Proof of the supernatural

[Bells]

from my experience, going to haunted places is a bad thing, you might attach an evil spirit to yourself and it could follow you to your house.

From your experience...

Because this has happened to you before?

it's not really a crazy superstition if you believe in demons and evil forces, a lot of people claim they got 'haunted' after they dabbled with the occult

You do realise that believing in demons and evil forces is a crazy superstition and may be indicative that something is wrong, right?

well, it's not really something I believed in until it started to affect my life, but I'm very thankful I did something about it.

You must have believed in it if you felt it affected your life..

 

[brokenbutnotbeat]

From your experience...

Because this has happened to you before?


You do realise that believing in demons and evil forces is a crazy superstition and may be indicative that something is wrong, right?


You must have believed in it if you felt it affected your life..

yes, bad things have happened to me before

indicative of bad things? Are you saying im crazy, you must not know many people in real life, there are many who believe in things you don't, and we live normal lives too,

i wasn't born with the belief in demons, incidents have happened that made me believe in them.

 

[Bells]

What makes you believe it is demons and not something else?

That's the point I was getting at..

 

[brokenbutnotbeat]

What makes you believe it is demons and not something else?

That's the point I was getting at..

beliefs and what made the most sense to me, it defied rational explanation

 

[Dywyddyr]

beliefs

So the beliefs that you already held led you to believe?

it defied rational explanation

All this shows is that you didn't look hard enough - a failure on YOUR part is not evidence of the supernatural.

 

[garbonzo]

No, you haven't.
My car didn't start this morning the first time I tried. I didn't know why. It was unexplained. Still is. Ooh, must be the supernatural!!
Still think they're synonymous?

We know the mechanics and explanations behind why cars don't start. Try again.

 

[Daecon]

We know the mechanics and explanations behind why cars don't start. Try again.

No. You try again.

Unexplained does not mean supernatural.

 

[garbonzo]

Rubbish!
Ever seen Dynamo" the Magician?
Check him out. I havn't a clue how he performs some of his stuff, but I also know its not supernatural.

Just because you don't know something doesn't mean others don't. Truly unexplained things such as the story in the OP or this story are real supernatural phenomena. UFOs and supernatural events are both real. We don't know if these UFOs are ET, and we don't know what causes the supernatural events. They are both mysteries.

 

[garbonzo]

No. You try again.

Unexplained does not mean supernatural.

 

[Bells]

beliefs and what made the most sense to me,

You claimed you did not believe in demons before, but now you appear to be saying you did..

How can demons make the most sense to you when you supposedly did not believe in demons?

How can demons make the most sense in the first place? What led you to believe it was demons?

it defied rational explanation

And believing in demons was rational?

Did you consider all other options? Seek help from trained scientific professionals first, before you arrived at "demons"?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Truly unexplained things such as the story in the OP or this story are real supernatural phenomena. UFOs and supernatural events are both real. We don't know if these UFOs are ET, and we don't know what causes the supernatural events. They are both mysteries.

In other words - "Just because you don't know something doesn't mean others don't" - they're not "real supernatural phenomena" they're just (currently) unexplained, yes?

Oh, "UFOs and supernatural events are both real" - sure. For a variable value of "real".

 

[garbonzo]

In other words - "Just because you don't know something doesn't mean others don't" - they're not "real supernatural phenomena" they're just (currently) unexplained, yes?

Real supernatural phenomena is currently unexplained.

Oh, "UFOs and supernatural events are both real" - sure. For a variable value of "real".

There is no rational person who doesn't know that UFOs are real. Only those that are ignorant and don't know the definition of what a UFO is. It is not the definition of "real" that you do not understand.

 

[paddoboy]

Truly unexplained things such as the story in the OP or this story are real supernatural phenomena.

Truly unexplained things are truly unexplained.......not supernatural.

UFOs and supernatural events are both real.

They are really unexplained.....UFOs remain UFOs, and supernatuarl events do not happen......Unexplained does not equate to supernatural.

We don't know if these UFOs are ET,

Correct...If they were ET, they would not be UFOs.

and we don't know what causes the supernatural events. They are both mysteries.

They are unexplained. Unexplained does not mean supernatural.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Real supernatural phenomena is currently unexplained.

Or just natural but unexplained.

There is no rational person who doesn't know that UFOs are real. Only those that are ignorant and don't know the definition of what a UFO is. It is not the definition of "real" that you do not understand.

They're real in that they're UNIDENTIFIED. They may not be flying, and they may not be objects (which is why the correct term is UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomena).

 

[garbonzo]

Or just natural but unexplained.

How do you know it is natural if it is unexplained?

They're real in that they're UNIDENTIFIED. They may not be flying, and they may not be objects (which is why the correct term is UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomena).

Exactly. Supernatural phenomena fits similarly.

 

[Daecon]

How do you know it is natural if it is unexplained?

Because if it wasn't natural then it couldn't exist.

Suppose that one day ghosts were proven to be real and there becomes a whole field of science dedicated to studying what they're made of, how they work, where they come from, and so on. That would then mean ghosts are a natural phenomenon.

 

[brokenbutnotbeat]

You claimed you did not believe in demons before, but now you appear to be saying you did..

How can demons make the most sense to you when you supposedly did not believe in demons?

How can demons make the most sense in the first place? What led you to believe it was demons?


And believing in demons was rational?

Did you consider all other options? Seek help from trained scientific professionals first, before you arrived at "demons"?

I guess the word 'demons' makes some people think of video game monsters, but it's more like karma,

As for not believing before I actually believed in demons, well, I knew there were evil forces in this world, because I was taught so, but only later did i realize that these evil forces could influence human minds and affect lives.

when things went really wrong for my family, and dealing with these evil entities made things better, that's all the proof i need.

 

[Dywyddyr]

How do you know it is natural if it is unexplained?

I didn't say unexplained = natural.
What I wrote was "Or just natural but unexplained".
Did you not notice the word "or"?

Exactly. Supernatural phenomena fits similarly.

And natural ones.

 

[Bells]

I guess the word 'demons' makes some people think of video game monsters, but it's more like karma,

As for not believing before I actually believed in demons, well, I knew there were evil forces in this world, because I was taught so, but only later did i realize that these evil forces could influence human minds and affect lives.

when things went really wrong for my family, and dealing with these evil entities made things better, that's all the proof i need.

Karma means that you feel you deserved it, in some way shape or form, because of some misdeed in your past.. The whole 'what goes around comes around'.. How does that tie in with "evil forces"?

You still haven't explained why you believe it was demons. What led you down the path of demons as opposed to more tangible things that could actually affect one's family (as the example you provided) in a negative way?

Because when things go wrong in life, the greater majority of people do not assume demons as you explained it. They look at what is actually affecting them.. For example, if it was something to do with illness... That is obviously something that you would look to see about treatments, possible surgeries, ongoing treatment, how it affects the person's way of life and the lives of those around them. That is a rational way or dealing with it. What is not rational is the belief that it is or must be demons or evil forces or even karma.

 

[Dywyddyr]

As for not believing before I actually believed in demons, well, I knew there were evil forces in this world

You didn't know, you believed.

but only later did i realize that these evil forces could influence human minds and affect lives

Presumably you're talking about things like Unthinking Credulity.

when things went really wrong for my family, and dealing with these evil entities made things better, that's all the proof i need.

In other words you didn't actually think about it, just decided to go with an insupportable belief.