Planet Venus (evolution in spite of NASA)

bradguth

Banned
Banned
Unfortunately, there has been and still are, many having deeply invested their belief's and emotions in the notion that NASA or even SETI are the least bit focused upon true space research and exploration. Nothing could be further from the truth, and that "truth" is truly becoming illusive at best.

SETI and mostly NASA, these are massive money consuming machines, insuring job security at somewhat considerable benefits (what the pay lacks, those benefits and entitlements make up for, as sort of like milking a cow, the more tits you can hold onto the more milk you get).

As world class bureaucracies go, each accomplishment is measured by a work force having a minimum factor of 10, further supported by a logistics and outfitting factor of 100. Thereby; doing a job that might take a privet sector team of 10, NASA's version would be requiring 100. Accomplishing any task that requires further logistics and outfitting; such as a privately funded project represented by one million dollars, here again, NASA's format would have taken at least 100 millions worth. So, multiply the crew factor by 10 and the outfitting/support by 100, obviously the true task at hand is no longer the research itself but, the massive infrastructure and forced/mandated overhead, that which demands far more skill and management and thereby highly paid individuals with sufficient power as to overseeing this mess.

The reasons why it takes so many additional folks, along with that 100 times outfitting investment, has a great deal to do with cloaking for NSA/DoD agendas. Just that "nondisclosure" enforcement aspect alone represents 25% of your crew and infrastructure, then actually cloaking on behalf of NSA/DoD can pull as much as 50% of that budget. Toss in the usual governmental personnel management levels, benefits and entitlements programs and the never ending hustle for those higher "G" ratings and that's easily squandering 20% of your resources, plus the fact that at any one time, at least 15% of your crew is on some form of administrative leave, vacations, sick leave and/or undergoing paid training as related to their next job advancement.

Basically, it's taking at least 10 (often 20) to do the job of one and then you simply can't share facilities nor support services (primarily due to all that "nondisclosure crap", which is only there because of the cloaking on behalf of NSA/DoD agendas). Then it takes 100 times the outfitting and annual support investments (multiple massive buildings, multiple sites, loads of highly paid front end and PR staffing and always security infrastructure plus their facilities and outfitting, along with fleets of motor pools, plus privet and/or chartered aircraft with all their crews and infrastructure that make all that happen and, we haven't even gotten to the actual individuals that are supposedly doing the intended job, so I'm not certain that a 10:1 ratio will actually cut it, it might be a whole lot more like 20:1).

As you can see, if anyone such as myself were to come along with a done deal towards communications efforts, that which needs no further engineering nor new resources; where is the NASA/NSA/DoD beef in that?

How can government go about hiring tens of thousands and then outfit them with gobs of infrastructure and technology plus logistics and facilities (mostly useful to NSA/DoD agendas), thereby most easily extracting whatever for their cloak and dagger partners (NSA/DoD), when my proposals need non of the above. What good is it when my research discovery of significant structures existing on Venus is a done deal and, we simply need to make our first contact and start asking questions. Why even go there if we can so easily establish two-way binary packet laser communications, as duplexing away at audio and video exchanges.

Actually being on Venus, this is almost as humanly stupid and hopefully pointless as our going after those lethal Mars microbes.

It's not that we can't go to planets like Mars or Venus; where Mars will be in the investment range of at least one trillion dollars (plus 2 decades having no chances whatsoever of privet enterprise nor paying passengers), as opposed to 100 billion for the Venus expedition (we can manage L2 right now, plus offering all sorts of enterprise and paying passenger potential). As we already know that someone (a whole lot smarter then you or I) exist on Venus and, that we have been at fault (12 years worth) for not acting upon it. The very most of any new future requirement might be, is that of a Venus L2 platform (robotic and/or manned), from which our mutual signals can be relayed (boosted) and, we can certainly accomplish that one with what we already know.

For God's sake, CNN could manage this initial phase. So who the hell needs NASA or ESA for that matter?

What is NASA fearing?
The real threat (job security), not the uncovering of what's on Venus nor even the Apollo ruse of our century (most involved in that one are either dead or nearly retired with full benefits and entitlements in tact).

