His death was a fast track to paradise, he died in the fight against the infidels, he is assured a place in eternal bliss. If he expected others to die for the cause, he too has shown he will die for the cause! A great sacrifice!
Osama Bin Laden is Dead
- Thread starter SciWriter
- Start date
I think your point is valid in principle, but in practice, Obama actually did visit Pakistan way back in the day (some of his birther opponents have used this fact in the past to accuse him of a hidden Muslim agenda). Just thought I'd mention it, since many people don't seem to know this.
LMAO. Yes, indeed. How about it Sammie?
If you kill an infidel he goes to hell. If you die you go to heaven: Typical theist BS, and typical of the twisting of religious texts to incite war. Do not forget the christians used to be equally adept at this. Not sure what christians' excuses are now though. I don't believe, so have only my own morality to guide me.
I said from the start that I believe the get Bin Laden raid was probably real. My problem is that probably real is not the same as real and people don't seem to agree with e that the difference between real and probably real matters.
The media, government and majority of th people act as if hearsay is evidence and as if distrust is insanity. In my opinion there is too much trust. Maybe trusting your spouse is good. For everybody but your spouse, love them but don't trust them. People, especially governments lie.
Now has Al Qaeda confirmed Bin Laden's death? I would like to know. Could you do me a favor and tell me how Al Qaeda confirmed Bin Laden's death and how we know real Al Qaeda from CIA Al Qaeda? Is there some official Al Qaeda website run by an official Al Qaeda spokes person? Don't Al Qaeda websites get shut down. Isn't Al Qaeda famous for having no structure.
So what certified Al Qaeda guy made the announcement?
I'd heard that before, but had thought the whole thing was a Birther invention. But according to snopes.com, he did actually visit Pakistan in the early 1980's, and the Birther stuff is some loony contention that one couldn't travel to Pakistan on a US passport at the time, and so that Obama must have some other passport. Which is baloney - one could perfectly well visit Pakistan on a US passport at the time.
I thought Obama was born in and grew up in a terrorist training camp in Pakistan.
I'm not seeing it. You say it's "probably real," and then seem to infer that anyone who accepts it as a reasonable presumption is blindly accepting government statements as revealed truth. I'm not seeing any actual support for the contention that government information is being accepted uncritically - US media has been bursting with material digging into the various accounts, their sources, conflicts between them, etc. all week.
Looks like a big strawman to me. Issue seems to be certain people who are committed to strong, pre-existing agendas projecting them onto the US at large, and anyone identified as American here.
And governments, like people, stand to lose out in certain ways if they are seen to be lying. So when they offer a strong assertion that could be readily undermined if it were false, one can infer a certain confidence in the veracity of the statements - without assuming that said government is inherently honest, or anything other than strongly self-interested. That's not blind faith - it's critical assessment.
Yes to both - their websites strategically move around and shift content to cope with efforts to shut them down.
No. They're famous for not having a directly hierarchical, centralized structure (which would be highly vulnerable to the killing or capture of a few key players), and instead exhibiting a network/franchise structure.
"Certified" by who?
The whole point of a conspiratorial network is that none of that stuff is visible to the public.
oke: How many times do I have to tell you I will not just roll over and believe the state/corporate media. I don't know how many times I have to repeat the reasons for that. Haven't you yourself even stated you don't ever read any of my posts or the links I include? I did say, that I will accept the, "My daddy told me so," excuse however. If that's the reason you think this paradigm of the official version of history should be accepted, I'll not disagree.Go through and explain to me what is wrong with the facts and sources in all the links in Paul Joseph Watson's Article rather than just repeating what the AP and Reuters has told you via the U.S. military-industrial-complex and the net of international bankers and Zionists, and I shall ignore this thread hence forth. Please, I come to this site for a fresh perspective and an education, I look forward to it. I am very curious and love new and useful information.
