philosphy of terrorism
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I
Io Aurelia
Guest
Strgrl, you misunderstand.
I will repeat what I wrote under the link:
Now, I'm not posting this link as a way of saying, "Hey America, see how evil your country is, you deserved those attacks", but rather as an example as to why you are resented around the world.
Of course there are terrible things in every nations history. In this thread we were specifically discussing Americas foreign policy, so I was specifically talking about America.
I'm wondering if you actually see my point in what I posted.
Io
I will repeat what I wrote under the link:
Now, I'm not posting this link as a way of saying, "Hey America, see how evil your country is, you deserved those attacks", but rather as an example as to why you are resented around the world.
Of course there are terrible things in every nations history. In this thread we were specifically discussing Americas foreign policy, so I was specifically talking about America.
I'm wondering if you actually see my point in what I posted.
Io
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No, in this thread we are talking about the philosophy of terrorism, hence the reason Im wondering why everyone is raggin on America.
WE are not terrorist, regardless of what everyone may think. And everyone keeps pointing out the bad things we have done in the past, basically saying we deserved what we got. And my point is, every nation makes mistakes, so why are we sooooo bad in everyones eyes???? I live in America, I actually enjoy living in America and would not want to live anywhere else, I think this is a great country. I am very patriotic, and I support every action my country makes, good or bad. And I think everyone should feel that way. If you dont like where you live, then leave. Its the people that live hear that keep saying how horrible it is, that make us look even worse. I know its not a perfect place, but apparently its the best or everyone and their mama wouldnt be trying to get in here.
Groove on
I
Io Aurelia
Guest
No, in this thread we are talking about the philosophy of terrorism, hence the reason Im wondering why everyone is raggin on America.
I'm certain that whoever posted this thread had the recent U.S terrorist events on their mind. As the thread continued, the discussions all related to America. No ones bagging the U.S from what I can see, just pointing out details of your foreign policy.
Yes, but I'm certain WE are not terrorist, regardless of what everyone may think.
Yes, well it's within your rights to believe that.
And everyone keeps pointing out the bad things we have done in the past, basically saying we deserved what we got.
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I specifically said that I did not think that America deserved what it got.
And my point is, every nation makes mistakes, so why are we sooooo bad in everyones eyes????
Yep, it's true that every country has crimes in their foreign history. The website I linked to gives you some idea of why there is hostility towards your nation.
I live in America, I actually enjoy living in America and would not want to live anywhere else.
Great, I'm happy for you.
If you dont like where you live, then leave.
I'm quite happy living in Australia thankyou very much, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
apparently its the best or everyone and their mama wouldnt be trying to get in here.
I know plently of Australians, Canadians, Europeans, Asians who are quite happy living where they are. Anyway, plenty of people want to live here, does that make us "the best" too?
You're acting as if I have personally attacked the U.S. I invite you to re-read my posts, as I have not said anything to give you that impression. Yes, I've criticised Americas foreign policy, that's not the same as criticising the entire nation and everything it stands for.
Io
I'm certain that whoever posted this thread had the recent U.S terrorist events on their mind. As the thread continued, the discussions all related to America. No ones bagging the U.S from what I can see, just pointing out details of your foreign policy.
Yes, but I'm certain WE are not terrorist, regardless of what everyone may think.
Yes, well it's within your rights to believe that.
And everyone keeps pointing out the bad things we have done in the past, basically saying we deserved what we got.
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I specifically said that I did not think that America deserved what it got.
And my point is, every nation makes mistakes, so why are we sooooo bad in everyones eyes????
Yep, it's true that every country has crimes in their foreign history. The website I linked to gives you some idea of why there is hostility towards your nation.
I live in America, I actually enjoy living in America and would not want to live anywhere else.
Great, I'm happy for you.
If you dont like where you live, then leave.
I'm quite happy living in Australia thankyou very much, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
apparently its the best or everyone and their mama wouldnt be trying to get in here.
I know plently of Australians, Canadians, Europeans, Asians who are quite happy living where they are. Anyway, plenty of people want to live here, does that make us "the best" too?
You're acting as if I have personally attacked the U.S. I invite you to re-read my posts, as I have not said anything to give you that impression. Yes, I've criticised Americas foreign policy, that's not the same as criticising the entire nation and everything it stands for.
Io
IO
Im sorry you think that post was directed toward you specifically, it wasn't. Im just talking in general. You have some very good points, but as I read through other threads and this one, a WHOLE LOTTA people are raggin on America and alot of em are people who live in America. I appreciate your input, I really do, but you have to understand my side of things too. Peace.
