Pagan Fest

Tiassa

Let us not launch the boat ...
Valued Senior Member
I have been invited, on exceptionally short notice--well, not that exceptional, but ...--to a pagan festival the name and location of which I have yet to be told. I hope to find some fun conversational material for us at least, and some peace and quiet will be well appreciated. Until Sunday, then .... ;)

In the meantime, it does not appear that I will arrive early enough to attend Crowley's Gnostic Mass in the Tantric Temple :( so I'm sorry I don't get to include that in my recollections. I had hoped to see that, but work's work, and it's not time for short-notice vacations. Too bad about that.

Lacking a copy of the Gnostic Mass, I offer instead the 42nd Psalm (or Lie) of Frater Perdurabo:
In the Wind of the mind arises the turbulence called I.
It breaks; down shower the barren thoughts.
All life is choked.
This desert is the Abyss wherein is the Universe. The stars are but thistles in that waste.
Yet this desert is but one spot accursed in a world of bliss.
Now and again Travellers cross the desert; they come from the Great Sea, and to the Great Sea they go.
As they go they spill water; one day they will irrigate the desert, till it flower.
See! The five footprints of a Camel! V.V.V.V.V.

Peace & Harmony,
Tiassa :cool:
 
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That sounds like alot of fun. We have a sort of pagan festival here in Sweden too in the summer, but it´s more like a festival with a medievel theme. But anyhting goes. :D
 
Originally posted by Bebelina
That sounds like alot of fun. We have a sort of pagan festival here in Sweden too in the summer, but it´s more like a festival with a medievel theme. But anyhting goes.

May be you could share us with some pictures!
 
Oh, but I can´t go... too much work...but imagine stoned knights wandering around among campfires, whooing princesses of all kinds. :D
 
A couple of thoughts

I will forego the name of the festival I attended, for I have issues with the organizers; but for those who wonder about pagan discord, there's a reason there's so little. While the quote of the day seemed to reflect on the current organizers' "attention to minute detail", the obsessiveness of OTO philosophy seemed rather sharply contrasted against the undisciplined and joyous magick of the various crafts. Pagans will, I might add, apparently take jobs in marketing: I encountered a group of attendees whose insignia included a play on words which, unfortunately, nullified the relationship 'twixt the Goddess and the Witch. Be true, not cute, and one will find plenty to amuse oneself aside from one's own wit, or lack thereof.

But the ceremonies, presented under the seeming authority of a priestess devoted to Crowleyan OTO ritual gave most of the rituals a church-like feeling. The attendees, determined to not let discordant authoritarianism stain their weekend together, pretty much ignored certain of these minute details and, presented with a choice of inclusive, positive energy or a hideous disruption of ceremony, the priestess thankfully chose the former. In fact, as far as I know, the only hideous disruption of ceremony I recall came from within the House with which I attended. To the other, being kicked out of such a ritual had a rippling effect on other attendees; I'm not sure they were prepared for the presence of armed guards in a sacred space. (Did I mention something about OTO-inspired authoritarianism?)

If I'm less forthcoming on the positive details, let me say that part of that is that I've chosen to keep them close until I know what they mean. To describe certain tangible sensations presently escapes me. Suffice to say that I did, in fact, encounter a very familiar feminine spirit, and for once her gravity was directed at me. Anyone who thinks I'm not describing a psychological process is mistaken, for even the most Hidden Secrets, in order to be effective, must find application in the natural world. To my atheist friends, I might say, "Psychosis successful." The only problem I'm having is readjusting to the mundane: Work today was a nightmare. One of my bosses even went so far as to ask what was up; I'm quite confident she's learned not to ask such questions.

Some observations:

* The most well-behaved children appeared to be the least-formally disciplined; specifically, there was a sharp contrast when a parent spoke harshly, angrily, or sternly to a child: this method seemed the minority, and these children reacted poorly to authoritarianism. Admittedly, part of it was that parents generally only drew rules around the merchants and anyplace there was fire; I might also mention that even those who, like us, refrained from certain ceremonies due to the aforementioned ritual authoritarianism, did their kindliest best to prevent their children from interfering in the Circle. And it is worth noting as well that those parents who happened to be sitting out the mixed-hash Hexagram/Star Ruby(?!)/Spiral Dance taking place did not prevent their children from taking part, and even instructed their children on how to appropriately enter the Circle without the overseers noticing. (Yes, it can be done--imagine two drops of water coming slowly together.) But even among my immediate hosts, a parental approach respectful to the child's right of self-determination dominated, and appeared most successful.