US Government Contractor Claims “Al-Qaeda” Has Confirmed Bin Laden Fairytale
The US has been supporting with ony factions against other factions in many nations and has been sine before my grand parents were born. This is what I call knee jerk interventionalism.
Does the US have military bases in 120 nations?
What do you know about what the US is doing or has done? How many terrorist groups does the US fund in Iran? What do you know about the militia that invaded Haiti and created he pretext for the US military to overthrow Haitian democracy? What do you about US funding for the Venezuelan opposition?
What do you know about USAID, "International Republican Institute", and the "National Democratic Institute" funding political factions against other politicl factions in various nations?
What do you know about the role of US funding in creating the Tutsi Army in Uganda that played a major role in the events that led to the deaths of 4 to 7 million people?
Now compare to the average American you are a foreign policy expert so if you don't know what the the US government gets into then effectively US foreign policy is secret.
What's "kneejerk" about any of that?
Are you just including that term for effect, or what?
Probably more than you do, actually.
And still not seeing any "kneejerks" listed there.
That people might not care about this stuff, does not render it secret. The information is easy to get - through mainstream and official channels, so...
What price was paid for the Gulf of Tonkin fake event? I hear italy admitted that Red Brigade bombings were done by the government to make the left unpopular. They got away wit it.
People forgive their side for lying. By the time the lie is revealed it is fact in peoples minds.
It is said the Soviet people knew they were being lied to and believed the lies anyway.
Limbaugh lies but says he can't be held to certain standards because he is an entertainer. Getting caught lying won't hurt somebody if their audience likes the lies. If the audience likes the lies they can always convince themselves that the caught liar never got caught.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Go through and explain to me what is wrong with the facts and sources in all the links in Paul Joseph Watson's Article rather than just repeating what the AP and Reuters has told you via the U.S. military-industrial-complex and the net of international bankers and Zionists, and I shall ignore this thread hence forth. Please, I come to this site for a fresh perspective and an education, I look forward to it. I am very curious and love new and useful information.
US Government Contractor Claims “Al-Qaeda” Has Confirmed Bin Laden Fairytale
No I never said that. I said I realize you choose to believe almost anything as long as its wide of the reasonable and comes from any unknown source which doesn't bode well for you:crazy:
Why do you accept these unknown sources as 'facts' and 'sources'? Who runs 'truth is contagious'? Is it that you think the entire international press would ignore something they could be verify? Don't answer that because I know the answer which is why I don't pay much mind to your conclusions. You don't know what news or journalism really is so you accept wild rumor as fact and wild supposition as 'evidence'.
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And that's a very different issue than "secrecy," no?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Okay so you don't believe anything either historical or current as long as you were not there when it happened right? What do you rely on for information? You cannot possibly go so far as to read any history book written by anyone because it could be corrupted or slanted and therefore you cannot verify it as truth. Or is it that you only trust what corroborates your present world view and dismiss the rest? I suppose you would go so far as to say that journalists like Robert Fisk who has interviewed Bin Laden three times and is a renowned mid-east journalist is simply a fool for believing Bin Laden is dead or Al Qaeda a terrorist group that can be verified. I suppose the British should have second guess every communication that came in from the IRA? I mean how do they know it was the IRA who called in? Oh yeah! I forgot, there are codes they call which were worked out in advance so British intelligence would know the difference between the group and a copy cat. Why would Al Qaeda have the same system in place with the US and Pakistani government? Because they cannot afford for any other group to take credit or to water down their own organization. Its common actually among groups and their State targets but you or your sources don't seem to know this, I guess its too simple and would make waaay too much sense than a convoluted argument you cannot possibly know to be true. Conspiracy theories never show evidence they only widen doubt, sometimes to the point that you become a paranoid where nothing is verifiable...then the next thing you know the government is tapping your phone and planting things under your skin. Enjoy the trip to the psych unit. I mean its only you right, only you know what is true and scholars, journalists and governments are only lying or in cahoots or what-have-you. Have you come around like Esotericist as yet to blaming it all on the 'zionists' and 'international bankers'? If so it sounds about right. Has it all been written about it in the Elders of Zion? Something I am sure you would swear from earth to high heaven cannot possibly be a fake since it is widely believed by legitimate scholars to be a fake. All this is typical really. Your 'probably true' is not what you have been running around proclaiming all along. Its convenient isn't it?
