Honestly, I dont know. I dont major in political science. But at least were taking a step. Even though some people might not think its the right one, IT IS a step, and I didnt see anyone else steppin up to take that step. Were going to be criticized no matter what we do. Its always happened and its always going to happen. You just thank your lucky stars you live down under and dont have to worry about the things we do.
philosphy of terrorism
- Thread starter imimim
- Start date
Honestly, I dont know. I dont major in political science. But at least were taking a step. Even though some people might not think its the right one, IT IS a step, and I didnt see anyone else steppin up to take that step. Were going to be criticized no matter what we do. Its always happened and its always going to happen. You just thank your lucky stars you live down under and dont have to worry about the things we do.
You are WRONG about that. There was a step, maybe it was Israil or maybe it was Iraq or maybe it was something else but there WAS a step that made the people who flew those planes HATE you that much that they were willing to DIE for it. Now i didn't mean to imply you should do nothing but the choices you have made will have escalated the situation MORE than if you had sat back and did nothing.
Let me put it another way. Have you ever had a fight with your Boyfriend (husband, lover i dont really care what). Now was it easier to solve the problem while you were Angry or after you had some time to calm down and think your argument out logicly. This is the same the US has been hurt and its people are angry and so they have reacted LIKE someone hurt and angry but this situation really needed a cool head and i fear for the world because of the way it was handled
I hope that makes my opinion clearer
Let me put it another way. Have you ever had a fight with your Boyfriend (husband, lover i dont really care what). Now was it easier to solve the problem while you were Angry or after you had some time to calm down and think your argument out logicly. This is the same the US has been hurt and its people are angry and so they have reacted LIKE someone hurt and angry but this situation really needed a cool head and i fear for the world because of the way it was handled
I hope that makes my opinion clearer
I
Io Aurelia
Guest
First of all, Strgrl, I want to make it clear that I'm not attacking you personally, so please don't take it that way.
Then how can you be so sure that this war is the right thing? How can you be so sure that it will stop terrorism?
If you don't know how this war is supposed to help the world situation, how can you be so adamant in supporting it?
I know that before I support anything that claims to solve a problem, I want to know how exactly it will do so.
Just say I said "OK, I know a way to stop world poverty, but it means we have to go to war with Pakistan."
Would you support me? Not if you have half a brain you wouldn't. You'd want to know how it's supposed to solve poverty before you commited your support.
You don't have to be a major in political science. God knows I'm not. I just like to be aware of the things which are going on in the world.
Yes, it's a step, but it's not the only step the US could have taken. The particular step that your country chose means more lives will be lost (Afghan and American), money being syphoned away to support full scale war, more hatred towards the U.S (which means more people in the middle east will feel resentment, thus increasing the chances of terrorist attacks happening again), and now we have to prospect of nuclear war on our hands. And no, the u.s wouldn't be criticized so much if it had taken other steps, other steps which actually examine the causes of terrorism and work out how to solve them, rather than more violence, bloodshed, hate, and gung ho "Bring on the bombs, boys! we gonna get revenge on y'all".
Well actually, we do have to worry. Your president has basically said "you're either with us, or against us". So if we didn't support this war, presumably we'd be on the side of the terrorists. And we do have to worry, because now you're not only at war with afghanistan, you've also named a whole lot of other countries as potential candidates for attack, thereby draging them into it too. Everyday it's looking more and more like the beginning of world war III.
No nation exists in a vaccum, what goes on in one country effects the whole world.
Io
Then how can you be so sure that this war is the right thing? How can you be so sure that it will stop terrorism?
If you don't know how this war is supposed to help the world situation, how can you be so adamant in supporting it?
I know that before I support anything that claims to solve a problem, I want to know how exactly it will do so.
Just say I said "OK, I know a way to stop world poverty, but it means we have to go to war with Pakistan."
Would you support me? Not if you have half a brain you wouldn't. You'd want to know how it's supposed to solve poverty before you commited your support.
You don't have to be a major in political science. God knows I'm not. I just like to be aware of the things which are going on in the world.
Yes, it's a step, but it's not the only step the US could have taken. The particular step that your country chose means more lives will be lost (Afghan and American), money being syphoned away to support full scale war, more hatred towards the U.S (which means more people in the middle east will feel resentment, thus increasing the chances of terrorist attacks happening again), and now we have to prospect of nuclear war on our hands. And no, the u.s wouldn't be criticized so much if it had taken other steps, other steps which actually examine the causes of terrorism and work out how to solve them, rather than more violence, bloodshed, hate, and gung ho "Bring on the bombs, boys! we gonna get revenge on y'all".