Im sorry you think that post was directed toward you specifically, it wasn't. Im just talking in general. You have some very good points, but as I read through other threads and this one, a WHOLE LOTTA people are raggin on America and alot of em are people who live in America. I appreciate your input, I really do, but you have to understand my side of things too. Peace.
ImaHamster2
Registered Senior Member
This hamster long since observed that US bashing is a favored pastime on this forum. Even the few who hold an overall favorable view of the US seem to feel obligated to include a few jabs. The positive role the US has played in world affairs is largely ignored.
This hamster has checked out some of the URL’s to web sites listing US “crimes”. The samples were hardly unbiased versions of history. The ones this hamster read were very slanted. Some were revisionist history that totally ignored the historical context of the event. Undoubtedly the US, either its government or forces operating under government authority, has been responsible for a few atrocities. The US has at times supported bad people in pursuit of its national interest. Overall, the sites were propaganda rather than history.
The US is large and powerful. It has fingers in most everything. There is no way the US (or any country) can avoid making mistakes, at times colossal mistakes. The US highly values freedom of information. That means US citizens have the right to dig up the dirt and shout it to the world. Yep, there has been a lot of dirt. That is the nature of the American system. Expose the dirt to clean it up. Expose the mistakes to keep them from being repeated. (Hopefully 911 won’t keep US citizens from speaking out when they disagree with US government actions.)
The US government’s responsibility is to its own citizens. Only because US citizens care about other countries and their people does the US government have any responsibility to the rest of the world. The US government, as does every government, puts it’s own interests first. In this hamster’s opinion the US does try to be a good world citizen.
As for aid, many of the countries that truly need help don’t share the beliefs and values common in the US. Attempts to change the countries are viewed as interference. Giving aid without changing the system is often ineffective. The US is under no obligation to give unconditional aid.
There is justified worry about the US. Every country that deals with the US is doing so from a position of weaker military and economic strength. This imbalance causes problems. (Absolute power corrupts absolutely.) Bureaucrats representing the US wield enormous power. Those bureaucrats become arrogant. Even friends don’t like arrogant behavior.
This hamster has a very favorable impression of Australia, Canada, and England. However, this hamster is quite happy to be a US citizen.
This hamster has checked out some of the URL’s to web sites listing US “crimes”. The samples were hardly unbiased versions of history. The ones this hamster read were very slanted. Some were revisionist history that totally ignored the historical context of the event. Undoubtedly the US, either its government or forces operating under government authority, has been responsible for a few atrocities. The US has at times supported bad people in pursuit of its national interest. Overall, the sites were propaganda rather than history.
The US is large and powerful. It has fingers in most everything. There is no way the US (or any country) can avoid making mistakes, at times colossal mistakes. The US highly values freedom of information. That means US citizens have the right to dig up the dirt and shout it to the world. Yep, there has been a lot of dirt. That is the nature of the American system. Expose the dirt to clean it up. Expose the mistakes to keep them from being repeated. (Hopefully 911 won’t keep US citizens from speaking out when they disagree with US government actions.)
The US government’s responsibility is to its own citizens. Only because US citizens care about other countries and their people does the US government have any responsibility to the rest of the world. The US government, as does every government, puts it’s own interests first. In this hamster’s opinion the US does try to be a good world citizen.
As for aid, many of the countries that truly need help don’t share the beliefs and values common in the US. Attempts to change the countries are viewed as interference. Giving aid without changing the system is often ineffective. The US is under no obligation to give unconditional aid.
There is justified worry about the US. Every country that deals with the US is doing so from a position of weaker military and economic strength. This imbalance causes problems. (Absolute power corrupts absolutely.) Bureaucrats representing the US wield enormous power. Those bureaucrats become arrogant. Even friends don’t like arrogant behavior.
This hamster has a very favorable impression of Australia, Canada, and England. However, this hamster is quite happy to be a US citizen.
Please everyone this post may not be intirly acurate.
