as a means of hiding their ignorance."

Those fall into the 6 needs as well, but it is the opposite, the fear of not being significant, the fear of not being certain, the fear of not having relationships.

At the core of every action people do, there are two desires. The desire to attain pleasure, and the desire to avoid pain. It isn't simply the desire to fulfill your needs and gain pleasure which motivates people, but also the fear of the pain (which leads to avoidance) of not fulfilling those needs.

So we actually agree 100%, I probably just didn't make it clear at the start.
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Do people not desire to grow out of the cycle of their perception of pleasure/pain? A certain amount of fear is not necessarily bad, it does not directly lead to avoidance unless you wish to live in your fear.

Fear is like a cage. the more you have the stronger the temper of the steel bars. This cage will protect you and doom you, as you will die there.
 
rj there is nothing wrong with fear. Fear is a NECESSITY of life. You should see what happens to people with damage to their amygdala and are incapable of fear. Not beneficial.

Fear of pain, is the strongest motivating power in this world. It is stronger than any desire for plessure. Michael Jordan made a huge comeback in his career after he experienced huge amounts of pain from yet another loss in the finals. So many inspirational changes happen when people, motivated by the fear of experiencing that pain again, decide that they are better than this and will overcome and push on.

You need pain, in some ways more than you need plessure.
 
answers said:
rj there is nothing wrong with fear. Fear is a NECESSITY of life. You should see what happens to people with damage to their amygdala and are incapable of fear. Not beneficial.

Fear of pain, is the strongest motivating power in this world. It is stronger than any desire for plessure. Michael Jordan made a huge comeback in his career after he experienced huge amounts of pain from yet another loss in the finals. So many inspirational changes happen when people, motivated by the fear of experiencing that pain again, decide that they are better than this and will overcome and push on.

You need pain, in some ways more than you need plessure.
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There are numerous things I am not afraid of yet avoid for my better health & safety.
 
answers said:
At the core of every action people do, there are two desires. The desire to attain pleasure, and the desire to avoid pain.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I can't agree with this kind of reductionism. While pleasure and pain are important, they are not definitive and not all actions boil down to a desire to attain pleasure or a desire to avoid pain.
 
No need to be afraid? Even from an evolutionary perspective you'd have to agree it would be beneficial to be afraid of guns. You think it would be better not to be afraid of guns and the pain that they could cause you?

Give me an example of where the motivating factor behind a decision wasn't based on either the desire to avoid pain, or the desire to attain pleasure?

And rehashed religion? What a load of crap. You can't call everything you don't agree with religion in order to justify dismissing it.
 
Also I think you can suppress a fear response to pain, but it is still there. Like when you learned to avoid touching the stove top as a kid. You might not be afraid of the stove top, but you'll avoid it because of pain right? ... Well actually if someone had your face an inch away from the stove top and was about to push it into the hot plate, then I'm sure you would be afraid. If not you would have suppressed the fear, but the response would still be there.

Give me an example of a painful thing which you aren't afraid of?
 
answers said:
Also I think you can suppress a fear response to pain, but it is still there. Like when you learned to avoid touching the stove top as a kid. You might not be afraid of the stove top, but you'll avoid it because of pain right? ... Well actually if someone had your face an inch away from the stove top and was about to push it into the hot plate, then I'm sure you would be afraid. If not you would have suppressed the fear, but the response would still be there.

Give me an example of a painful thing which you aren't afraid of?
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What is your definition of pleasure?
 
The definition of pleasure is dependent on the individual. However broadly speaking, it is simply pleasurable emotions. There are many emotions that would fall into this category, namely happiness, enjoyment, love, etc...

In a practical sense pleasure really is dependent on the individual, as neurological conditioning determines what you will in fact find pleasurable. For example if every time you greeted a friend you shook their hand, you would find shaking someones hand pleasurable rather than something painful and to be avoided. However other cultures greet each other differently, I can't remember which culture it is exactly, but I know of one that greets each other by spitting on their friends chest instead of a handshake. Now we in a western culture would not find that pleasurable and something to be avoided, however in this other particular culture it would be found just as pleasurable as we find greeting a friend by shaking their hand.
 
answers said:
The definition of pleasure is dependent on the individual. However broadly speaking, it is simply pleasurable emotions. There are many emotions that would fall into this category, namely happiness, enjoyment, love, etc...