Well actually, we do have to worry. Your president has basically said "you're either with us, or against us". So if we didn't support this war, presumably we'd be on the side of the terrorists. And we do have to worry, because now you're not only at war with afghanistan, you've also named a whole lot of other countries as potential candidates for attack, thereby draging them into it too. Everyday it's looking more and more like the beginning of world war III.
No nation exists in a vaccum, what goes on in one country effects the whole world.
Io
I could be wrong about this but i think Bush named Indonesia as someone they want to deal with or something and if indonesia gose to war they ARE a big threat to us. I think there Army is as large as our WHOLE POPULATION (Io if im wrong correct me). We are stuck in this for better or for worse and even if we wern't Radiatio poison DOSN'T discriminate. We will just get it later than the US and their Targets. I mean at least the people you are aiming for will die quickly. I don't want to live years with canser because the US presidant was STUPID enough to get into a Nuclear war
I
Io Aurelia
Guest
There are more people on this forum who support this war then those who don't, so it is not unfair to pool together. Believe me, it is very hard to debate with pro-war Americans. And it was not only me that said that anyway.
You're making a mistake with that statement. You're assuming that if someone doesn't support this war, they're pro-terrorist. I'm am anti-terrorist (if you read my posts you would know that), but neither do I support this war- that does not make me pro terrorist.
The reason why I keep saying that is because everytime I say anything which suggests that the US has not always done the best thing, I get told that I'm "bashing America".
Io
I
Io Aurelia
Guest
Indonesia is a big threat to us. They're really close, and our dealings with them haven't been friendly of late (not sure about their army, but will look into it).
Australia is particularly vulnerable because of our position. We're cut off from alot of the western world, if asian countries decided to attack us, it would be easy as hell because of the proximity.
Also, remember that the Jihad is not only on America. They named us too, because we are an ally of yours.
Io
I didnt say it was the right thing, but we either have war? What were some of the possibilities you guys came up with??? Apply for extradiction of Osama - was one. Oh! And take a look at our foreign policies - that was another. Well to me war looks like the best route, since all the other solutions you guys came up with - suck! Not putting anyone down or anything, but you guys are so quick to bash the war but I have not heard 1 alternative solution that sound resonable.
And Asguard
Yes, I think a fight should be talked over. Did we not ask the Taliban to hand over Osama. Yes we did, and they didnt comply, they basically declared war on us as well. Like I said earlier, there were attacks on us in the past and we didnt JUMP at war then, if we sat and did nothing after the 911 attacks, it would of ONLY invited more attacks and nothing else. Every attack on us ONLY got bigger and bigger when we sat back and did nothing. Could you imagine how big the next attack would be?
Im not for war, but since I have not heard any better options, Im going to stick to my guns and keep arguing my point.
Groove on
I
Io Aurelia
Guest
How do you know war is the best option if you don't even know how it's supposed to solve the problem?
Io
The WAR isn't wining you any security (i mean have you found him yet and he isn't the only one) but it IS making you a LOT of enermys. If Labor had of been in power i don't even think WE would have surported you.
As to the Talaban decalaring war on you if there was a Murderer in Australia (or the UK) and for some reason the courts denied your request for us to exstadite him would Australia be decalaring war on you. NO of corse we wouldn't we would be exersising our RIGHTS as a sovern nation. THE US DOSE NOT OWN THE WORLD. Every country has the right to control there people and anyone else who is inside there borders. The talaban denied you one man, SO there are thousandes of people just like him killing him will solve NOTHING except to satisfy the need for REVENGE in the US. Revenge solves nothing. I am now going to go looking for every scrap i can find on the IRA and the prodestant equiverlant (which i cant remeber the name of) if you are going to exsist purly for revenge you should get a few tips from them they are the experts at it.
As to the Talaban decalaring war on you if there was a Murderer in Australia (or the UK) and for some reason the courts denied your request for us to exstadite him would Australia be decalaring war on you. NO of corse we wouldn't we would be exersising our RIGHTS as a sovern nation. THE US DOSE NOT OWN THE WORLD. Every country has the right to control there people and anyone else who is inside there borders. The talaban denied you one man, SO there are thousandes of people just like him killing him will solve NOTHING except to satisfy the need for REVENGE in the US. Revenge solves nothing. I am now going to go looking for every scrap i can find on the IRA and the prodestant equiverlant (which i cant remeber the name of) if you are going to exsist purly for revenge you should get a few tips from them they are the experts at it.
