can-not-escape
Registered Member
could someone please tell me very quickly what the point or the message behind the adam and eve story is?
point of the adam and eve story
- Thread starter can-not-escape
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The point is that adam and eve were created to be stupid. So stupid in fact, that they didn't even know they were nude. A snake, who was obviously far smarter than they, told them that if they eat the fruit they would get knowledge of good and evil.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a tree called: the tree of knowledge of good and evil, would provide knowledge of good and evil when you eat the fruit from it.
If that isn't convincing enough just listen to what god has to say:
"Man has now become like one of us [?], knowing good and evil." (He says this after they've eaten the fruit).
So basically in summary..
The serpent ensured that man would get knowledge of good and evil, and thus be able to distinguish the difference between god and satan. If he hadn't have told them to, and they remained without such knowledge - then nobody would worship god because they could not perceive him as good, nor could they perceive satan as evil.
On a historical note..
In the original story, dated some 1,500 years before the biblical version, there are two fruits on one tree, as opposed to the biblical two trees. The fruits were called: the fruit of life and the fruit of enlightenment, and the original adam, (adamu), got tricked into not eating the fruit of life and thus losing out on eternal life.
Gilgamesh also tried something similar after his friend had died. He went to utnapishtim, (the original noah), and got him to explain about the plant that gave eternal life. Eventually Gilgamesh found the plant, which was at the bottom of the sea, and took it to his boat. While taking a swim, a serpent crept aboard and ate the plant - and inherited eternal life for itself.
From Brazil to Bognor Regis, the snake/serpent features as an extremely prominent being in creation/deity depictions.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a tree called: the tree of knowledge of good and evil, would provide knowledge of good and evil when you eat the fruit from it.
If that isn't convincing enough just listen to what god has to say:
"Man has now become like one of us [?], knowing good and evil." (He says this after they've eaten the fruit).
So basically in summary..
The serpent ensured that man would get knowledge of good and evil, and thus be able to distinguish the difference between god and satan. If he hadn't have told them to, and they remained without such knowledge - then nobody would worship god because they could not perceive him as good, nor could they perceive satan as evil.
On a historical note..
In the original story, dated some 1,500 years before the biblical version, there are two fruits on one tree, as opposed to the biblical two trees. The fruits were called: the fruit of life and the fruit of enlightenment, and the original adam, (adamu), got tricked into not eating the fruit of life and thus losing out on eternal life.
Gilgamesh also tried something similar after his friend had died. He went to utnapishtim, (the original noah), and got him to explain about the plant that gave eternal life. Eventually Gilgamesh found the plant, which was at the bottom of the sea, and took it to his boat. While taking a swim, a serpent crept aboard and ate the plant - and inherited eternal life for itself.
From Brazil to Bognor Regis, the snake/serpent features as an extremely prominent being in creation/deity depictions.
Yes it does.
Gen 3:22 And the lord god said, "man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life.."
It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. After eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, man became like the gods- knowing good and evil- which would show he got the knowledge of good and evil from the tree aptly named the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Before he ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he had no knowledge of good and evil- but after eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he gained knowledge of good and evil - as god clearly states to the "other gods"
From our discussions I have learnt you're not the brightest spark, but that really wasn't all that difficult.
Gen 3:22 And the lord god said, "man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life.."
It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. After eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, man became like the gods- knowing good and evil- which would show he got the knowledge of good and evil from the tree aptly named the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Before he ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he had no knowledge of good and evil- but after eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he gained knowledge of good and evil - as god clearly states to the "other gods"
From our discussions I have learnt you're not the brightest spark, but that really wasn't all that difficult.
God told Adam and Eve that they shouldn't eat from the tree of Knowledge, because they would die if they did, though they could eat from any other tree.can-not-escape said:
Now came a snake and tricked Eve into eating from the tree of Knowledge, and said that they wouldn't die from it (which God had said that they would if they did).
The point (from my understanding) isn't that God wanted to deny humans knowledge, but He wanted them to follow His command. If they couldn't follow His command then knowledge of good and evil was needed. If they had followed His command then they would have got eternal life from the tree of Life.
This is also shows the deceitful nature of the snake, which fooled Eve that she wouldn't die (cause the snake knew that she wouldn't die right away, but that death would be introduced by it - by not eating the tree of Life).
Because Adam and Eve after eating from the tree of Knowledge now had knowledge of good and evil, they had to be driven out from the garden of Eden so that they didn't also have eternal life and become gods.
Why God said "so they don't become gods like us" I don't know, but it indicates something it wasn't just a type-fault. God is beyond time, so maybe He saw the consequences of that happening? I get a eerie feeling when I think about this.
This is just a personal idea, but maybe no tree in the garden was different from any other, maybe by eating from the named tree of knowledge they got knowledge of good and evil because they didn't obey God (and thus knew that it was wrong). By the insight of what they had done, they felt shame and as a consequence knew what good and evil was.
Another thing, the snake involved in this scenario doesn't have to be a real snake of flesh and blood, it can also be used as a image of temptation, maybe what the snake said was a thought inside themselves? Though this is also just a personal idea, and there are people believing that it was a image snake and there are people believing that it was a real one. I'm sure that there are things talking for and against both sides - that it lost it's legs for one.
I got another idea now...the snake lost it's legs as a punishment, maybe because "you will loose also what you have". Maybe the snake thought God had been unjust to it, being amongst the lower animals?