OK this thread is the philosphy of terrorism so lets all for a minute forget that we are Australians, or English or Canadian or American. Lets try to get into the heads of people so despreat they are willing to DIE for there corse (i am not trying to take away from the appaling things they have done but rather trying to think like them)
Now the US has backed Israil against palistine (this maybe a lodgical thing for people living in the US but it probably annoyes the hell out of palistinans)
They see the UN as just a mouth for the US (i mean it IS in the US and the security council can veto stuff so not much is done that the US dosn't aprove of)
The US attacked Iraq to protect its oil interests (don't try to protend it was REALLY for the freedom of Quate)
The worlds money all seems to be in the US
The US keeps getting involved in internal politics everytime there intersts are jepadised
Lastly the US HAS done some appoling things in the past (Horsima for example)
Im sure I haven't got down ALL their complants but then i am only an Australian, not someone living on the otherside of the fence
Now i do have a few problems with the US personaly (relating to free trade) and im sure everyone will just dismis this post as "US bashing" but its not im trying to open some peoples eyes to the other side because unless you can change their view of you then the world is in for a very bad time (and i would HATE to be in the American army now because they are going to see ALOT of action with Bush in charge)
OK this thread is the philosphy of terrorism so lets all for a minute forget that we are Australians, or English or Canadian or American. Lets try to get into the heads of people so despreat they are willing to DIE for there corse (i am not trying to take away from the appaling things they have done but rather trying to think like them)
Now the US has backed Israil against palistine (this maybe a lodgical thing for people living in the US but it probably annoyes the hell out of palistinans)
They see the UN as just a mouth for the US (i mean it IS in the US and the security council can veto stuff so not much is done that the US dosn't aprove of)
The US attacked Iraq to protect its oil interests (don't try to protend it was REALLY for the freedom of Quate)
The worlds money all seems to be in the US
The US keeps getting involved in internal politics everytime there intersts are jepadised
Lastly the US HAS done some appoling things in the past (Horsima for example)
Im sure I haven't got down ALL their complants but then i am only an Australian, not someone living on the otherside of the fence
Now i do have a few problems with the US personaly (relating to free trade) and im sure everyone will just dismis this post as "US bashing" but its not im trying to open some peoples eyes to the other side because unless you can change their view of you then the world is in for a very bad time (and i would HATE to be in the American army now because they are going to see ALOT of action with Bush in charge)
Asguard
Your post didnt make sense to me. First you say this is thread about terrorism and lets try to think like one, and then you go on to bash the US. (?????) What do the two have in common, other than terrorists hate the US. I seriously doubt the reason terrorists make terrorists acts is the US's fault. (I have read about numerous terrorists acts in Italy, Spain ,etc before the 9/11 attack) You dont agree with the US but are you planning on wiping us out? No. Then the real issue is? Why do terrorists think the way they do? Not, what else did America do to piss em off. So please, please stop acting like terrorists are justified by the mistakes we have made, because they are not.
Your post didnt make sense to me. First you say this is thread about terrorism and lets try to think like one, and then you go on to bash the US. (?????) What do the two have in common, other than terrorists hate the US. I seriously doubt the reason terrorists make terrorists acts is the US's fault. (I have read about numerous terrorists acts in Italy, Spain ,etc before the 9/11 attack) You dont agree with the US but are you planning on wiping us out? No. Then the real issue is? Why do terrorists think the way they do? Not, what else did America do to piss em off. So please, please stop acting like terrorists are justified by the mistakes we have made, because they are not.
You are proably right to some exstent there would be people who hate you for envy or simply because you are different.
That DOSN'T mean that you can't change the minds of MOST of the people who become terrorists. Lumping them all together and just calling them terrorists and saying they are like vermin or something is a VERY good way of making the cycle continue.
They hate you so they blow you up.
SO you invade THEIR contrys and blow THEM up.
SO they hate you even more and they blow something else up.
anyone see a patten (ask England about Northen Irland)
To STOP the cycle you first have to understand why they feel that way then change their minds about it. Make no mestake this IS the hard way but it is also the ONLY way to get an actual lasting peace in the world (short of just deploying Nukes and killing EVERY HUMAN ON THIS PLANET).
That DOSN'T mean that you can't change the minds of MOST of the people who become terrorists. Lumping them all together and just calling them terrorists and saying they are like vermin or something is a VERY good way of making the cycle continue.
They hate you so they blow you up.
SO you invade THEIR contrys and blow THEM up.
SO they hate you even more and they blow something else up.
anyone see a patten (ask England about Northen Irland)
To STOP the cycle you first have to understand why they feel that way then change their minds about it. Make no mestake this IS the hard way but it is also the ONLY way to get an actual lasting peace in the world (short of just deploying Nukes and killing EVERY HUMAN ON THIS PLANET).