Maybe the Japanese tsunami was a cover-up, maybe it was an experiment gone wrong at sea! You know the military experiment opening up the Bermuda Triangle which really is a worm hole to different place through time travel like Dr. Who's telephone booth, they know how to do it already just ask Esotericist, its all the knowledge they've garnered from ET's who've been part of the shadow government for 50 years. I mean just look at the footage of the whirlpool sucking up the boat its just so obvious!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709856
How anyone cannot see this is the source of the tsunami is just another example of the sheeples willing to believe anything that comes out of the government zionist inspired corporate mass hypnosis tube!
*sigh*:runaway:
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I am of the opinion bases in 120 nations does not serve the US people and that intervening in other nations internal politics in ways that would freak Americans out if some other nation did it to us rarely benefits the American people.
I don't believe that helping American headquartered multinational corporations with their foreign problems is usually cost effective for the American people.
9-11 did not happen because "they hate our freedom". When Bush alleged that 9-11 happened because they hate our freedom he was trying to hide what they most hate about us which is the foreign policy that most Americans don't even understand that we have. Now you are not supposed to give terrorists the attention they seek or the school yard bully your lunch money because doing so would encourage more of the bad behavior but having Americans not understand why they were attacked also feels wrong to me.
Obama just continued this when he said something began when we wee attacked on 9-11. Nothing began on 9-11. 9-11 was a part of US interaction in the Arab world from at least 1967 onwards.
While Arabs had problems with England and France since the end of WW 1 and had problems with US support for Israel in the 1940s, I think Arab - US relations were OK in the 1950s.
Fisk is one of my favorites. I often go check on what Fisk is saying when I want to try to figure out what is really going on.
Fisk's last interview with Bin Laden was in 2000.
Fisk is not without his critics. He is not pro-American or pro-Israeli or even pro UK government and refuses to bias his writing in their favor which means that many consider him unforgivably biased against Israel/USA.
There was some story allegedly documenting that Fisk makes stuff up. The story had the smell of truth which disappointed me because I like Fisk and to a degree rely on his opinions.
We will never know the truth. We can never know who to believe. We can recognize inconsistencies. We can see who has a better track record at predicting future consensus beliefs.
Right lovely.
At least your capable of critical thought but the idea that consensus opinion could be completely wrong seems to get an emotional reaction from you. Is the middle opinion, respectable opinion really so precious?
So who is this Al Qaeda source everybody is quoting? What nobody bothered to document the authenticity? And to question the authenticity of an unnamed source means I am insane?
Consensus people can call the fringes insane for believing unnamed sources and then consensus people can call the fringes insane for not believing unnamed sources that consensus believes in because the consensus shapers presented the unnamed sources information as fact. What BS, I say the emperor has no clothes on.
I really really hate this but SITE is one of those fake websites fronted by the US
http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/us-government-contractor
Rita Katz has been known to get Osama tapes before "Al Qaeda" posted them [cough cough] and has been caught fabricating evidence:
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Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Well Sam I think you should contact Al Jazeera and let them know they have been duped and should go to the above blog and 'sourcewatch' because they OBVIOUSLY must be 'in the know'. :facepalm:
Send a memo to Robert Fisk also because he should know that the three interviews he had with Bin Laden and the violence he ascribes to Al Qaeda not to mention his belief Bin Laden is dead is a great great mistake. Lesser journalists from dark rooms obviously have more access. Yes my dear only you and your merry band of fringe media know what's what