Other cultures conducting human sacrifices...

Cosmictraveler said:

Perhaps Mr. Vick would want to attend.
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What? New charges are forthcoming?

Desi said:

Is it ethical to allow such things to go on if it is part of another culture?
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If it is time for humanity to finally straighten out its shite, great. There are only a couple of questions: what standard, and at what cost? I'm more worried about the idea of "what standard" than the cost, because, frankly, yeah, I think it's time.

To consider a few standards familiar to me:

• I've always rejected the "Christian" standard in part because it can't be easily defined (because of Christian diversity), but mostly because I reject the Pauline apostasy, which has become the dominant codified expression of Christendom in the United States.

• I dislike the "American" standard because it's psychotic.

• The "Idyll", in which everyone just gets along is too vague. At that point, the question of whose idyll is idyllic becomes just another point to fight over.​

But something needs to happen. I acknowledge that the United States, for instance, can't be the "world's policeman", but if we think about the monetary investment we've put into Iraq, we could have worked miracles in Liberia, Rwanda, Uganda, DRC, Sudan, &c. The human investment is a problem, of course: we cannot pretend that the African warlords will go quietly.

Osama bin Laden, of course, openly threatened the United States. Saddam Hussein was a bad guy, but the threat to the U.S. turned out to be, as many suspected, a wag. Bush was late sending troops to Liberia; we could have knocked down Taylor in a matter of seconds. In the meantime, imagine what we could do to Joseph Kony?

In that sense, though, war doesn't do much good. To secure the zone is one thing, but proper investment made in good faith must follow. Knocking off Kony would be, technically, a good thing for the world, but it isn't a complete solution.

In the meantime, the morass in Africa got to the point that the fighters in DRC were eating pygmies for magical protection against bullets. By the time a situation gets down to child soldiers and eating pygmies, the only real question left seems to be how the world should intervene.
 
The USA already conducts human sacrifices: a sacrificial war every generation to purge the nation's guilt over its unbridled consumerism. It also kills certain criminals with executions as a sacrifice for all the other violence in society; legal violence like sub-prime mortgages and predatory banking and insurance industries.
 
miners were sacrificed for profits over safety.
smokers are sacrificed for similar reasons, especially in countries where advertising aimed at children and new smoker's is not regulated.
any culture with a standing army demands human sacrifice.
we could make a huge list for every country.
no one has cause to be smug.
 
miners were sacrificed for profits over safety.

We don't know if a seismic shock or bump in the bowels of the mountain caused that cave in. You assume that safety was to blame but there hadn't been any problems there in many, many years. The men already know how dangerous their jobs are and they CHOSE to work in those mines.

smokers are sacrificed for similar reasons, especially in countries where advertising aimed at children and new smoker's is not regulated.


People who start smoking are not forced to do so and they can quit whenever they decide they want to. No one is forcing anyone to do anything against their will that I'm aware of.



any culture with a standing army demands human sacrifice.
we could make a huge list for every country.


Swwden and Norway have armies but have not fought. There are exceptions to every rule. Armies kill because they sometimes are protecting their homeland. In America today its Army is an all volunteer one which only means those that decide with their own free will to enter at great peril to life and limb.


no one has cause to be smug.

And not to many are.
 
cosmictraveler said:
We don't know if a seismic shock or bump in the bowels of the mountain caused that cave in. You assume that safety was to blame but there hadn't been any problems there in many, many years. The men already know how dangerous their jobs are and they CHOSE to work in those mines.
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Perhaps, in this specific case, it will turn out not to have been negligence on the owners part - according to rules and findings made by people heavily lobbied by the mining industry.



People who start smoking are not forced to do so and they can quit whenever they decide they want to. No one is forcing anyone to do anything against their will that I'm aware of.
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They are manipulated with intent by people who know that, for example, young people's minds are influencible, and that their product kills. And even if you think they have a choice, that does not take away moral responsibility. I cannot ask you over to my house and kill you even if I have informed you that that is the purpose of the visit. And we wouldn't want such a person as a neighbor.



any culture with a standing army demands human sacrifice.
we could make a huge list for every country.


Swwden and Norway have armies but have not fought. There are exceptions to every rule. Armies kill because they sometimes are protecting their homeland. In America today its Army is an all volunteer one which only means those that decide with their own free will to enter at great peril to life and limb.
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Nevertheless those countries have an essential contract with military personel that means that they may be called upon to sacrifice themselves. WHICH HAS IN FACT HAPPENED. At least with Swedish troops, despite the lack of wars.


no one has cause to be smug.

And not to many are.
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Yeah, no one looks at other cultures from the US and the Western nations in general and is not smug. Fault finding in others with applying similar rigorous self-scrutiny is the rule not the exception and I suspect it is the source of this thread so it is also relevent.
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Have you ever checked the safety records of other countries that also have mines? I haven't but would guess they have problems as well perhaps even more. Safety is a concern and many laws have been written to help miners to be safe. True, there are owners that don't follow those rules just as there are thousands of drivers who drive drunk or impaired without considering the lives they put at risk.
 
desi said:
Is it ethical to allow such things to go on if it is part of another culture?
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I'm content with this basic element of the libertarian philosophy: no person has the right to initiate violence against another. I also believe that this is the most fundamental tenet of civilization itself. People must never kill each other except in self-defense against a direct and lethal threat by another person who is violating the principle himself.

If people have to live their lives in fear of being killed by their fellow citizens, looking over their shoulders and dissipating their energy and attention into protecting themselves, the process of civilization will sputter to a halt.

Libertarians believe that people have the right to form their own communities and enact any additional rules they see fit: sexism, racism, religionism... intolerance of drugs, music, dogs... mandatory gardening, haircuts or purple hats. So long as members who don't like those rules are free to leave, of course. But no one has the right to repeal the rule against killing.

Any place where that rule has been suspended is, by definition, not part of civilization.

To allow human sacrifice to take place in some remote Mesolithic tribal region diminishes us all as much as allowing genocide in Darfur.
 
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