Proof of the supernatural

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When you can provide extraordinary evidence, science will listen to your extraordinary claims.

"Because I said so" is not extraordinary evidence.
 
Daecon said:
When you can provide extraordinary evidence, science will listen to your extraordinary claims.

"Because I said so" is not extraordinary evidence.
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But yet it is. How many times have you accepted scientific theories without looking into the nitty gritty details? Did you look at all the papers when they found the Higgs Boson? No, you accepted them at their word. That's how things work...until when it comes to something you don't like.
 
garbonzo said:
Investigators who don't find anything are called scientists and skeptics and praised by the scientific community. Those same investigators that find something are called kooks, idiotic, and untrustworthy.
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Mmm... no. Those that investigate and find nothing, nobody is surprised. Those that find "something", the something is rightfully scrutinized... so far, it has never withstood said scrutiny.

That's how science works... it is the finding of the truth... no matter how much you and others may want it to be some giant conspiracy to "hide the supernatural world" or whatever it is you believe.
 
Kittamaru said:
Mmm... no. Those that investigate and find nothing, nobody is surprised. Those that find "something", the something is rightfully scrutinized... so far, it has never withstood said scrutiny.

That's how science works... it is the finding of the truth... no matter how much you and others may want it to be some giant conspiracy to "hide the supernatural world" or whatever it is you believe.
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No scientific "scrutiny" is ever applied. It's easy to just say they made it up, that's not evidence against it.
 
garbonzo said:
No scientific "scrutiny" is ever applied. It's easy to just say they made it up, that's not evidence against it.
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That is not accurate. There has been scientific study in these areas. The problem is that every study has not yielded anything supporting the super natural. So it is the rare researcher who is willing to waste his time going back over this unfruitful area.
 
garbonzo said:
"Super Skeptics" such as yourself never fail to amaze me. You can't accept a supernatural event so you come up with explanations that don't even make sense. Why? At least say it was unexplained, instead of saying, "their eyes were messed up by looking at the sun". Why can't you look at that explanation and realize how stupid that reasoning is? It's not rational.
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If you stare at the sun for any length of time, you will damage your eyes and you will see spots, swirls, lines and even the sun change colour and even move.

This was not a supernatural event. It was a bunch of people staring at the sun for a length of time and then claiming they saw a miracle and that Mary, mother of Jesus was making the sun move and dance. A miracle they were expecting to see at 'high noon', because they had been told that something was going to happen in the sky to make them believe.

There were many journalists and photographers present, none of them saw what some in that large crowd saw. Perhaps because they were not staring at the sun and were instead talking to people and taking images and descriptions of what they saw the people doing. Just as many believers who were there, hoping for a miracle, saw and experienced nothing. Perhaps they were not staring at the sun for lengths of time.

And then we only have to look at the children involved in the 'visions', the three children. Two of whom died not long after the whole so called event. The eldest of the two girls, a girl who at her very early communion said that a statue she was praying to smiled at her in the Church and who was described as a child with an amazing gift for storytelling. Gee, because that isn't suspicious at all, is it?


Saying "there was no event" when there were over 30,000 eyewitnesses that say the same thing is beyond reason and logic.
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Mass hysteria is an awful thing. The hint of mere suggestion and staring at the sun can result in thousands of people seeing many things. And no, not everyone saw the same thing. Some saw the sun spin in the sky, others saw it rush towards them, others still saw it change colour, and others saw it zig zag across the sky. That is what happens when you stare at the sun.

I should, however correct something I wrote in that previous post. I should have said over 30,000 were present, but not everyone there saw it. Many saw nothing untoward or weird at all.


You call yourself an intellectual when you believe idiotic fallacies such as this? How do you explain the people who saw the event and weren't even looking at the sun until they saw the event?
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Mass hysteria.

Human history is, sadly, full of episodes of mass hysteria. Burning women, men and children at the stake because of mass hysteria that they were witches is just one example.
 
Stare at your reflection in the mirror for a couple of minutes in very dim lighting...
 
Bells said:
If you stare at the sun for any length of time, you will damage your eyes and you will see spots, swirls, lines and even the sun change colour and even move.

This was not a supernatural event. It was a bunch of people staring at the sun for a length of time and then claiming they saw a miracle and that Mary, mother of Jesus was making the sun move and dance. A miracle they were expecting to see at 'high noon', because they had been told that something was going to happen in the sky to make them believe.

There were many journalists and photographers present, none of them saw what some in that large crowd saw. Perhaps because they were not staring at the sun and were instead talking to people and taking images and descriptions of what they saw the people doing. Just as many believers who were there, hoping for a miracle, saw and experienced nothing. Perhaps they were not staring at the sun for lengths of time.

And then we only have to look at the children involved in the 'visions', the three children. Two of whom died not long after the whole so called event. The eldest of the two girls, a girl who at her very early communion said that a statue she was praying to smiled at her in the Church and who was described as a child with an amazing gift for storytelling. Gee, because that isn't suspicious at all, is it?



Mass hysteria is an awful thing. The hint of mere suggestion and staring at the sun can result in thousands of people seeing many things. And no, not everyone saw the same thing. Some saw the sun spin in the sky, others saw it rush towards them, others still saw it change colour, and others saw it zig zag across the sky. That is what happens when you stare at the sun.

I should, however correct something I wrote in that previous post. I should have said over 30,000 were present, but not everyone there saw it. Many saw nothing untoward or weird at all.



Mass hysteria.

Human history is, sadly, full of episodes of mass hysteria. Burning women, men and children at the stake because of mass hysteria that they were witches is just one example.
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I don't have enough information on the event to comment further on it.
 
I'm pretty sure it would have been mentioned in every single astronomy journal ever, if it really did move.
 
garbonzo said:
No scientific "scrutiny" is ever applied. It's easy to just say they made it up, that's not evidence against it.
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Bear in mind that science can only ever apply scrutiny to that which is testable and falsifiable. This rules out the vast majority of claims of the supernatural.
Any tests that have been done have either ruled out the supernatural, or merely been inconclusive on the cause of the phenomenon.
No scientific study has ever shown the supernatural to be a sound conclusion.

This is not to say that the supernatural does not exist, but there has been no proof, and no evidence that rationally leads to the conclusion of the cause being supernatural. Most people rationally stop at "the cause is currently unknown" before jumping on the "It's the supernatural!"

As others have said previously, unexplained and supernatural are not synonymous.
 
garbonzo said:
They are, and I've shown this.
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No, you haven't.
My car didn't start this morning the first time I tried. I didn't know why. It was unexplained. Still is. Ooh, must be the supernatural!! :rolleyes:
Still think they're synonymous?
 
Sarkus said:
Bear in mind that science can only ever apply scrutiny to that which is testable and falsifiable. This rules out the vast majority of claims of the supernatural.
Any tests that have been done have either ruled out the supernatural, or merely been inconclusive on the cause of the phenomenon.
No scientific study has ever shown the supernatural to be a sound conclusion.

This is not to say that the supernatural does not exist, but there has been no proof, and no evidence that rationally leads to the conclusion of the cause being supernatural. Most people rationally stop at "the cause is currently unknown" before jumping on the "It's the supernatural!"

As others have said previously, unexplained and supernatural are not synonymous.
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The interesting thing is though , that scientists never seem to explore , investigate , where supernatural phenomena actually are known to occur , personally
 
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