Perhaps if not ESA, then Germany, China/Cuba and naturally Russia should be those best aligned as to taking advantage of what NASA simply can't function under. For one thing, as Venus comes into our local laser range, we'll each have four months of communications opportunities, requiring no costly launches, no new satellites nor any spacecrafts, not likely even any new ground facilities and damn few staff. Once auto-tracking laser cannons are placed on-line, that's pretty much it, everyone goes home to watch live Venus broadcasting (within a few minutes delay and, not otherwise the multi thousand + years worth of anything SETI has yet to even produce).

I have two sites chuck full of research and ideas, no ulterior motives, no cloak and dagger associations with the likes of NSA/DoD and no "nondisclosure" getting in the way. Since I have those "extraordinary" proof images as opposed to my opposition having squat, if you need further clarifications, ideas or just want to talk about the possibilities, that's exactly what should be done.

If you feel the need as to purely criticize because my statements are making you fell like a total fool, or that my syntax is not up to your higher standards, perhaps you are even feeling like a pathetic jerk for believing in NASA, that's OK too because, I've been snookered by those having "the right stuff" for more the 35 years worth of lies and outright deception and, I now believe 10's of thousands of lives have been needlessly lost due to that all American way of life (that's not even including those 9/11 folks, as what the hell did they do as to deserve dying for?).

Unlike NASA, I do make my fair share of mistakes and, I keep trying to discover them beforehand, but I'm simply not as perfect as my opponents and apparently nowhere as NASA religious neither. There is nothing worse than a bad cult want-to-be member, especially one that's making all the others look like criminals, the ones you and I think of as being behind those bars or worse.

These following are just a few of the resources at hand, which I'll keep adding to and further editing, so please do check back. The first clues that all of what I have to offer is of sufficient "truth", this will come from the words of my opponents and perhaps even from NASA, as their objections have not been scientifically founded and, that I can prove.

http://guthvenus.tripod.com
http://geocities.com/bradguth
http://geocities.com/bradguth/hello.htm
http://geocities.com/bradguth/no-lie.htm
http://geocities.com/bradguth/positive.htm
 
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Brad Guth

It's looking as though we have developed an airship gap, as likely that of an airship of rigid alloy shell and offering a suitable depressurized cabin, which is going to become something needed upon our arrival at "GUTH Venus". At this point, it's apparent that our astronauts will not likely have a personal airship of their own and, that means they'll have to rent one. You know how outrageous those Venus airship rental agencies can be, especially if you don't have reservations, you're sort of at the mercy of those having such technology and you pretty much get to take whatever they have to offer. If we're lucky, we'll end up with the really old beater that no one wants (because it keeps loosing it's hydrogen) and, I'm not all that sure our duct tape is going to cut it.

This is quite good. I'm happy you've gone to the extent of creating your websites for our enjoyment. I haven't laughed so hard since the time I saw an old sci-fi flick in which a group of so-called scientists take a journey to Venus and discover all sorts of hilarious monsters.

You've got a promising career in sci-fi comedy. You almost appear to believe what you're saying. Keep it up. ;)
 
I am not so sure this belongs to this forum but will wait and see where it heads.
 
Well Brad has a point about NASA and bureaucracies. The scale factor is not out of line either. Only people in private sector can say that. But there is no alternative. We all know that publicly funded research projects are always bloated. I would like to see them bloated than cut corners and have a challenger type accident.

As far as Venus flytrap - I will comment later. :D
 
NASA is still in the running, just bloated down by NSA/DoD agendas

Unfortunately, this discovery is somewhat large, so much so, that without taking a great deal of review and open minded consideration, this is simply not going to happen. If your groups are strictly pro-NASA or how about pro-ESA, then you need to consider what I have to offer because, a discovery of this nature and degree is about as pro-NASA and pro-ESA as you can get, unless you care to involve the likes of NSA/DoD considerations, as then you've got nothing whatsoever worthy as far as humanity is concerned.

I happen to fully agree with Ron Bobarsky and others like him, that perhaps SETI is where the action should be (I'm just not so enthusiastic about looking quite so far away), as it's so much faster and at least a million to upwards of a billion times cheaper as to placing countless and even really long distance calls at that, then of our sending off the smallest of probes out for years worth of travels.

