Parallels

[Michael]

When we look back in History and compare the Christian Crusades with the Islamic Crusades - do you suppose we could continue these comparisons with the modern Jewish Crusade?

It seems to me:
Each believe in One God.
Each kill for their Belief in God.
Each think they are God's chosen people.
Each think they have the only true Book of God.
Each think have their own man on the inside (Mosses, Jesus, Mohammad)
Each has a culture of teaching their kids that only their religion is the only "true" one.
Each seem to like playing the Victim.
All kill in the name of God.
Many create political systems the discriminate against the other.

With that in mind, how would you compare the: Christian Crusades, Muslim Crusades, Jewish Crusades what are the common links?

 

[Lori_7]

i'm pretty sure that christians still think that the jews are god's chosen people.

 

[Black Jack]

Ironically enough...All are based on, and indeed worship the God of Abraham.

There's more in common with the religions than there is different.

 

[Michael]

i'm pretty sure that christians still think that the jews are god's chosen people.

Hmmmmmm :scratchin: Why? I mean, after the flood everyone is derived from the same blood line so they're not chosen by blood. How exactly ARE they chosen? If you're a Jew but become a Christian are you still chosen? What if you become atheist? Still chosen?

Chosen for what exactly? What does it mean chosen. My grandmother's mother's mother's German mother was a Jew who converted to Catholic. As this is all on the maternal lineage - am I a chosen people?

Ironically enough...All are based on, and indeed worship the God of Abraham.

There's more in common with the religions than there is different.

Yes, that does appear to be a big part of the problem doesn't it? I mean, back in the Roman Empire or Greek Empire or Persian, Egyptian, Indian, Chinese... people fought for their leaders who usually were Gods or demi-Gods but not just "for God".

I mean, I think people went to battle under a banner of a particular God. Say, Athena. But they weren't stupid enough to think they were fighting for anything other than what they were doing - killing people and stealing their shit, raping their women and selling the losers into slavery. It's as if as Human's got more Civilized, they needed to make up a better mandate so they could feel better about all this. And what better one than killing ... get this... for God. Haaa!!! I'm not killing for myself, no way, I'm killing For God. It just so happens because I did all this Killing, that God rewards me with all the stuff.

I dare not say Vikings killed specifically FOR their Gods? Or Samurai? No, they killed for their personal glory, their honor and all that jazz. They asked to be blessed by a God. But they weren't deluded into thinking they were helping THE Gods!?!? I mean, as if God needs an person to strap on a bomb and blow up some women and children?!?! If She wanted them dead - then they'd be dead.

 

[Lori_7]

Hmmmmmm :scratchin: Why? I mean, after the flood everyone is derived from the same blood line so they're not chosen by blood. How exactly ARE they chosen? If you're a Jew but become a Christian are you still chosen? What if you become atheist? Still chosen?

Chosen for what exactly? What does it mean chosen. My grandmother's mother's mother's German mother was a Jew who converted to Catholic. As this is all on the maternal lineage - am I a chosen people?

i have absolutely no idea; it's just the impression i get from listening to some christians. they're known for supporting israel, as if they have an obligation to them.

all i know about is the church...the bride of christ. that has nothing to do with race or heritage at all (as far as i know).

 

[Adstar]

When we look back in History and compare the Christian Crusades with the Islamic Crusades - do you suppose we could continue these comparisons with the modern Jewish Crusade?

It seems to me:
Each believe in One God.

True

Each kill for their Belief in God.

False. true Christians never kill for their belief in God.

Each think they are God's chosen people.

False. The Israelites are Gods chosen people. The problem so many people have with this is they assume that their being chosen is a mark of spiritual superiority from God upon them. Some type of mark of a superior race. Once one reads scriptures one realises they where chosen for Gods purpose. God revealed His will to the world through His interaction with them. They where chosen to be used.

Each think they have the only true Book of God.

Well the Torah is a true Book of God it's just not complete. The quran is a worthless as the book of mormon.

Each think have their own man on the inside (Mosses, Jesus, Mohammad)

moses was just a man who failed God and was barred from entering the promised land.

muhammed was just a man, a blood thirsty paedophile.

Jesus while having flesh and blood and a body of a man was not a man. Jesus and God are one.

Each has a culture of teaching their kids that only their religion is the only "true" one.

True. There is only one will of God.

Each seem to like playing the Victim.

Well true Christians are Victors. We have eternal Victory through the Messiah Jesus. Of cource in this world we can only ever be victims because we are barred from taking revenge for oursleves.

All kill in the name of God.

False. True Christians never kill other human beings period. True muslims are called to kill untill the entire world submits to islam and there is no other religion but islam.