In a practical sense pleasure really is dependent on the individual, as neurological conditioning determines what you will in fact find pleasurable. For example if every time you greeted a friend you shook their hand, you would find shaking someones hand pleasurable rather than something painful and to be avoided. However other cultures greet each other differently, I can't remember which culture it is exactly, but I know of one that greets each other by spitting on their friends chest instead of a handshake. Now we in a western culture would not find that pleasurable and something to be avoided, however in this other particular culture it would be found just as pleasurable as we find greeting a friend by shaking their hand.
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Maybe not all humans act for the result/avoidance of certain emotions. Seeking God is a way to relieve this condition; He is not created by it.
 
Humans are social creatures. They need a sense of belonging. A lot of people also need some sort of reassurance that their lives will continue after this one expires. Religion provides both of that. It gives them a sense of belonging and a belief that everything will be alright.
I think it's the same principle as using sugar pills on hypochondriacs. They think they are sick and since they think they are, when you give them a sugar pill and tell them it's something else, they will eat the pill and since the think the pill will cure what they think they have, that will make them feel better.
 
swarm said:
I'm afraid I can't agree with this kind of reductionism. While pleasure and pain are important, they are not definitive and not all actions boil down to a desire to attain pleasure or a desire to avoid pain.
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Interesting, I vaguely remember discussing this in psych 101. What actions do not root from the pleasure of the effects of the action, or the performing of the action? Conversely, of those actions, which do not root from the avoidance of pain?

I am hardpressed to think of anything I do that does not root in pleasure, or avoidance of pain.

Even duty is pleasurable. Taking a bullet for the sake of a loved one would bring a bit of both pain and pleasure. I'd say in this case, it is love and/or duty which exist because it is pleasurable to know that you have extended the life of another.

Maybe i'm off track...
 
answers said:
These are just my thoughts. Was just wondering if anyone has any information to add to my theories. Lol a lot of my ideas are based on Anthony Robbins human needs psychological councelling methods. They aren't as scientific as cognitive behavioural psycotherapy, but to me they just make heaps of sense. Anyway here goes.

The main reason why religion survives today is because it fulfils our human needs. We need:

1: Certainty
2: Variety
3: Significance
4: Love and connection
5: Growth
6: Contribution

Why do people believe in God and have a religion?

Because it gives them CERTAINTY that their soul is safe.

VARIETY in their relationship and walk with God.

SIGNIFICANCE as a child of God.

LOVE AND CONNECTION with God.

GROWTH as a Christian becoming more pure.

CONTRIBUTION to the church and God's family.

EVERY SINGLE HUMAN NEED FULFILLED.

People will do anything to fulfil their human needs. ANYTHING! Denial, they will even imagine certain things to make them feel like they have those needs fulfilled. People hold onto their religious belief just like a drug addict will hold onto their addiction. Because it is how they live their life, how they fulfil their needs. Obviously they are fulfilling their needs in a much more constructive way, but my point is that when your needs are being fulfilled by something so thoroughly...then why question it? Why listen to objections? Why listen to that nagging voice in the back of your head that says ‘that doesn’t sound right’. Religion isn’t so much as faith, but rather the denial of logical reasoning in order to allow a belief system that fulfils your needs.
Click to expand...


Um... what about religions that don't believe in god? Like Buddhism? It's still a religion. Or does it make it less of a religion because its not theist?

Of the 6 things you listed...
1: Certainty
2: Variety
3: Significance
4: Love and connection
5: Growth
6: Contribution
I can find all of those in Buddhism. Hell, I can find all of those outside of religion in general. More importantly, can I find those things within myself.
 
answers,

While there are many, it seems to me most theists would stop worshiping their God (or Alien Overlord) IF they were not promised everlasting paradise after they die.

So, it seems, that's the main hook - IMO,
M
 
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