Asguard and Io
Look, I DONT KNOW that the war is the best. But you cant negotiate with terrorist extremists. And if you cant negotiate with them, what do you propose we do?? We cant sit and talk about it like you guys suggest, we cant forget about the things they have done to us. This isnt about "revenge" like you guys say, this is about eradicating terrorists extremists from the face of this earth to prevent more terrorist attacks. You both keep using examples and non-logical approaches to this situation. Io, HOW DO YOU KNOW that your way would work. Asguard, HOW DO YOU KNOW that your plan will work. You dont! And neither do we, but we sure are hoping its the best one for our safety and for the rest of the worlds safety.
And if Australia was ever attacked as severly as NYC was, who do you think you would be calling for help
Groove on
Look, I DONT KNOW that the war is the best. But you cant negotiate with terrorist extremists. And if you cant negotiate with them, what do you propose we do?? We cant sit and talk about it like you guys suggest, we cant forget about the things they have done to us. This isnt about "revenge" like you guys say, this is about eradicating terrorists extremists from the face of this earth to prevent more terrorist attacks. You both keep using examples and non-logical approaches to this situation. Io, HOW DO YOU KNOW that your way would work. Asguard, HOW DO YOU KNOW that your plan will work. You dont! And neither do we, but we sure are hoping its the best one for our safety and for the rest of the worlds safety.
And if Australia was ever attacked as severly as NYC was, who do you think you would be calling for help
Groove on
ImaHamster2
Registered Senior Member
Io Aurelia posted:
“You're assuming that if someone doesn't support this war, they're pro-terrorist. I'm am anti-terrorist (if you read my posts you would know that), but neither do I support this war- that does not make me pro terrorist.”
Doubt Io Aurelia knows this hamster sufficiently well to predict what this hamster knows or assumes. Reference to “anti-terrorist” was a pointed refusal to accept the label of pro-war. This hamster feels the posters on this thread are both anti-war and anti-terrorist.
“The reason why I keep saying that is because everytime I say anything which suggests that the US has not always done the best thing, I get told that I'm "bashing America".”
Unfortunately exaggeration may be interpreted as an error of fact and that tends to undermine a post.
“You're assuming that if someone doesn't support this war, they're pro-terrorist. I'm am anti-terrorist (if you read my posts you would know that), but neither do I support this war- that does not make me pro terrorist.”
Doubt Io Aurelia knows this hamster sufficiently well to predict what this hamster knows or assumes. Reference to “anti-terrorist” was a pointed refusal to accept the label of pro-war. This hamster feels the posters on this thread are both anti-war and anti-terrorist.
“The reason why I keep saying that is because everytime I say anything which suggests that the US has not always done the best thing, I get told that I'm "bashing America".”
Unfortunately exaggeration may be interpreted as an error of fact and that tends to undermine a post.
First off we did call you for help (when we went into East Temor) and we were told your Millatry couldn't aford to be streached any thiner. So THANKS AMERICA we arn't important enough for you except when YOU want something. But thats beside the point (because now we are heros from that and we all love our Army).
My point is that every time a civillan dies you make another group of people hate you. If I acedently killed you Mother or son or something you would be screaming for my blood (i know you would because you surport the DP). You would HATE me forever but you don't seem to realise that everytime you acedently bomb an inocents car or home you are making them HATE YOU. Now you might be right that the people who are terrorest already are a lost course and that there is nothing you can do to change their minds (although personaly i would debate that) but what about the terrousts you are CREATING out of your war. If you come bursting in to my house and kill my sister then say "ops wrong house" im not going to just say "oh thats fine don't worrie about her the house you want is next door". I AM going to start to hate you so I could very well become the next terrest and you couldn't claim i am just a fanatic because my actions would be a DIRECT resault of your own.
This is what you don't seem to realise. You cant put yourself in THEIR place and look at it from their point of view and without it all you will see are sub-human fanatics who need to be killed and you will be surprised when for every one you DO kill 10 more apear
My point is that every time a civillan dies you make another group of people hate you. If I acedently killed you Mother or son or something you would be screaming for my blood (i know you would because you surport the DP). You would HATE me forever but you don't seem to realise that everytime you acedently bomb an inocents car or home you are making them HATE YOU. Now you might be right that the people who are terrorest already are a lost course and that there is nothing you can do to change their minds (although personaly i would debate that) but what about the terrousts you are CREATING out of your war. If you come bursting in to my house and kill my sister then say "ops wrong house" im not going to just say "oh thats fine don't worrie about her the house you want is next door". I AM going to start to hate you so I could very well become the next terrest and you couldn't claim i am just a fanatic because my actions would be a DIRECT resault of your own.