Many create political systems the discriminate against the other.

True Christians allow the authorities of this world to rule as they deem fit. True Christians never take positions of authority we leave that to the servants of the prince of this world, satan.

With that in mind, how would you compare the: Christian Crusades, Muslim Crusades, Jewish Crusades what are the common links?

Correction: catholic Crusades, not Christian Crusades.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Michael]

Adstar,

If we are all descendants of Noah, at which point did people become "chosen" people and "non-chosen" people?

What qualifies people as being "chosen"?
If you were to convert to Judaism would YOU then be a chosen person?
If Jew became atheist, are they still a chosen person?
If a Christians had a child, and that child was adopted and raised as a Jew, are they a chosen person?

 

[Adstar]

Adstar,

If we are all descendants of Noah, at which point did people become "chosen" people and "non-chosen" people?

No sure what year it was. But it was when God Selected Abraham and His offspring. Noah was not part of the Chosen people, he was before Abraham.

What qualifies people as being "chosen"?
If you were to convert to Judaism would YOU then be a chosen person?

The qualifier is being a descendant of Abraham.

If Jew became atheist, are they still a chosen person?

Yeah. Becoming an atheist does not change who ones ancestors is.

If a Christians had a child, and that child was adopted and raised as a Jew, are they a chosen person?

Nope. Although it may be that the Child was already a descendant of Abraham if so then they would be a part of the chosen people.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Michael]

OK then, let's go back to me. My grandmother decided her hobby was going to be building a family tree. I've never actually looked at it, but, apparently she did spend about 10-12 years getting records from all across Europe translated etc... On her side of the family, she can trace her maternal lineage back to Germany and, on one direct branch, a Jewess who converted to Catholic when she married a Catholic German man.

So, am I a "Chosen People"?

What is so "special" about "blood" that trump having ZERO Jewish ethnicity? Think about this for a moment. There are ethnically "Jewish" people who have zero blood, but, by your logic, they are not "chosen people" whereas I am? Another great example of superstitious thinking and Carrier Pigeons.


What percentage of "blood" infers "chosen people" status?


Stop and think how asinine this is. Why the f*ck would a God give to craps about blood lineage? It wouldn't. If It carried about anything, It would care about behavior and thoughts. Not blood. We all share 99.9999999999999999999% the same DNA code which builds blood. Do you honestly think some God cares about this ?0.0000000000000000000000000001% versus 0.0000000000000000000000000000999999999% Carrier Pigeons!!





There are codes in our DNA that make social animals worry about "our" DNA being passed on. This is the real reason why "God" cares. It's a throwback to our Ape-Like hominids. The very same reason why the Alpha-male silver-back runs around killing his rival males. So that it's His DNA that gets passed on. There's your God Adstar. Your "chosen people" meme is actually just human-beings putting into words the feelings they have due to this little (but powerful) DNA behavioral program.

Japanese are "chosen people" too. Or so they think.
The same with Chinese.
Everyone actually.
Because we all carry this behavior DNA. The real God of the "Chosen People".

 

[Adstar]

OK then, let's go back to me. My grandmother decided her hobby was going to be building a family tree. I've never actually looked at it, but, apparently she did spend about 10-12 years getting records from all across Europe translated etc... On her side of the family, she can trace her maternal lineage back to Germany and, on one direct branch, a Jewess who converted to Catholic when she married a Catholic German man.

So, am I a "Chosen People"?

If you are a descendant of Abraham then you are part of the chosen people.

What is so "special" about "blood" that trump having ZERO Jewish ethnicity? Think about this for a moment. There are ethnically "Jewish" people who have zero blood, but, by your logic, they are not "chosen people" whereas I am? Another great example of superstitious thinking and Carrier Pigeons.

"carrier pigeons" ?? i have no idea what that expression means, must be something unique to your culture, but anyway I think you mean culturally Jewish who have zero blood. Because you cannot be ethnically Jewish without being a descendant of Abraham. If they think they are Jewish without being descendants of Abraham then they are deluding themselves.

What percentage of "blood" infers "chosen people" status?

Percentage means nothing. If you are a descendant of Abraham you are a descendant of Abraham, full stop.

Stop and think how asinine this is. Why the f*ck would a God give to craps about blood lineage? It wouldn't. If It carried about anything, It would care about behavior and thoughts. Not blood. We all share 99.9999999999999999999% the same DNA code which builds blood. Do you honestly think some God cares about this ?0.0000000000000000000000000001% versus 0.0000000000000000000000000000999999999% Carrier Pigeons!!

