Yep. And it could be that blacks are forced to live in those neighborhoods by redline laws, racism in lending and racism in rental markets.
Prejudice and Bigotry in Law Enforcement
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
If you went to a school that became desegregated and suddenly half the students aren't white and you are, what to do?
The black kids would tend to group together, hispanic kids would too, so the white kids would be a separate group. I bet a school in the US would probably not do anything about the lack of racial integration; most schools would likely have perceived the new situation as another problem to deal with.
So tribality is the rule, at US schools.
I have to say, I attended a mostly white high school, there were a few kids who weren't and it didn't seem to matter much; I didn't see any racist behaviour. So I can only imagine what it would be like.
Nonetheless, I also imagine it would be hard for a white kid to reveal they had black friends, and vice versa. Because of something or other to do with teachers and parents . . .
The black kids would tend to group together, hispanic kids would too, so the white kids would be a separate group. I bet a school in the US would probably not do anything about the lack of racial integration; most schools would likely have perceived the new situation as another problem to deal with.
So tribality is the rule, at US schools.
I have to say, I attended a mostly white high school, there were a few kids who weren't and it didn't seem to matter much; I didn't see any racist behaviour. So I can only imagine what it would be like.
Nonetheless, I also imagine it would be hard for a white kid to reveal they had black friends, and vice versa. Because of something or other to do with teachers and parents . . .
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Yes, that could be the answer or it could be BS for the most part. It's an open question.
Are you arguing that a specific black person living in that kind of community couldn't just move out (as many have done)?
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
catalyst
the actions following the george floyd killing
seem way out of proportion
however
I once worked in a chemical plant
wherein we would blend 2500 lbs. of inert components
and then add in 2 pounds of catalyst
and create a different product with heat and pressure
it took only .08% to significantly alter over 3.123 million times its mass
..................................
perspective matters
the actions following the george floyd killing
seem way out of proportion
however
I once worked in a chemical plant
wherein we would blend 2500 lbs. of inert components
and then add in 2 pounds of catalyst
and create a different product with heat and pressure
it took only .08% to significantly alter over 3.123 million times its mass
..................................
perspective matters
No. I am arguing that, IN GENERAL, black people don't have as much freedom to do that as white people do. I gave you three concrete examples of reasons why that is true.
The post in question: "It’s true that around 13 per cent of Americans are black, according to the latest estimates from the US Census Bureau. And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white."
Those are both valid facts. As you say that is a setup for the many racist conclusions that follow, like "therefore blacks are more criminal" or "therefore police should crack down on blacks." However it is not "straight up racism" as it stands. Plain facts are not racist.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Yes you did even though they are all illegal and have been for years. So, it fits in with my viewpoint. There is some truth to it but it's not really a large reason for the problem.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
You might have some problems and there are some smaller reasons for them but at the end of the day it's probably your decision making that is largely responsible.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Except that you are the only one drawing those conclusions (since it fits your narrative).
Yes. They are all illegal. And yet still we see them. In 2012 Wells Fargo was fined $175 million for racist lending practices. In 2018 another lawsuit started - same company. So yes, it is still happening.
Did you just answer yourself? Not sure how to respond to that.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
You answer it by answering it since I asked you.
Yes, companies do illegal things in the real world. It's not why people are still living in "ghettos".
You quoted yourself and then asked the question. But anyhow . . . .
Yes, some of it is poor decision making. A larger part of it are modern racist policies that continue to create black ghettos. The largest part of it are the historical laws and policies that created them.
It is certainly one of the reasons.
When somebody is moderated, it is common practice for a moderator to leave a note in the relevant thread, to inform the membership that moderator action has occurred, and often to give an explanation of what was done and why. The private notification that you received, informing you of the reasons you received an official warning, is also standard practice when warning points are issued by a moderator.
It was following the moderator note that you decided to post different responses in the public thread and the private conversation, as you know.
I completely understand why you want to keep our correspondence private, given your extremely poor showing in the discussion we are having there. I see, too, that you are continuing to try to run your racist argument in this thread.
I will respond to you privately, as you requested, but if you choose to continue discussing this topic in the public forum I may well join in.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
You know that my responses in private are no different in kind than any point I'm making here.
My response to you in private was longer and I left a much shorter response here. Lets make it easy on you (and cut out your deception) and just post in public.
Are you completely unaware of how revealing such questions are? How visible the assumptions underlying them must be to any American not sharing them?
You can make claims of not being racist until you are blue in the face - one post like that invalidates them all, completely. And you have made dozens of such posts.
Yes, it is - in significant part.
Also, the racist things they do legally have significant impact.
Black neighborhoods in the US are creations of racism, maintained by racial bigotry.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Poor black neighborhoods in the U.S. are creations of racism. How they are maintained is other matter. It is by poor decision making, some white and black racism (blacks who want to say with "my people") and it's somewhat economic.
Almost anyone can move out. Many do. Some don't because of family, fear of change, drugs, etc.
You mean too little too late? That's possible.
A "proportionate" reaction would have involved lynching the perps - surrounding the police station with a crowd of heavily armed vigilantes, dragging the cops involved out, and hanging them from a traffic light. Is that your preference?
- - - - -
To another similar place, maybe.
They are being created continually - that's a large part of how they are maintained.
The rest of the maintenance (the shortchanged schools, the decrepit infrastructure, the abetting of abusive landlords, the denial of credit and undermining of local capital ownership, the abusive enforcement of laws and regulations, the suppression of political organization, the tolerance of "whitecollar" crime that victimizes those neighborhoods, etc etc etc etc) is also soaked in racism and racial bigotry.
Lack of money's the single biggest factor outside of race.
The white people making the large scale defining decisions (the ones that limit the choices of the individual decisionmakers) are always racist, and often racially bigoted. Racism of course, but often racial bigotry as well, has a strong influence on all the decisions involved - especially the "economic" ones.
The most effective means of abuse of black people in America have been the economic ones. They are not a separate category outside the effects of racism.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
How did you avoid all this racism that plagues the white race? Living in South Dakota? That hardly makes you knowledgeable or the wild-eyed radical that you seem to envisage for yourself.
Power to the people, brother!
And somewhat due to racism, which has been demonstrated.
That's like saying almost anyone can be rich, so what's the big deal about affording medical care? Such questions reveal fairly vast misconceptions of reality.
As I have said many times, including explicitly to you specifically, I make no claim of having avoided any such thing.
If you were able to read with comprehension, instead of projecting your bigoted cartoon world onto everybody else, you would have noticed that one of the first half dozen times you encountered it. Instead, you will fail to comprehend it now as before.
Also: If you had ever understood the impression you create by always and immediately abandoning any conflicted topic of discussion for attempts at personal insult via projection, to the point that you now appear incapable of posting without attempting personal insult and unaware of the fact that you are projecting, you would have changed your approach here. It's not a good look out in the big world - but then, the Tribe has its own aesthetic; maybe holding hands with the bandarlog is reward enough.
Bottom line: white racism plagues the members of the self-defined "white race" from the moment they adopt that definition. The "white race" is a constituent concept of racism and usually an expression of racial bigotry - it varies by society, in step with the variations in racial bigotry one finds across different cultures and societies. The "US white" race was developed or invented by slaveowners in the process of establishing racially organized chattel slavery in the US. Among other reasons, they needed it to protect themselves against being enslaved and abused under their own system.
So it was and is particularly important that it be established as a root level concept among the police forces and other dangerous centers of power in American society.