* A note on the aforementioned mixed-hash ritual: I am not referring to mixing Lebanese and Kush hashishes; I refer to the colloquial sense similar to mutt. First, I am unsure of whether I saw the Star Ruby or not; it looked familiar, and while I actually had that very ritual in a book in the tent, I did not happen to bring a copy with the actual holy invocations in English; my Greek character-recognition is a little weak, and while the names invoked are also inscribed on my most accessible Tarot deck, they are thereupon inscribed in Hebrew, and I would, strangely, recognize them in Hebrew better than Greek. Point being, I'm not entirely sure that was the middle portion. But the Ritual of the Hexagram I would recognize in any language because, as a chap nearby noted: I didn't come to this thing to pray to the Jehovan lot. My amusement was almost crushing when I witnessed the mixing of a formal Qabalistic banishing and invocation; a Crowleyan ritual fantasy (dancing sylphs, gnomes, and salamanders, which was incredibly cool in its own right, you've gotta admit); and a resolutely Wiccan Spiral Dance that demonstrated why you shouldn't crowd a Circle with 150 people. My greatest irony is that I'm of the opinion that Crowley disliked lower magicks such as the Craft; he was after big game. So the mixing of traditions seemed perversely American: meant to be inclusive but not quite accomplishing the goal. Philosophically, it seems that one cannot bind Wicca that way; likewise, it seems that Wiccan liberty is inappropriate in the higher magickal forums, which concentrate largely on devotion and authority and, frankly, minute detail. Nonetheless, everyone participating achieved some personal benefit by the feel of it, and it's not like the whole thing didn't appreciably lift the rest of our spirits, too. Perhaps if it weren't for the temple guards the evening before, I would skip the analysis altogether. In the end, a whole lot of people lent their spirits to joy for a time, and the effect, in literary terms at least, was magickal. Don't let me say it wasn't outstandingly cool.

* Have you ever been at a large gathering of seemingly diverse people and not actually argued with anyone because there was nothing to argue about? Even the seemingly annoying sense of organizational authority was generally invisible. I can't quite describe how people dealt with it--or didn't, as such. I think everyone got along well because it was easier. And, to boot, certain social barriers were gone. Two or three times, I felt as if people far my senior and better educated in matters magickal spoke to me as if they felt they were learning from me. Don't look at me, I can't explain it. Paradoxically, one of the wisest minds I came across was approximately five years old. Or else an extremely young-looking eighty.

Honestly, I'd forgotten what it was like to be among natural unity. But I'm pretty sure I needed a couple of days in the woods with these people. Besides, I got a reasonable tan.

Peace & Harmony,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Notes on authority

While the degree of authoritarianism present at the festival generally didn't disrupt the celebration, I though it sensible, since I'm picking on Crowleyan notions, to support that antiauthoritarian stance with Crowley's own words: http://members.aa.net/~slmndr/uncle_al/lies/48.html Entitled Chinese Music, this is the 45th Psalm (Lie) of Perdurabo.
"Explain this happening!"
"It must have a 'natural' cause."
"It must have a 'supernatural' cause."
Let these two asses be set to grind corn.


May, might, must, should, probably, may be, we may safely assume, ought, it is hardly questionable, almost certainly -- poor hacks! let them be turned out to grass!

Proof is only possible in mathematics, and mathematics is only a matter of arbitrary conventions.

And yet doubt is a good servant but a bad master; a perfect mistress, but a nagging wife.

"White is white" is the lash of the overseer; "white is black" is the watchword of the slave. The Master takes no heed.

The Chinese cannot help thinking that the octave has 5 notes.

The more necessary anything appears to my mind, the more certain it is that I only assert a limitation.

I slept with Faith, and found a corpse in my arms on awaking; I drank and danced all night with Doubt, and found her a virgin in the morning.
I tend to think the detail-oriented authoritarianism missed the point. I generally tend to think that most, if not all, detail-oriented authoritarianism misses the point.

I figured to include the Lie above because it struck me as a vivid reflection of certain things I perceived both in the ritual my associates were kicked out of (I was already pissing drunk in the trees, having slipped out a few minutes before), and in the mixed-hash ceremony the following night about which I mumbled quite a bit in my last post. But, it's just thought for reflection. The link above shows the appropriate layout of the words on the page, and includes commentary written by Crowley several years after the Lies were written.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
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Re: A couple of thoughts

Originally posted by tiassa
Honestly, I'd forgotten what it was like to be among natural unity.
People who hate God always do have a "natural" unity, until the murder starts.

That's why pagan "fests" tend to be annual, and Christians meet daily.
 
Tony1

Your utter lack of knowledge is already apparent, and especially in that last post of yours. What, is there a Jesus Fair every day at the Clark County Fairgrounds in Washington? Seems to me it was only once a year.