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It is also a reversal of earlier myth patterns that explain how the original immortal peoples became the mortals that we are today.
In the original myth, the first death came before the fruit. And are inextricably tied together. There was a murder among these people who had never known death. The murderer knew shame after this deed and attempted to hide his/her actions by burying the head of the victim. From this burial grew the staple food plant of the region. Death and Life from one source.
Also, the serpent was once thought to have been the consort of the goddes figure of early myths. He represented wisdom and knowledge.
The early hebrews sought to make their religion unique amongst the people and simply reversed aspects of the myth to make it their own.
Snakelord's story is interesting. I haven't heard it before. Is it a Hebrew myth or an earlier people? Is it possible that the myth structure was reversed before it was passed on to the hebrews?
In the original myth, the first death came before the fruit. And are inextricably tied together. There was a murder among these people who had never known death. The murderer knew shame after this deed and attempted to hide his/her actions by burying the head of the victim. From this burial grew the staple food plant of the region. Death and Life from one source.
Also, the serpent was once thought to have been the consort of the goddes figure of early myths. He represented wisdom and knowledge.
The early hebrews sought to make their religion unique amongst the people and simply reversed aspects of the myth to make it their own.
Snakelord's story is interesting. I haven't heard it before. Is it a Hebrew myth or an earlier people? Is it possible that the myth structure was reversed before it was passed on to the hebrews?
It is babylonian in origin. Gilgamesh was an early king and partly god, who only knew about death because his friend died. He then became afraid of his own death and traveled to the gods to gain immortal life and to gain knowledge about his heritage and so on.
Never heard of the Saga of Gilgamesh? Perhaps google it up, I am sure you find it somewhere.
Never heard of the Saga of Gilgamesh? Perhaps google it up, I am sure you find it somewhere.
Oops, I should clarify, I meant the Adamu story.
I've never made it all the way through the Gilgamesh Epic, I have heard some excerpts though. How did it go? "Gilgamesh sat by Enkidu's side for three days until a maggot fell from his nose." Something like that. I probably should try to find a decent version of it somewhere.
I've never made it all the way through the Gilgamesh Epic, I have heard some excerpts though. How did it go? "Gilgamesh sat by Enkidu's side for three days until a maggot fell from his nose." Something like that. I probably should try to find a decent version of it somewhere.
I see, try to look it up here http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/ the archieves are quite extensive.
c_david_neely
Registered Member
Greetings and Felicitations,
Actually, I consider the whole Adam and Eve in the garden thing to be a set up from God. Here is my reasoning:
One of the attributes of God is omniscient. According to the dictionary definition omniscient is ; 1 - having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight 2 - possessed of universal or complete knowledge. If God is omniscient then he knew that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit. If he knew that they would eat the fruit and placed them in the position to eat the fruit then he wanted them to eat the fruit. Therefore, God wanted Adam and Eve (and by extension humanity) to possess knowledge of Good and Evil. Now the question becomes one of ??Why??
Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
can-not-escape said:
Actually, I consider the whole Adam and Eve in the garden thing to be a set up from God. Here is my reasoning:
One of the attributes of God is omniscient. According to the dictionary definition omniscient is ; 1 - having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight 2 - possessed of universal or complete knowledge. If God is omniscient then he knew that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit. If he knew that they would eat the fruit and placed them in the position to eat the fruit then he wanted them to eat the fruit. Therefore, God wanted Adam and Eve (and by extension humanity) to possess knowledge of Good and Evil. Now the question becomes one of ??Why??
Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
Becoming a vampire? "Velcome to my lair. I don't drink... vine... One!! One refutation of heresy!! HAHAHAHA!! Two!! Two refutations of heresey!! HAHAHAHA!!"
Basically, your refutation comes down to god is infallible. I'm just about done banging my head against the walls in here for awhile.
I'll probably come back in later at some point. I don't know how Katazia keeps it up. She must have a huge callous on her forehead by now. c_david_neely
Registered Member
Greetings and Felicitations,
Why allow it if you don't want it? If you "allow' something to happen (and you know it will happen) either you want it to or don't care.
Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
Enigma'07 said:
Why allow it if you don't want it? If you "allow' something to happen (and you know it will happen) either you want it to or don't care.
Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
c_david_neely
Registered Member
Greetings and Felicitations,
Why would it qualify as heresy? Maybe there are very good reasons that God wanted it that way. Maybe he didn't really want mindless zombies living in the garden but had a greater destiny in mind that required us having the knowledge. By definition God would only allow things to happen that he wanted to happen.
Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
§outh§tar said:
Why would it qualify as heresy? Maybe there are very good reasons that God wanted it that way. Maybe he didn't really want mindless zombies living in the garden but had a greater destiny in mind that required us having the knowledge. By definition God would only allow things to happen that he wanted to happen.
Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely
Adam and eve is a cool story. It symbolises man going from being a good animal living in harmony with the planet, to taking the "apple" from the "tree of knowledge" and becoming a "sinner", ie escaping natural selection and living lives contradicting and going against nature or "god".
Ofcourse, this fantastic myth was misunderstood by following generations who built upon their misinterpretations to create the bible.
The original myth itself was fine, people took it litterally and misunderstood the meaning, thats where the problems started.
Ofcourse, this fantastic myth was misunderstood by following generations who built upon their misinterpretations to create the bible.
The original myth itself was fine, people took it litterally and misunderstood the meaning, thats where the problems started.