Once again here you show how you (like many others) consider chosen as being akin to being approved or being saved.

I will say it again, being chosen is not some stamp of approval or some acknowledgement of moral superiority directed towards the descendants of Abraham. God repeatedly referred to the Israelites as a stiff necked people. The descendants of Abraham where chosen to be used for Gods purpose for His glory not for their glory.

There are codes in our DNA that make social animals worry about "our" DNA being passed on. This is the real reason why "God" cares. It's a throwback to our Ape-Like hominids. The very same reason why the Alpha-male silver-back runs around killing his rival males. So that it's His DNA that gets passed on. There's your God Adstar. Your "chosen people" meme is actually just human-beings putting into words the feelings they have due to this little (but powerful) DNA behavioral program.

Japanese are "chosen people" too. Or so they think.
The same with Chinese.
Everyone actually.
Because we all carry this behavior DNA. The real God of the "Chosen People".

Yeah a lot of people in this world think they belong to a special race or group, its called vanity and most people like to have their vanity massaged by those who promote them as being special. Hey just look at yourself and your atheist friends in here, you guys love to think of yourselves as a special elite of the world, so superior to the superstitious theists sub humans. If you could take a step forward and turn around and look back at yourselves you might see the similarities between yourselves and hitlers nazi followers.

But anyway scriptures says:

Acts 10
34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Michael]

OK, maybe I'm not getting it.

What's the point in being a chosen person?
Two people are born. Both people live a normal life as a Christian. One is a Chosen People, the other is not. Nothing special happens in their lives. Then they die. They both go to be judged.
So? is there ANY different treatment for one or the other?

Under what circumstances would there be a difference? Considering a large number of Chosen People are not Jewish culturally.

 

[Adstar]

OK, maybe I'm not getting it.

What's the point in being a chosen person?
Two people are born. Both people live a normal life as a Christian. One is a Chosen People, the other is not. Nothing special happens in their lives. Then they die. They both go to be judged.
So? is there ANY different treatment for one or the other?

No. The Jewish Christian and the Gentile Christian are both forgiven all their sins by the atonement of the Messiah Jesus and both have eternal life with God.

Under what circumstances would there be a difference? Considering a large number of Chosen People are not Jewish culturally.

The only difference will be for 144,000 innocents alive at the time of the return of the Messiah Jesus. 12,000 descendants of each of the 12 tribes of Israel will be protected through the Day of God's wrath upon earth called the Day of the Lord. These 144,000 will be the first human citizens of the Millennial Kingdom set up on earth over the lands God promised He would provide for them. They are the Remnant spoken off in prophecy.


But coming back to the "chosen" issue. Try to think of it as God selecting a group of people to act as an example for the entire world. So God reveals His will through them, He reveals the price of rebellion against His will through them and He demonstrates His way to eternal reconciliation through them. He demonstrates all His attributes through them. Now this group goes through a lot of hardships because of this but is also blessed by the wisdom that God gives to them. The Laws of the Torah have been a great blessing to the Jewish people down through the ages, Kosher food laws are a blessing for the health of anyone who follows them. Just the fact that Jewish boys are required to read from the Torah at age 12 at his Bar Mitzvah makes literacy a standard state for Jews. In times past while only the elites of the gentile people could read and write the vast majority of their Jewish population could read. Just this alone gave them an incredible advantage in life. So being chosen has been a burden and a blessing to the Israelites. But their being Chosen was not for their glory, it was for Gods purpose. God chose them for His greater plan.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Michael]

The only difference will be for 144,000 innocents alive at the time of the return of the Messiah Jesus. 12,000 descendants of each of the 12 tribes of Israel will be protected through the Day of God's wrath upon earth called the Day of the Lord. These 144,000 will be the first human citizens of the Millennial Kingdom set up on earth over the lands God promised He would provide for them. They are the Remnant spoken off in prophecy.

Now this is interesting - I didn't know that.

But coming back to the "chosen" issue. Try to think of it as God selecting a group of people to act as an example for the entire world. So God reveals His will through them, He reveals the price of rebellion against His will through them and He demonstrates His way to eternal reconciliation through them. He demonstrates all His attributes through them. Now this group goes through a lot of hardships because of this but is also blessed by the wisdom that God gives to them. The Laws of the Torah have been a great blessing to the Jewish people down through the ages, Kosher food laws are a blessing for the health of anyone who follows them. Just the fact that Jewish boys are required to read from the Torah at age 12 at his Bar Mitzvah makes literacy a standard state for Jews. In times past while only the elites of the gentile people could read and write the vast majority of their Jewish population could read. Just this alone gave them an incredible advantage in life. So being chosen has been a burden and a blessing to the Israelites. But their being Chosen was not for their glory, it was for Gods purpose. God chose them for His greater plan.

