Psuedoscience in Russia: Exposed

SkinWalker

SkinWalker

Archaeology / Anthropology
Moderator
This article outlines some recent exposure of Russian psuedoscientists.

Technical Physics Letters, one of the premiere journals of physics in Russia, recently published an article by V.V. Roschin and S.M. Godin called, "Experimental Investigation of the Physical Effects in a Dynamic Magnetic System." The authors suggested that they had succeeded in producing antigravation by reducing the weight of an object from 350 kg to 250 kg. They also apparently discovered "magnetic walls" 15 m from the axis of their device.

The publications editors apologized for missing the pseudoscientific edge of the article and noted that the authors attempted to get credibility by publishing on behalf of the Institute for High Temperatures, which, it turns out, has no affilitation with these con artists.

Also from this article is this excerpt:

A group of Russian swindlers are seeking investors for their pseudoscientific projects based on what they call "torsion technologies". The pseudoscientists promise to quickly build "torsion flying saucers", "torsion communications", and "torsion weapons".

There are some posted replies to the article, one in particular seems to take the side of the "swindlers" who accuses the article's author of "working" for the establishment that seeks to suppress knowledge, etc., etc..... the same stuff we see associated with wild claims that end up here all the time.

Anyway, I thought it might be interesting to look at different forms of pseudoscience throughout the world and see if anyone wishes to post comments in support or against those exposed. This particular case reminds me of the anti-gravity malarky that crazymikey used to try convincing us all of.
 
yes it sure sounds like the things he was trying to say

Look. the Russians, Mexicans, and any other damned country in the world ARENT AFRAID to try new things... only America is scared. Its so selfish, and to know that US and Soviets may have been working behind the scenes together on Alien Technology, and to know that NOW the Russians are coming OUT to expose the technology- MAKES US INFERIOR IF THEY SUCCEED !

All i can say here is that UFO fanatics and Alien researchers have been YELLING "MAGNETICS IS THEY KEY!!" and now finally some assholes have the decency to come out and acknowledge this.

good riddance !

finally
 
Beware the Alien Technology gap!

(And while you're at it, beware of snake-oil salesmen.)
 
Look. the Russians, Mexicans, and any other damned country in the world ARENT AFRAID to try new things

Yeah, Mexico's space program is really going places.....oh wait.
 
zonabi said:
yes it sure sounds like the things he was trying to say

Look. the Russians, Mexicans, and any other damned country in the world ARENT AFRAID to try new things... only America is scared. Its so selfish, and to know that US and Soviets may have been working behind the scenes together on Alien Technology, and to know that NOW the Russians are coming OUT to expose the technology- MAKES US INFERIOR IF THEY SUCCEED !

All i can say here is that UFO fanatics and Alien researchers have been YELLING "MAGNETICS IS THEY KEY!!" and now finally some assholes have the decency to come out and acknowledge this.

good riddance !

finally
Click to expand...

Actually, the U.S. does plenty. It's just either done by the government and therefore top secret, or it's done by the private sector under heavy cloak do to the nature of capitalism. It's the American way.

However, there is no real solid proof either way, is there? Not that can be scientifically proven beyond doubt. Therefore, it is like God and some will believe, and some will wait and see for themselves.
 
nope. just other people are scared to have anythig to do with them and their controversial work so they clean up their act and deny things.
 
zonabi said:
nope. just other people are scared to have anythig to do with them and their controversial work so they clean up their act and deny things.
Click to expand...

If that's the case why don't you repeat their experiments, validate their findings, and make yourself a pile of cash?

Why is it that the woowoos always want somebody else to prove their pet theories?

It's simple. Get an understanding of physics, and do the experiment. Don't moan about how it's being stifled, just get on and do it. Or, do you think you are incapable of reaching that level of understanding of physics? If that's the case, don't you think that's maybe why you believe this stuff?
 
You guys, cool it on the insults and derogatory remarks to people on here.
Its just getting to be ignorant and unneccessary.
Show some respect to the members here.
Please and thank you.
 
