Overcoming Religious Indoctrination

[(Q)]

6 Steps Towards Sanity

Religious indoctrination is real. It is a traditionally based process of all cultures. Its power is such that peoples so affected have a ‘belief’ they have chosen their particular ‘faith’ above the many on offer throughout the planet.

All religions work on the principle of exposing each new generation to a single world-view, to the exclusion of all others, in a repetitious and authorative manner. Doubts, as to the veracity of such ‘teachings’ are not encouraged, indeed, are not tolerated.

Once learned, the information so gained is retained for life, allowing it to take on an instinctive mantle in later years. As with all acquired knowledge, such as learning to ride a bicycle or rote remembrance of mathematical time’s tables, once taught, unlearning is not an easy option.

This is not to say that the results of such methodology are not practically overcome-able.

Youthful brains soak up information with little effort, establishing permanent neuronic pathways. Older brains require considerably more effort to alter this situation. There are many Atheists to attest to this. In fact, it is the rule rather than the rarity that most Atheists were raised from infancy under some religious regime or other. Even the most intense religious indoctrination can be overcome.

Here is how it is achieved:

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/indoctrination.htm

 

[Baron Max]

Religious indoctrination is real. It is a traditionally based process of all cultures. Its power is...
All religions work on the principle of exposing each new generation to a single world-view,...
Once learned, the information so gained is retained for life,...

The same could be said of things about non-religious indoctrination ...like social behavior, cultural traditions, cultural attire, special cultural or social events, ...., any number of such things. Laws and rules of society are also indoctrinated into society's youth.

I wonder if you'd have all people shed those traditional indoctrinations as well as those of the religious nature? And if not, why not? Why pick on only the religious traditions and not the others.

Ahh, could it be your own bias against religions?

Baron Max

 

[jayleew]

6 Steps Towards Sanity


Here is how it is achieved:

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/indoctrination.htm

Your article is terribly biased. It does display the problem: brainwashing and indoctrination.

But, it does not help someone like me who is trying to neither to prove God exists or not, but to find the truth.

The problem with the article is that it assumes that Christianity is understood through the Bible, which teaches that God is loving. The article further assumes that because of calamities and other horrible things done by or to religious people, that God is not loving. I guess what I'm babbling about is that the author doesn't understand the Bible, so he ought not use the Bible's depiction of the chracter of God because God is justice with love. That's like a Christian who has no clue of evolution theories try to use them to prove that God exists.

Let's imagine there was no Bible (because most people don't read it...nor can stomach it). Without it, our gods could be as we imagined.

So, if I am brainwashed that God exists, and trying to find the truth, the article is useless because I don't know who God is. If I was trying to be an athiest, the article would be an epiphany, ignorant to the Bible. It is too biased to be a good article of any use to becoming deprogrammed.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, then let me just say the article sucks, and I don't believe in God, I was a Christian for 30 years, but I do seek the truth that evidence and reason reveals.

 

[(Q)]

The same could be said of things about non-religious indoctrination ...like social behavior, cultural traditions, cultural attire, special cultural or social events

I'd like to hear your examples that rival religious indoctrination?

Ahh, could it be your own bias against religions?

More likely your misunderstanding of indoctrination?

 

[Baron Max]

I'd like to hear your examples that rival religious indoctrination?

Huh? What?

More likely your misunderstanding of indoctrination?

Huh? What? Huh?

Baron Max

 

[(Q)]

Your article is terribly biased. It does display the problem: brainwashing and indoctrination.

But, it does not help someone like me who is trying to neither to prove God exists or not, but to find the truth.

Truth of what?

The problem with the article is that it assumes that Christianity is understood through the Bible, which teaches that God is loving.

The bible demonstrates god to be an egomaniac murderous despot. There are ample quotes from the bible.

Let's imagine there was no Bible (because most people don't read it...nor can stomach it). Without it, our gods could be as we imagined.

Gods are imagined, aren't they?

 

[jpappl]

Bring me your young.