:rolleyes:,
--Tiassa :cool:
 
Originally posted by tiassa
What, is there a Jesus Fair every day at the Clark County Fairgrounds in Washington? Seems to me it was only once a year.
Most churches that stick fairly close to the Bible have something happening pretty much every day.

The farther a church gets away from the Bible, the less often it seems to meet.

BTW, Charles Manson's thing was a good example of what happens when pagans spend too much time together. The Branch Davidians thing is another example, as was Jim Jones' People's Temple thing, and the Heaven's Gate thing, and... and...
 
Funny, I always thought the Branch Dividians were Biblically-based

Koresh was, after all, a splinter from the SDA's.

In the meantime: how often does your church gather people from several states? Geographical states, you know, defined on a political map? For instance, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and California, all at once? And how often do they take it out into an unusual location, such as a campground? Let me guess: every day you travel three-hundred miles to hang out with fellow Christians.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Tony

"BTW, Charles Manson's thing was a good example of what happens when pagans spend too much time together. The Branch Davidians thing is another example, as was Jim Jones' People's Temple thing, and the Heaven's Gate thing, and... and..."

and....and....the damned christain thing!!!!
 
Oh, puh-lease!

People who hate God always do have a "natural" unity, until the murder starts.

That's why pagan "fests" tend to be annual, and Christians meet daily.

Tony, what do you suppose you know about pagans? And from what source? :rolleyes:

The only hate I see is your apparent hatred of pagans. However, your comment only proves you know nothing about pagans. In your ignorance, you are spreading lies and misinformation, but I get the feeling you don't really care. I'm going to try to set the record straight anyway...

1) Pagans do not hate God, we simply believe in a different one than you do. To say anything else is ignorant at best, a lie at worst.

2) Our "fests" (accurate word would be either Esbat or Sabbat) occur at least 8 times a year for the major holydays (the Sabbats), plus 12 or 24 more times a year to celebrate the full and/or new moon (the Esbats). That's not including special occasions like celebrations for births and handfastings (weddings), funerals/wakes and plain ol' "let's have fun and sing some songs" gatherings that happen spontaneously throughout the year. Add to that the fact that many of our "fests" stretch out for 2 or more days at a time and it's quite a bit of time spent celebrating our religion together. I myself just came back from 3 days in the woods celebrating the first harvest.

Granted not all pagans can or wish to participate in this many rituals - this doesn't make them any less pagan. Many "solitary" pagans (like myself) have an altar or several altars in their home that they use to focus daily attention upon their Gods in addition to or as a substitue for shared celebrations. There are also several Christians that never set foot into a church but instead read the bible and worship from their own homes. Are you going to tell me these people are not true Christians? Can God not hear us unless we're in large numbers?? I don't think so, I give the Gods much more credit than that...

I'd like to see 300 Christians from diverse strains of Christianity and different parts of the world get together and try to celebrate a holyday. I'll bet you all the tea in China that there's a lot more discord, violence and anger present than at a similarly put together pagan gathering.

When you don't have to defend you beliefs as the one true belief, when you have the ability and open mindedness to accept that an infinte being has infinite paths to it...you are much more able to get along with and truly appreciate the people around you.
 
Re :Funny, I always thought the Branch Dividians were Biblically-based

Originally posted by tiassa
Funny, I always thought the Branch Dividians were Biblically-based
Koresh was, after all, a splinter from the SDA's.
That is like watching a movie that is "based" on the truth.

In the meantime: how often does your church gather people from several states? Geographical states, you know, defined on a political map? For instance, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and California, all at once?
I get the picture.
About once a week.
And how often do they take it out into an unusual location, such as a campground?
What does the "unusuality" of a location have to do with the price of rice in China?
Besides, what's unusual about a campground?

Originally posted by Rambler
and....and....the damned christain thing!!!!
There aren't a lot of damned Christians around.
Actually, it would be safe to say there aren't any.

Originally posted by Cupric
1) Pagans do not hate God, we simply believe in a different one than you do. To say anything else is ignorant at best, a lie at worst.
You can relax.
I know you believe in a different god.

I believe in that one, too, though.
Unfortunately, that particular one is going to fry, knows it and plans to take you with him.

I myself just came back from 3 days in the woods celebrating the first harvest.
Nothing new there.
That's been happening for thousands of years.

Granted not all pagans can or wish to participate in this many rituals - this doesn't make them any less pagan.
How true.
I'd say the same myself.
Are you going to tell me these people are not true Christians?
Let me guess where you're going with this.
The "lone" pagans are also true pagans?
Why, I'd say as much, also.

Can God not hear us unless we're in large numbers?? I don't think so, I give the Gods much more credit than that...
God, or for that matter, the various gods, have little trouble hearing.