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And again, have these guys in Russia been proven to be quacks or what?
I personaly beleive that anti-gravity applications will indeed be one day possible.
I am smart enough to know that I won't be the one to discover it, even with the vote of confidence from Phlog.
I don't see what seems so impossible about it.
Peace on earth, now that seems impossible, but anti -gravity, why not?
We made it to the moon.
You know what people used to call those who beleived it was possible to one day reach the moon?........Lunies.
From lunar, they were called lunies.
I guess if you have to resort to name calling you can call me ......a Gravitie, or a possibiltie.
Isn't it sooooo easy to cut people down about anything?
I am totaly guilty of it myself.
I tell yah, first gut reaction to things and topics I don't like is to cut people down.
Whats easier than insulting people?
Name one thing.
It's emototionaly reactive.
So I don't blame anyone for it, I just can't admire anyone for it either.
It does give some what of an opportunity for guys like Black and Phlog to bond.
So I guess it can't be all bad.
These psuedo people, fucking quacks eh?
What a bunch of lunies.
Now, react.
 
Once there was a doomsday cult. They thought the world would end.

Then it didn't. Now we call them Seventh Day Adventists.

Some things, like going to the Moon or anti-gravity, are of course possible.
That does not mean that they are possible at present. For example, the US would have a pretty hard time getting to the Moon right now...

On the other hand, it is often the case that a pseudoscience type will state that the outlandishness of their claim, or the strength of their belief in it, or the number of supporters it has (whether many or few), has anything to do with whether it's true or not.

Who cares if a thousand forum-goers yell "Magnets are the key!"?

I bet that anti-gravity will also involve "electricity", as if that were any kind of meaningful statement. Even if it eventually does, that does not
1) make me right, or
2) make my statement predictive or helpful.

Oftentimes, a person will want to be vindicated as right, without having to go to the trouble of knowing or understanding anything; agreement from other members of the club, therefore, becomes proof to them.

The fact is, the Russians are renting out their space program because they don't have enough money. If they really had anti-gravity right now, they would sell it to anyone who would buy it because - honestly - who cares if everyone has anti-gravity anyway? It's not as if we don't already have aircraft.
 
I understand everything you have said Big Blue, and agree completely.
I have to admit that it may be my own fault in wanting to respect everyones opinion on Sci-forms. Even the crazy shit, but if it's that freaking wacky I just stay out of it.
However, if I have no direct knowledge one way or the other of a topic, it being realistic or an impossibilty, I remain open to further investigation, not shutting off all possibility and making derogatory remarks to those who don't.
Maybe it's just the beleif I have in myself of whats possible that I push on others.
I think of guys like Edison who failed over 10,000 times before getting the electric lightbulb to work.
The wright brothers.
Now that I think of it, it probly all comes down to ones references for what we would deem as "possible".Or realistic.
I have in my mind countless references to people who have succeeded in spite of enormous odds, naysayers, and even violence.
Acheiving tremendous breakthroughs in personal challenges or scientific breakthroughs.
And even now, after all of the technology we have acheived in such a short time only adds to my confidence in what is to become.
I just don't see how cutting off all posibility to acheive something helps in anyway.
How would anything ever be acheived if it were not first thought possible.

It all starts with an idea and a beleif.
I just see minds closed to what can be possible.
It shouldn't bother me this much, and from now on it won't.
I don't see whats so hard about suspending judgement on an issue until proof arises one way or the other.

Every one...carry on.
React.
 
Heres a point for you with magnetics, If you use a magnetic field to generate a craft that floats (as a particular Brazillian engineer has alledged to have), you would realise that what ever mass you have in the craft has to be "displaced" through all molecules within the atmosphere. The higher you climb in your craft, the greater amount of energy and magnetic output would be needed to deal with the lessening number of molecules since the atmosphere begins to thin out.

Eventually if you got to space, you would have to use great amounts of energy to cause magnetic attraction for propulsion and then of course repulsion to stop/slow down. You could use inertia to drift in most cases, but you wouldn't necessary be able to control how you slow/speed up since thats also based on your relationship with bodies that have a greater mass than yourself.

I personally think the whole method of generating space craft like this, is all wrong because we tend to perceive that we need an engine or prepulsion system in the craft. We shouldn't need an one in reality.
 
momentum7: I think that these guys are, indeed, "quacks."