My recent quest is somewhat as follows; (your ideas are likely far better)

What will it take to refocus pro-NASA types and to cool off SETI's heels, then reignite all of them into using laser cannons, pointed at Venus and keeping that heat on for at least 4 months worth?

For this phase; who needs NASA/ESA, CNN could finance and totally accomplish this "first contact", or how about just paying for my medication.

http://geocities.com/bradguth/hello.htm
http://geocities.com/bradguth/no-lie.htm
http://geocities.com/bradguth/positive.htm
URL backup: http://guthvenus.tripod.com

I do realize that dealing in a few light-minutes is not nearly as exciting as sending off nuclear rocket powered probes towards thousands to millions of light-years distant targets (obviously never reaching those targets, at least not within our next few hundred generations) but, what the hay. What possibly is there to lose, by introducing a little or a lot of CW (Mores code phrases) or binary packet laser shots at Venus?

Venus might even shoot right back, then we obviously don't have to bother going there because, we can simply ask thousands of questions and share our best planetary smut (they can stay warm if not somewhat toasty and we can remain cool and thoroughly stupid).

I'm certainly not saying we still don't need those nuclear rocket engines capable of pushing us past the 1% light-speed. I just so happen to think this "GUTH Venus" thing (even if based upon the laser communications aspects alone) could soon pave and even pay the way for them in spades, as 25 million miles (40e6km) is about as close as we'll typically get and, that's only every 18 months, as otherwise, we're looking at hundreds of millions of miles, which is exactly where something that's capable of delivering 6.7 million miles per hour might come in real handy, rather then our having to wait around for that 18 month cycle.

Replenishing a Venus L2 platform will not be all that acceptable if those supplies and crew changes have to remain on that 18 month cycle. So, faster space travel is still a strong requirement but, we do seem to need a little focus, as NASA/NSA/DoD appear as to have been running amuck lately and, for good example, those considerations towards Mars are still not looking all that great. Anything much further away is yet to be proven as the least bit rational, with the exception of our tracking and researching upon those large inbound (Earth killer) objects such as that 12th planet or dead star.

Looking at developing our moon is something that should have been accomplished long ago. For all the right scientific logic and benefits, our moon is a damn better space platform then anything else on the books.

Focusing upon Venus, as something easily obtainable within 1000 days travel and otherwise just a few light-minutes worth of laser packets, is simply far more realistic, obviously humanly obtainable as all get out and, perhaps just a little belated at that.

If for some blind reason you still can't visualize one damn thing, don't feel bad because, for the past 18 months NASA has not been the least bit capable either. Actually, for the past 12 years and counting, NASA's braille image interpreters have not managed to see one worthy artificial target on any planet (including Mars). So, why should you or I expect them to see those multiple and fairly massive Venus reservoirs (having a combined capacity of 50+e6m3 and as so obviously interconnected at that) nor of that suspension bridge issue crossing or spanning that conservatively 1+km grand canyon consideration. If they can not manage to see those massive and highly geometrical and obviously structurally placed and/or created items, then I'll bet they can't even locate that toilet paper within their own executive lavatory, let alone anything else I've pointed out.

I'm sorry folks; I'm not the anti-Christ and not even a good anti-wizard. So, I guess, if you're looking for those truly bad guys, you'll have to go looking elsewhere. Try looking under that "C" rock or how about looking under any one of those 1/6th gravity scaled lunar lander prototypes and, let us see where those pro-NASA brain waves take you. By the way folks, when you take photos in space, especially with such quality cameras, film and superb optics and, when the foreground is merely 10% reflective and the sky is so totally clear/black, that radiation proof and thermal tolerant film should record such vibrant stars (unless fogged out by radiation, but there was no such radiation, not even a trace, not even from the Apollo-16 mission), sufficiently so that a one hour photomat can process those dark areas as to sufficiently show such stars.
 
First off I would welcome you to sciforums, bradguth. Something I neglected to do in my first post. I am at present torn between which forum I will send this thread to as you seemed to have mixed a bit of several things into this thread.

There have been a total of 20 space probes to visit Venus. The most recent of them was the Magellan mission in which the space probe orbited and made radar map images of the surface.