I'd like to see 300 Christians from diverse strains of Christianity and different parts of the world get together and try to celebrate a holyday. I'll bet you all the tea in China that there's a lot more discord, violence and anger present than at a similarly put together pagan gathering.
You can see thousands of Christians together on TV every day.
Oddly enough, it is rare to see any discord, violence or anger at all.
Strangely though, the re-run of Woodstock left a bad taste in everybody's mouth.

When you don't have to defend you beliefs as the one true belief, when you have the ability and open mindedness to accept that an infinte being has infinite paths to it...you are much more able to get along with and truly appreciate the people around you.
Sounds so very spiritual, so very tolerant, so very heart-warming, but wrong.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(John 14:6, KJV).

If you're right, then Jesus is one of the ways and I lose nothing and you lose nothing.

If you're wrong, then I still lose nothing and you lose everything.
 
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Through the Mobius ...

tony1:
If you're right, then Jesus is one of the ways and I lose nothing and you lose nothing.

If you're wrong, then I still lose nothing and you lose everything.
Hey, I remember you using this line of reasoning with me once before. Nothing like rehashing, eh? Guess you can't get around that, since you are a Christian and all.

If I'm right, then I win my version of an afterlife and you lose your version.

If I'm wrong, then you win your version of an afterlife and I still get my version.

There aren't a lot of damned Christians around.
Actually, it would be safe to say there aren't any.
Aren't any ... Christians? I must agree. The only Christian there ever was ... yep, you guessed it.

You can see thousands of Christians together on TV every day.
Oddly enough, it is rare to see any discord, violence or anger at all.
Strangely though, the re-run of Woodstock left a bad taste in everybody's mouth.
What TV are you watching? Osaka-television? That's right, what you see on Christian TV is disparaging comments, narrow-mindedness, one-upmanship (tony1's classic rejoinder), incongruence, and walking double-standards. You see, Christianity leaves a bad taste in God's mouth.
 
Through the Mobius , and back out

Originally posted by pragmathen
Hey, I remember you using this line of reasoning with me once before.
It was similar but not identical.
Nothing like rehashing, eh?
It's "hashing" for some.

If I'm right, then I win my version of an afterlife and you lose your version.

If I'm wrong, then you win your version of an afterlife and I still get my version.
I think I remember you using this line of reasoning with me once before.
But based on the second half of that, I'd have to say you must be planning on getting toasted.
Otherwise, you wouldn't get your version either way.

That's right, what you see on Christian TV is disparaging comments, narrow-mindedness, one-upmanship (tony1's classic rejoinder), incongruence, and walking double-standards. You see, Christianity leaves a bad taste in God's mouth.
You must get Osaka-television yourself.
Mostly what I see on Christian TV is preaching.
Mind you that's all I watch, too.
This other stuff must be on during the day.

BTW, thanx for the "classic" compliment. Not everyone thinks of them as classics.
Along the same lines, are you sure that the incongruence you notice is actually in what I say?

Originally posted by Deadwood
Pragmathen you've never read Tiassa's posts before. they alway give me a case of dejavu
So I'm not the only one who's noticed that?
 
So I'm not the only one who's noticed that?

What you stated a couple of posts ago that you were "rehashing" was actually sadi by the Mathematician Pascal.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Hey Tony1 ... nice dodge

Should I assume it's an oversight? Or should I assume it's just sheer cowardice, as we've come to expect from your ilk? For all the ridicule you can put into having nothing to say, you forgot to address one of Cupric's questions:
Tony, what do you suppose you know about pagans? And from what source?
Why don't you try answering a vital issue for once, instead of sitting around and proving just how worthless Christianity is?

Don't get me wrong: we expect nothing more of you than a defamation of human potential in exchange for that self-assurance you display regarding your salvation.

But it would be interesting if you could establish, oh ... anything for once that demonstrates something ... oh, say, other than the notion that you absolutely missed the point of your own faith.

Given the amount that happens among Christians, though, we're hardly surprised about any of your flippant negativity toward humanity.

Try answering the question for once.

:rolleyes:
Tiassa :cool:
 
Deadwood, you parrot!

Pragmathen you've never read Tiassa's posts before. they alway give me a case of dejavue.
Coming from you, who prefers canned faith over genuine thought and resolution--or, so we can only conclude from the nature of your posts--that means about as much as anything Tony1 says: exactly nothing. I'll tell you what that sense of deja vu is, Deadwood ... it's you realizing that you have no clue regarding those things you're addressing. When you run out of faith statements to hide behind, you just start putting them up randomly and, as we see here, resorting to Tony1's brand of shite.

I know how hard you've worked to mask your Christian tendency to be a parrot, but you're going to have to come up with something better than that.

That's some real nice Christianing, there, boys. Or, so Clancy Wiggum would say.

:rolleyes:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
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