Truthfully I don't think humans could stop the way they are. If mankind could change, it would of happened already. Its the thirst for blood, the whole revenge thing that just won't stop short of a miracle or annihilation. When will it end? Has it ever? All you need to do is pick up a history book, doesn't matter what era, and just see what man has done for thousands of years. What they have accomplished with technology. They always strove to find better and quicker ways to kill. Stone knives, swords, guns, tanks, palnes, missiles, nukes. Why is that? What is the unseen drive that compels man to kill each other. Killing every human on this planet, wasn't that the idea all along.ASGARD wroteshort of just deploying Nukes and killing EVERY HUMAN ON THIS PLANET).
I
Io Aurelia
Guest
Strgrl, believe me, I can see it from your side. Living in western country who also happens to be an ally, means that I can see Americas side very clearly.
It's really hard to say anything about your country without people taking it as a bagging.
I agree with Asguard, you can't just lump all terrorists together, some terrorize because of religion, some because of land disputes, some because of poverty, the only thing they have in common is that they all chose to carry out their actions using violence and threats.
Originally posted by Asguard-
They hate you so they blow you up.
SO you invade THEIR contrys and blow THEM up.
SO they hate you even more and they blow something else up.
Yep Yep......exactly!
It's a vicious cycle. The current war is not solving the underlying issues which caused the terrorist attacks in the first place. All it's achieving is making Osamas followers feel even MORE justified in their hostile actions.
If you are successful at killing him, you know what will happen? They'll make a Martyred Hero out of him....I can just see it now, they'll say he was The Righteous Savior of Islam, who was wrongfully killed by the Evil West.
Sooner or later, more Osamas will crop up, and they'll convince another group of men to sacrifice their lives in the name of Allah. And then what? More terrorist attacks. More war, more terrorist attacks, more war...and on and on and on, when will it end?
Never, if you keep dealing with it in this way.
Io
It's really hard to say anything about your country without people taking it as a bagging.
I agree with Asguard, you can't just lump all terrorists together, some terrorize because of religion, some because of land disputes, some because of poverty, the only thing they have in common is that they all chose to carry out their actions using violence and threats.
Originally posted by Asguard-
They hate you so they blow you up.
SO you invade THEIR contrys and blow THEM up.
SO they hate you even more and they blow something else up.
Yep Yep......exactly!
It's a vicious cycle. The current war is not solving the underlying issues which caused the terrorist attacks in the first place. All it's achieving is making Osamas followers feel even MORE justified in their hostile actions.
If you are successful at killing him, you know what will happen? They'll make a Martyred Hero out of him....I can just see it now, they'll say he was The Righteous Savior of Islam, who was wrongfully killed by the Evil West.
Sooner or later, more Osamas will crop up, and they'll convince another group of men to sacrifice their lives in the name of Allah. And then what? More terrorist attacks. More war, more terrorist attacks, more war...and on and on and on, when will it end?
Never, if you keep dealing with it in this way.
Io
Okay, say you were the president of our country when 911 happened, what would you have done?? Go over there with some psycotherapists and tried to pick Osamas brain? (Im being sarcastic here) I dont like war, at all. But we gave them a chance to turn him over, its not like we had many options. First it was the US Embassy in Africa, then the USS Cole, and then NYC. What next?? Im happy that were finally talking about the "actual mentality" of the terrorists instead of US bashing, but Im wondering how everyone else would have reacted? Seriously. How can we make this situation better?
Groove on
What do you do when you want ANY killer from a country. You apply to have them exstardited and if that failes you live with it. Australia had been hunting Christerfer Scase (sorry that isn't how you spell it) in spain for YEARS but when Spain turned us down we didn't invade them. We just ranted and raved about it and it filled all the slow news days. Now he didn't kill anyone but the same princaple applyes. NO amout of war will bring ONE of the dead back to life.
A small war, while things are still managable, can prevent things from getting to the point of a much larger war. When there's a clear trend of a group (and Bin Laden didn't personally show up to kill people, so we are talking about a group rather than an individual) getting more violent and dangerous, there comes a point where you act now in order to prevent a worse future. It shouldn't be about revenge, but there should be an effort to prevent things from building up to a far worse future.
SURE as small war say like Northan Irland, or Maybe Israil, or Vetnam, or The cold war or heaven forbid Iraq
And who said this was a small war. Didn't your president say that this war might not end in our life time. You call THAT a small war, not even the world wars lasted that long
And who said this was a small war. Didn't your president say that this war might not end in our life time. You call THAT a small war, not even the world wars lasted that long