Venus’s atmospheric pressure is 90 atmospheres, about the same pressure as at a depth of one kilometer in our ocean. The main component of gas in Venus’ atmosphere is carbon dioxide. There are also several layers of sulfuric acid in the atmosphere. The temperature is thought to be caused by greenhouse effect and runs around 400 degrees. (hot enough to melt lead) This makes it hotter than Mercury on the surface of the planet. If that isn’t enough the winds run at around 350 kph. Add to it that Venus has almost no free water and you come up with a hellish place for life to survive.
(This info courtesy of JPL)

What makes you think that life is there, much less that it has established a foot hold and built any kind of structures on the surface?

I have no argument with bureaucracy breeds overheads, redundancy, and exists to further itself. I would put forth this in its favor. Without government help there would be no space program due to the huge expense. No company is going to put that kind of money into something that they do not see as paying off in the immediate future. Can private enterprise do it cheaper? Certainly it can. It will not do so unless there is a payment substantial enough to cover the outlay and bring in a profit. In profit lays the catch. No one will do it for free. There is at present no industry to attract private enterprise. It is a great void, far more daunting than when pioneers when out into the wilderness that was the United States to make their own way. The pioneers did not have to take air and water with them nor did they have to bring everything they would need to sustain them on their trip. Not the same for anyone venturing into space. So what would you have private enterprise do to pay for this great venture? Where the income would be reasonably expected to come from and in the near term? You can not depend on there being an endless line of multibillionaires ready to catch the next shuttle up.
 
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This post is beyond my intelligence level. Brad, can you give us the cliffnote version without mentioning NASA, 12th Planet and NSA/DoD ?

Are you saying that there are Venusians living underground cities and have the advanced technology? I think I missed something somewhere while scanning the prodigious amount of stuff at your website.
 
Brad

I'm having quite a chuckle with your latest offings. I do however, get the distinct feeling you might be serious.

Please tell me you don't really believe there are civilizations on Venus and that you haven't solicited agencies with this tripe.

You are, of course, just yanking our chains... right ?
 
Guthy boy

As
<a href="http://uplink.space.com/2/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=srch&s=874094803&findw=&f=&sis=&dt=&author_name=bradguth&sort_order=2&action=simplesearch&search.x=45&search.y=4&search=submit"> uplink.space.com
</a> brushed you off and no one took a blind bit of notice to you on <a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=brad+guth&btnG=Google+Search&meta=">usenet </a>. In fact they labelled you a crank as well. I see you are now trying to get interest here as well.

Though you have seriously improved the grammar of your presentation <a href="http://www.crank.net/space.html">crank.net still lists you as illucid</a>. Look for "This is a NASA "Mole Free Zone" ".

Brad is a seriously alternative thinker. He believes there is evidence of artificial structures on the surface of Venus. Any one who disagrees is a NASA disinfo mole.
 
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Thank you thed. With that info we can pretty much decide where this thread belongs...
 
Q
Brad is indeed very serious.


Yikes !

It's amazing, just when you think the next kook could not get any kookier than the one before. ;)
 
Originally posted by wet1
Thank you thed. With that info we can pretty much decide where this thread belongs...

As it is moved to this Forum, I sincerely want to know how you came to the "knowledge" there are tunnels and Beings living on Venus Brad.

I think you heard that theory from former life on Mars. 'Cause that's where the tunnel theory comes from.

I'm sorry to say so, I do not believe it is true that there might be any life form on Venus.

Have you been visited by these Beings..?

As a side note I have to say I didn't go through all the websites you provided. I've a pretty good view on these things myself and in this particular case of Venus I want solid proof.

EDIT: Did you find this theories all by yourself? It's amazing!
 
Now that we are in Pseudoscience, I feel much better to speculate as much as I want to.....:D

The only way Venus can harbor intelligent life in the past is if our Sun was colder 500 million years to 1.5 billion years in the past. If that is the case, then, may be a detail look is warranted.

Even if, that could be true, everything may have turned to dust, we may find artificially made metals such as Titanium and glass items.

May be the Mars movie should be renamed as the Venus movies and we are really the Venusians left the planet long time ago.

The otherday, I was watching the discovery channel, where they were talking about how Sun will get warmer before going Nova and it will cook us to the level of Venus. May be Brad got that idea from the show.
 
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