Q, it's really more a comment on people's inability to face reality. It can be very difficult. I feel sorry for those indoctrinated as children because it would be incredibly hard to say to yourself, my parents lied to me. Kind of the way we all felt when we learned Santa Claus isn't real.

It's not the idea of god or a spirit that I object to so much, because afterall I can not prove there is no god. It's the fact that people of intelligence allow themselves to believe that their religion has found the answer. That they do not question it further because if they did they would realize it is false, not that there is no god, but their religion can not be both all knowing and full of holes at the same time. Where facts have proven there position wrong over and over again.

Which is why many people I know have shed their religious belief but still believe in a spirit and that we have souls.

The goal in my opinion to enlightenment is to knock down the walls that keep us from changing with the greater truths. Many people have yet to grow up, and cling to those ideas that provide comfort. Afterall, it's difficult to consider your non-existence.

For anyone who doubts how powerful that is. Take a moment, a brief moment.

Imagine you are no longer here, you have died, you are gone, you no longer exist other than in the memories of friends and family. Really dig down deep and understand you will be gone one day.

Most people have a hard time wrapping their mind around their inevitable lack of existence.

Because of that religion can be a very powerful and comforting drug.

 

[leopold]

Kind of the way we all felt when we learned Santa Claus isn't real.

i never did believe in santa claus, or the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy, or the sandman, or the yeti.

as far as god goes i can't really say i believe in that either, but on the other hand i'm convinced that life is more than an arrangement of molecules.

 

[jpappl]

Leo,

"i never did believe in santa claus, or the easter bunny, or the tooth fairy, or the sandman, or the yeti."

Well then you were wise beyond your years.

"as far as god goes i can't really say i believe in that either, but on the other hand i'm convinced that life is more than an arrangement of molecules."

Which is different then claiming a religion has the answers. You are perfectly capable of deeming for yourself why we are here and what it's all about, just as I am. It is what we believe.

I asked to imagine our individual lack of existence because it is powerful and it is difficult to overcome the idea. Which to Q's question why it's difficult to overcome religious indoctrination.

 

[one_raven]

The same could be said of things about non-religious indoctrination ...like social behavior, cultural traditions, cultural attire, special cultural or social events, ...., any number of such things. Laws and rules of society are also indoctrinated into society's youth.

I agree.

I wonder if you'd have all people shed those traditional indoctrinations as well as those of the religious nature?

I wouldn't treat them any differently.
I take a very active role in doing my best to understand the difference between my own thoughts and what has been foisted upon me by society and other influences.
I work to understand where my thoughts and beliefs come from, and question them on an ongoing basis.
I think all would benefit from such a self exploration.

 

[jpappl]

One raven

"I take a very active role in doing my best to understand the difference between my own thoughts and what has been foisted upon me by society and other influences.
I work to understand where my thoughts and beliefs come from, and question them on an ongoing basis.
I think all would benefit from such a self exploration."

This is important and we should all question what is being foisted upon us.

But to compare this: from Baron Max,

"The same could be said of things about non-religious indoctrination ...like social behavior, cultural traditions, cultural attire, special cultural or social events, ...., any number of such things. Laws and rules of society are also indoctrinated into society's youth. "

I would suggest that the two are not the same. One, is the connection between people with cultural changes that take place for better or worse over time, there is still the connection with reality, other people and earthly events, in other words what is going on here in front of us, the other is a definitive path to a specific deity with no direct connection to a known, in other words reality.

One can be understood simply by connecting to each other having common bonds and experiences, the other is spelling out how things are and have come to be and who specifically should be worshipped as the savior of our souls. They are quite different IMO.

 

[leopold]

Well then you were wise beyond your years.

not really. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see wrapping paper, ribbons, bows, and name tags one day and then wrapped goodies the next to figure that one out.
the same with easter.
you never decorated eggs when you were young?

Which is different then claiming a religion has the answers.

shakespear can do just as good as the bible in the proverbial sense.

You are perfectly capable of deeming for yourself why we are here and what it's all about, just as I am. It is what we believe.

yeah, well i'm stuck way the hell out there on a limb on this one.