This is what you don't seem to realise. You cant put yourself in THEIR place and look at it from their point of view and without it all you will see are sub-human fanatics who need to be killed and you will be surprised when for every one you DO kill 10 more apear
Actually i wasn't ranting but sticking it up your nose because they all love us and no-one seems to like you (sorry we all get childish from time to time)
And we asked your former Presidant, Bill Clinton and he said that the US would help anyway they could but then your pentagon didn't like that. they said they couldn't aford another miltary engagement so you only sent "logistic surport"
But surpising as it may seem to you people ours didn't hold a grudge against you for that. In fact the very next time you ask for OUR help we come running
Oh as to your statement that any country will do whatever it takes to protect its people OUR people didn't need protecting and INFACT were put in GREATER danger by our surport of you.
And we asked your former Presidant, Bill Clinton and he said that the US would help anyway they could but then your pentagon didn't like that. they said they couldn't aford another miltary engagement so you only sent "logistic surport"
But surpising as it may seem to you people ours didn't hold a grudge against you for that. In fact the very next time you ask for OUR help we come running
Oh as to your statement that any country will do whatever it takes to protect its people OUR people didn't need protecting and INFACT were put in GREATER danger by our surport of you.
You are a child aren't you?
Sticking what up my nose? you see? Make sense, coversasions turn out better that way. As for no one liking us, well sorry to let you in on our big secret, but we don't care if no one like us. This isn't a popularity contest.
Had no nuts
Sorry kid, but what makes you think your safe. Do you really think these terrorists care about you, whether you fight them or not. Your just a target to them. Do you think they cared if foreiners(thats non-americans) were killed in the WTC. Wake up.
Actually im NOT a kid. I am a leagal adult by Australian Law.
And im sick of you implying that (that is the second thread you have done it in)
I am also wise enought to realise that you are right the US dosn't give a SHIT what other nations think of it, Be those Nations Australia, England, or Iraq. SO i ask again why should we side with EITHER side and i anwser because little Johny has no spine. Your war is one SOALY about REVENGE and NOT about stoping terrorism because if you were actually seriouse about stoping it you would realies that WAR ISN'T THE BEST OPTION. to stop it you should put the money from your $1,000,000 missiles into law enforcement. I mean i was reading something on your ABC website (yes i read other Nations media so i can actually get a boarder opinion than the little CNN opioins like US people) that was saying that flying was STILL no safer, i mean they forgot to plug-in the metal detector (stupid people). The only other way to stop people HATING you and trying to blow you up is to find out WHY THE HELL THEY FEEL LIKE THAT. Your statement about how much the US cares about world opinion (friend AND foe) just shows that it will keep happing again and again.
NOW I THINK ITS YOU WHO NEEDS TO GROW UP AND LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT NATIONS APART FROM THE US BEFORE EVERYONE JOINS THE OTHER SIDE
(i hate doing that so please don't atack me personaly again and we can all play nice)
And im sick of you implying that (that is the second thread you have done it in)
I am also wise enought to realise that you are right the US dosn't give a SHIT what other nations think of it, Be those Nations Australia, England, or Iraq. SO i ask again why should we side with EITHER side and i anwser because little Johny has no spine. Your war is one SOALY about REVENGE and NOT about stoping terrorism because if you were actually seriouse about stoping it you would realies that WAR ISN'T THE BEST OPTION. to stop it you should put the money from your $1,000,000 missiles into law enforcement. I mean i was reading something on your ABC website (yes i read other Nations media so i can actually get a boarder opinion than the little CNN opioins like US people) that was saying that flying was STILL no safer, i mean they forgot to plug-in the metal detector (stupid people). The only other way to stop people HATING you and trying to blow you up is to find out WHY THE HELL THEY FEEL LIKE THAT. Your statement about how much the US cares about world opinion (friend AND foe) just shows that it will keep happing again and again.
NOW I THINK ITS YOU WHO NEEDS TO GROW UP AND LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT NATIONS APART FROM THE US BEFORE EVERYONE JOINS THE OTHER SIDE
(i hate doing that so please don't atack me personaly again and we can all play nice)
Tell me why the hell they shouldn't.
AMERICANS DON"T CARE IF YOU HATE US.
You are a soldier Bullets tell me if WW3 happens tomorow and it just happens that its the WORLD against the US how long exactly will you last because with an atude like that you will get NO surpport from anyone (infact i would vote for the other side at least russia were honest in saying they wanted to own the world)