And that is why I said it doesn't make any sense to be based on "blood". What more important, being born with a drop of DNA strand (so you're a so-called descendant of Abraham) versus living the dream (being culturally Jewish). Not eating yummy pepperoni pizza, not having shark fin soup, no BBQ porkchops, not to mention having the end of willy snipped..... :shrug:

It doesn't make sense. As a "People"

 

[Adstar]

And that is why I said it doesn't make any sense to be based on "blood". What more important, being born with a drop of DNA strand (so you're a so-called descendant of Abraham) versus living the dream (being culturally Jewish). Not eating yummy pepperoni pizza, not having shark fin soup, no BBQ porkchops, not to mention having the end of willy snipped..... :shrug:

It doesn't make sense. As a "People"

Well it does not make sense... to you.

But God chose to select a group of people, a nation if you like to make an example of and show the world His will. He decided to create a nation out of the descendants of one man Abraham. It does seem logical to me in a way because if you want to create a controlled test group the best way to do that is take advantage of the natural bond of blood and kinship that comes from having a nation derived from one man.

hummm never had shark fin soup, what does that taste like? but i did get the end of my willy snipped as did most kids in my country during the time of my birth, a gentile adoption of a Jewish custom based on the health benefits getting your willy snipped gives you. I don't eat pork either, that’s another health based decision.

Oh and the 144,000.. its all there in the book of Revelation.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Michael]

That's the thing. There may be a Nation of Jews (many who many not have any DNA from Abraham), but there is not a Nation of Chosen People. Because for "Chosen People", some are living in France, others Ethiopia, others still Thailand, some are Jewish, others Christians others still Buddhist even Muslim. Some speak English, other Hebrew others Chinese etc... there's no "Nation of People", they're all different faiths, religions (or not), languages, cultures, ideas, etc.... MANY OF WHOM ARE NOT JEWISH

So, there is no Nation of Chosen People, there may be a Nation of Jews - but they're not all Chosen People.

It's not all that inconceivable that at some point EVERYONE will have a little DNA from Abraham (actually, I'd like to see what's so special about his DNA that's even found in any "Choosen People".

 

[Adstar]

That's the thing. There may be a Nation of Jews (many who many not have any DNA from Abraham), but there is not a Nation of Chosen People. Because for "Chosen People", some are living in France, others Ethiopia, others still Thailand, some are Jewish, others Christians others still Buddhist even Muslim. Some speak English, other Hebrew others Chinese etc... there's no "Nation of People", they're all different faiths, religions (or not), languages, cultures, ideas, etc.... MANY OF WHOM ARE NOT JEWISH

Ok. first thing. God knows who is a descendant of Abraham and whom is not. Irrespective of how "JEWISH" they may or may not seem to be in your eyes and the eyes of humanity in general.

I say again in relation to the 144,000 at the return of the Messiah it will not matter from what cultural group or religious group they are taken from to be preserved. If they are all innocents then they will know next to nothing about the religion or culture of the places of their birth. So again the "chosen people" are for Gods purpose. Not for their purpose.

So, there is no Nation of Chosen People, there may be a Nation of Jews - but they're not all Chosen People.

You know that it is good that the "chosen people" are mostly hidden. You see satan and his followers seek to make God a liar and thereby show Him as being unworthy of His position of being the one and Only God. That’s why they have been working in vain all these years to destroy the Jews. Because if they exterminate the Jews then there can no longer be a Remanent of the Jews to preserve and therefore they can show the God of Abraham as a defeated liar.

But their plan falls down because the chosen people are not limited to the Jews, in fact many of the supposed Jews are as you say just cultural Jews and are not descendants of Abraham at all. There are descendants of Judah who are Christians who have no idea they are descendants of Judah. So the servants of satan can work deception upon the Jews and bring them to the final concentration camp "modern day Israel" and seek to exterminate them there, but all there work is in vain because God can perform His promise to Abraham without needing any Jews to do it.

It's not all that inconceivable that at some point EVERYONE will have a little DNA from Abraham (actually, I'd like to see what's so special about his DNA that's even found in any "Choosen People".

Well at some point given the natural ways of the word everyone would eventually have a little DNA from Abraham but God only needs 144,000 and now with probably hundreds of millions of people who are descendants of Abraham that 144,000 will not be hard to gather.

The DNA as you say is special not because the DNA itself is special but because the promise of God to Abraham is The Word of God and that is what is Special.

His will shall be done.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days