Which to Q's question why it's difficult to overcome religious indoctrination.

i've been so called "indoctrinated" since i was very young, forced to go to church twice a week and just sit there while some loud mouthed rabble rouser stood up there screaming his lungs out. hitler would've been proud.

 

[one_raven]

But to compare this: from Baron Max,

"The same could be said of things about non-religious indoctrination ...like social behavior, cultural traditions, cultural attire, special cultural or social events, ...., any number of such things. Laws and rules of society are also indoctrinated into society's youth. "

I would suggest that the two are not the same. One, is the connection between people with cultural changes that take place for better or worse over time, there is still the connection with reality, other people and earthly events, in other words what is going on here in front of us, the other is a definitive path to a specific deity with no direct connection to a known, in other words reality.

Most people who I have known are drawn to and remain in their religious persuasion due to social pressure, hegemonic influence and/or sense of community and belonging.
Not a whole lot different, really.

 

[Baron Max]

But to compare this: from Baron Max,

"The same could be said of things about non-religious indoctrination ...like social behavior, cultural traditions, cultural attire, special cultural or social events, ...., any number of such things. Laws and rules of society are also indoctrinated into society's youth."

I would suggest that the two are not the same.

No, they are definitely not the same. But the INDOCTRINATION is the same or very similar, which is what the topic is all about.

Baron Max

 

[(Q)]

I agree.

Baron was unable to provide any examples for that claim, could you provide examples of indoctrination that rival religious indoctrination, since you also agree?

 

[(Q)]

Which is why many people I know have shed their religious belief but still believe in a spirit and that we have souls.

It would appear they never really did shed their beliefs if they still believe.

The goal in my opinion to enlightenment is to knock down the walls that keep us from changing with the greater truths. Many people have yet to grow up, and cling to those ideas that provide comfort. Afterall, it's difficult to consider your non-existence.

It may be difficult, but providing fantasies to ease the comfort doesn't make much sense, either.

Most people have a hard time wrapping their mind around their inevitable lack of existence.

Because of that religion can be a very powerful and comforting drug.

True. How very unfortunate for that. It may be fine for people to pretend such things, but for them to push it onto society as a reality is a different story.

 

[SkinWalker]

Baron was unable to provide any examples for that claim, could you provide examples of indoctrination that rival religious indoctrination, since you also agree?

Political.

Racial.

Social class.

 

[Baron Max]

Baron was unable to provide any examples for that claim, could you provide examples of indoctrination that rival religious indoctrination, since you also agree?

Unable? No, unwilling ...because if you can't see such social indoctrinations all around you, in all facets of life, then there's just no talking to you about it!

Baron Max

 

[jpappl]

Baron,

I believe the OP was overcoming religious doctrination. But I agree there are other examples, politiics as Skinwalker pointed out is another tough one to have people change their view.

Q,

"It would appear they never really did shed their beliefs if they still believe."

They shed their beliefs in a particular religious viewpoint. They don't believe in the god that is presented as the only choice from the religion. They didn't go cold turkey though.

Since my parents were the ones to go away from their parents faith, I fortunately was not put through the process of indoctrination so can't speak directly of what those persons are going through.

"It may be difficult, but providing fantasies to ease the comfort doesn't make much sense, either. "

I agree.

"True. How very unfortunate for that. It may be fine for people to pretend such things, but for them to push it onto society as a reality is a different story"

This is where my real issue with religion is. It's not for me to tell people how to live, I just want the same in return. They are the first ones to say just let us be and then try to force their ideals onto the rest of us. In many ways through various mediums they have been successful in indocrinating society to be adverse to challenging them.

What you don't beleive in God ? Oh your one of those ! Think of the movies and television shows over the last 50 years and think of the news casts with the they prayed to god and it happened stories.

 

[(Q)]

Political.

Racial.

Social class.

Those are excellent. Would political be the indoctrination of children towards a specific political party or view?

I don't know if they'd rival religious indoctrination though?