Perhaps God was very disappointed in Abraham

[greenberg]

Perhaps God was very disappointed in Abraham.

Perhaps God, upon witnessing that Abraham was about to plunge the knife into his son's heart, God actually thought something like "Have you no moral conscience?! Do you just do every stupid thing ordered to you?!"

Perhaps the instruction to kill his son was not God testing Abraham's obedience, but his moral conscience and discernment of right and wrong.

 

[nietzschefan]

Like I said in the other thread, it's a sick test either way. This story is why I dropped the Baptist Church at age 6.

 

[Myles]

Perhaps God, upon witnessing that Abraham was about to plunge the knife into his son's heart, God actually thought something like "Have you no moral conscience?! Do you just do every stupid thing ordered to you?!"

Perhaps the instruction to kill his son was not God testing Abraham's obedience, but his moral conscience and discernment of right and wrong.

Whatever way you look at it, it's a sick story invented by humankind. Why waste time on such rubbish ?

 

[greenberg]

Whatever way you look at it, it's a sick story invented by humankind. Why waste time on such rubbish ?

Myles, would you do something that you find morally repugnant, if it promised you to solve your problems?

If you find lying, killing and stealing to be morally repugnant, would you still lie, kill and steal, if by doing so you would solve your problems?

 

[Myles]

Myles, would you do something that you find morally repugnant, if it promised you to solve your problems?

If you find lying, killing and stealing to be morally repugnant, would you still lie, kill and steal, if by doing so you would solve your problems?

I cannot give a straight answer to such a general question. If , for example, my family were in the hands of terrorists, I would have no compuction about killing the terrorists. There is a spectrum of possibilities.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: If humankind uses Abraham as a role model, we area all doomed.

 

[Norsefire]

This isn't a black and white issue; remember, at the time of Abraham, society was different. We can't judge Abraham, no more than people a thousand years from now can judge us.

It's a rather interesting test of devotion.

 

[CheskiChips]

Perhaps God, upon witnessing that Abraham was about to plunge the knife into his son's heart, God actually thought something like "Have you no moral conscience?! Do you just do every stupid thing ordered to you?!"

Perhaps the instruction to kill his son was not God testing Abraham's obedience, but his moral conscience and discernment of right and wrong.

Believe it or not, it was unforunately common practice in many societies. :bawl:

Much of the story is showing that it's unacceptable, and should not be practiced. That's not the full interpretation. But it is an interpretation that is agreed upon by nearly all religions today.

 

[greenberg]

Believe it or not, it was unforunately common practice in many societies.

Yes. I've heard that, for example in the Norse culture, parents were allowed to kill even their adult child if the child didn't respect them.

 

[Orleander]

Perhaps God, upon witnessing that Abraham was about to plunge the knife into his son's heart, God actually thought something like "Have you no moral conscience?! Do you just do every stupid thing ordered to you?!"

Perhaps the instruction to kill his son was not God testing Abraham's obedience, but his moral conscience and discernment of right and wrong.

I always think of Andrea Yates when I think of Abraham. Was she psychotic or killing for her God? Is there a difference really

 

[SnakeLord]

If humankind uses Abraham as a role model, we area all doomed

It's not Abraham one should be worrying about - he was just a little human. What would doom us all is using this god as a role model - the god that commanded it in the first place, condoned Abrahams marriage to his sister and so on and so forth.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Perhaps the instruction to kill his son was not God testing Abraham's obedience, but his moral conscience and discernment of right and wrong.

Didn't deter God, who if you believe, actually followed through with a son's sacrifice when the time came.

 

[greenberg]

Didn't deter God, who if you believe, actually followed through with a son's sacrifice when the time came.

But in that, nobody died or was eternally diminished. Jesus' body (which is not the same as Jesus) was tortured and crucified, but then in the resurrection, this torture was in effect annulled. Nothing really happened.

 

[Simon Anders]

Myles, would you do something that you find morally repugnant, if it promised you to solve your problems?

If you find lying, killing and stealing to be morally repugnant, would you still lie, kill and steal, if by doing so you would solve your problems?

And by proxy, the answer is generally yes. Most societies defend and advance their interests with torture, war, radically utilitarian outlooks on the poor, foreigners, enemy combatants, spies, informers......Many people turn a blind eye on this - but I am not sure this evades tacit responsibility.

Secular and religious alike, it seems, take a realpolitik stance toward very harsh moral acts. Cornered many would say that it is the greatest good for the greatest number. Or would say that in the real world there will be such acts. Or will be more honest like Madanthonywayne and say that such acts are necessary and in a sense good because they are a part of being strong - a word with positive connotations.

A few understand the issue AND struggle to reduce the incidence of such acts.

And there are probably other kinds of reactions.

But when secular organizations or governments ask, Abrahams step forward and most of the village goes about its business AS IF it were not happening.

And this is of course true for religious societies.

 

[Quigly]

I'd be more interested in the way Isaac is perceiving this whole dilemna...wasn't he old enough to get away so to speak..You see your pops with a knife saying that he has to sacrifice you, you'd think to run away would you not or gut shot your pops and get the F out. Instead, it doesn't give record as to anything more than willingly trusting his dad...

 

[greenberg]

And by proxy, the answer is generally yes. Most societies defend and advance their interests with torture, war, radically utilitarian outlooks on the poor, foreigners, enemy combatants, spies, informers......Many people turn a blind eye on this - but I am not sure this evades tacit responsibility.

But there is more: There is the responsibility toward oneself.
Would you mutilate yourself in order to be saved.
Would you put a gun to your head and pull the trigger in order to be saved.
Some people tell us to do just that.