Not because of the desire to achieve anti-gravity, but becuase of their methodology. Take the moon for example. The goal of going to and landing on the moon, while outlandish to many, was pure science to those involved. Mostly a math problem. However, this quote is pure fiction:
Jules Vernes said:
Suffer me to finish," he calmly continued. "I have looked at the question in all its bearings, I have resolutely attacked it, and by incontrovertible calculations I find that a projectile endowed with an initial velocity of 12,000 yards per second, and aimed at the moon, must necessarily reach it.
Click to expand...
True enough, Barbicane was a fictional character in book of fiction (From the Earth to the Moon), but therein lies a difference between science and pseudoscience.

Pseudoscientists use facts to base a fiction around. But not just any facts, they seek those facts that give rise to feelings of hope and desire or confirmation of beliefs among people. Anti-gravity would be a wonderous thing indeed. The mere wording opens the imagination to possibilities among possibilities. But the methods in which these gentleman have gone about their work are flawed. The experiments were unable to be reproduced.

The cure for AIDS is a noble cause and most scientists will agree that its an attainable goal with sustained research. But if it were published in a journal that a cure had been isolated but nobody but the original researchers were able to demonstrate it's ability to neutralize the virus, would you wonder if they were quacks? Would you be willing to fund them? Would you be ashamed as an editor for letting them get past your peer review panel?

Another example is cloning. There's no doubt among most of the world's leading scientists that human cloning is close to being a reality. To verify this statement, one need only search the peer review journals of recent months and see articles and papers referring to the ethics involved. Yet is there still any question of whether or not "CloneAid" was able to create the first human clone? Where's the evidence? It should be a couple of years old by now... walking and talking. Potty trained even.

Its not the outlandish idea that's pseudoscience. Its the methodology.
 
Moementum7, I think the fact that you are missing, is that real scientists are looking into gravity, and if it's possible, they will find a way to make anti-gravity. Also, there are far more real scientists looking into it than self promoting quacks luckily, so the die are rather loaded in the favour of solid scientific methodology finding the answers.

Have you not noticed that the best brains on the planet haven't been able to recreate these quacks experiments? It's not some great big conspiracy, if the quacks have published their experiment correctly, anyone on the planet could recreate it, no government could stifle that. But, nobody has validated the work, and I think if it showed any promise at all, like integrated circuits and silicon chips did, there'd be venture capitalists throwing money at scientists to crack it, and that just ins't happening.

PS, 'Loonies, Lunatics are called such because it was believed that their lunacy was in phase with the moon;

Main Entry: lu·na·tic
Pronunciation: 'lü-n&-"tik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English lunatik, from Old French or Late Latin; Old French lunatique, from Late Latin lunaticus, from Latin luna; from the belief that lunacy fluctuated with the phases of the moon
1 a : affected with lunacy : INSANE b : designed for the care of insane persons <lunatic asylum>
2 : wildly foolish
- lunatic noun

Where did you get the moon shot explanation from? Did you make that up?
 
moementum7 said:
I think of guys like Edison who failed over 10,000 times before getting the electric lightbulb to work.
Click to expand...

The light bulb was around for years before Edison "invented" it; Edison's achievement was developing a light bulb that would last any length of time. The principle had already been demonstrated before this.

http://www.ushistory.net/toc/electricity.html

Edison was, first and foremost, a businessman. That's why reading about his fight with Tesla is kind of amusing...
 
to imagine the americans and the soviets working together is ... absolutely horrid. The soviets and americans could nto get along, and i gaurantee it was not a facade either. If it was, then stalin was a very good actor, even in his personal letter, the same goes for lenin, and if china was involved, then same for mao. Though, i would suggest reading them, since they do put an interesting spin on the cold war.
 
Thanks Skins, Phlog, and Big Blue.
I very much indeed appreciate your responses.
I understand what you are saying.
You got through to me Skins.
I can honestly say that I understand both sides now.
Thanks.
No Pholg, I didn't make that up, I'm not that creative. I heard that saying from somewhere, can't remember where.
Peace Out.
 
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