Osama Bin Laden is Dead

I read only off and on at American Thinker, but the quality of analysis - though from the right - seems superior to what I have read in other American right wing news sources

http://www.americanthinker.com/



For the conservative POV: http://www.economist.com/

For a more expansive world view and analysis: http://www.ft.com/home/uk

For sensible financial information : http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ :)

Thanks for the links. The economist is the the only one of those sources that I am familiar with. I agree about the Economist. Even though I often can see why they are wrong at least they are intelligent and make an honest effort to defend their positions intellectually. They make me think and that is what I want.
 
In that case I highly recommend the US edition of the FT. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the content. It is expensive but even the weekend edition is worth it.

Here is the op-ed by David Pilling on Osama

Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights or use this link to reference the article - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/583d1c2a-7680-11e0-b05b-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1LTMy9nur

Now for the price of chasing Afghan shadows

By David Pilling

Published: May 4 2011 22:52 | Last updated: May 4 2011 22:52

There is something strange about an assassination without a corpse. As with Eva Peron, the first lady of Argentina whose body mysteriously vanished for 16 years, the absence of a cadaver is unsettling. Save for Barack Obama’s word, there is little concrete evidence that Osama bin Laden is actually dead. Before long, the US president will be obliged to produce the photos – inflammatory or not – of the slain al-Qaeda leader.

Of course, few can seriously doubt that bin Laden has been killed, nor that the world is better for it. Few can deny either the psychological boost to America of bringing its most hated adversary to bloody account. But the danger is that the outcomes of the deed will prove as hollow as an assassination without a corpse. Mr Obama’s victory may turn out to be Pyrrhic.

This is partly because the world has moved on since the time when bin Laden was judged the world’s most dangerous man. By all accounts, for the past five years he has been holed up in the leafy environs of Abbottabad, without phone or e-mail. Rather than an organiser of terror, he has become an idea of terror. His cancerous thought has metastasised throughout Pakistan, to Yemen, Somalia and elsewhere. An idea, naturally, is harder to kill than a person.

Much of the Arab world has moved on too. The rebellion across north Africa and the Middle East has little to do with bin Laden’s Manichean vision of an Islamic state. Protesters from Egypt to Libya have drunk the intoxicating ideas of western democracy.

Killing bin Laden, then, has brought home the fact of his diminished force. More damaging still, it has exposed the deep flaws in America’s shadow-chasing campaigns in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

The month after the 9/11 attacks, the US invaded Afghanistan. The reason was straightforward. Afghanistan’s Taliban government was harbouring bin Laden and refusing to give him up. For many Americans, al-Qaeda and the Taliban have fused into one. But the Afghan Taliban’s goals have always been more modest than those of al-Qaeda. The Taliban wants to rid Afghanistan of foreigners and run the country itself. When the US invasion force toppled the Taliban and sent most of al-Qaeda’s warriors fleeing into Pakistan, it was left fighting a different Afghan mission – nation building.

The discovery of bin Laden in Pakistan exposes US mission creep in a blinding flash. With the al-Qaeda leader dead and the July deadline for the start of troop drawdown approaching, it has become easier for domestic critics of the Afghan war to urge a complete withdrawal. Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat, told CNN this week that the US “can’t use physical force to reform every bad government”. Nor he added, referring to the futility of chasing terrorists from safe haven to safe haven, could it “plug every rat hole in the world”.

The killing of bin Laden sheds an even worse light on Washington’s alliance with Islamabad. Whatever Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence was up to, it does not look good. Either it failed to spot the world’s most wanted man right under its nose – and with $18bn in American aid, you’d have thought it could have afforded a ladder to peek over bin Laden’s wall. Alternatively, it has been deliberately shielding him from discovery. Leon Panetta, CIA director, said the Pakistanis were not informed of Sunday’s mission because they might have tipped bin Laden off. It is hard to imagine a more damning verdict.

In a blistering editorial, Brahma Chellaney, an Indian defence expert and no friend of Pakistan, wrote: “The scourge of Pakistani terrorism emanates more from the country’s Scotch whisky-sipping generals than from the bead-rubbing mullahs.” His views might be dismissed as those of an Indian enemy were they not so closely echoed by Pakistan’s American friends. Several US Congressmen have demanded that Washington cease all aid to Islamabad. “Before we send another dime, we need to know whether Pakistan truly stands with us in the fight against terrorism,” said Frank Lautenberg, a Democratic senator from New Jersey.

Yet Washington cannot abandon Pakistan. Mr Obama showed that by praising Islamabad for its co-operation in hunting down bin Laden, in spite of evidence that its role was, at best, minimal. Nuclear-armed Pakistan is too volatile and too much a breeding ground of militancy for the US simply to ditch it. The US and Pakistan are stuck together in their uncomfortable bed.

The third point exposed by bin Laden’s death is just how much it has cost to run him to ground. US television networks have put the figure, including wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, at above $2,000bn. That is the essence of the “imperial overstretch” Paul Kennedy, a Yale historian, describes in his The Rise and Fall of Great Powers. He writes of the Habsburg monarchs: “They steadily over-extended themselves in the course of repeated conflicts and became militarily top-heavy for their weakening economic base.”

While the US has been chasing bin Laden all over the Middle East and running up unsustainable deficits, China has pursued its juggernaut rise. Last year, it became the world’s second-largest economy and replaced the US as the biggest manufacturer. Washington has got its man. But it may have lost its way.

david.pilling@ft.com

More columns at www.ft.com/davidpilling
 
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Oh I understand my point but you've given me no illustration that you do, nor have you given any highlights about what you feel was not understood from your point of view. So...:shrug:

Explain yourself.

eerr well the thign is its like this....

err can you give me a clue?!?
 
Would that excuse work for Iraq or Afghanistan or any place where American money and weapons has led to thousands of bodies?

Would you accept kill teams that targeted American political targets and took their wives and kids into secret custody?

I assume you mean domestic political targets? If those targets were actively murdering people, yes.

Bin Ladin was a mass murderer, nothing more, nothing less. And you certianly can not equate the Dalai Lama to Bin Ladin as you have done.
 
Coincidentally the NATO troops tried to take out Gadaffi but killed his son and a few others instead last weekend when Bin Laden was being killed as well. Seems to be assassinations going on anywhere the military sees fit to take that kind of action. How far is this kind of action going to continue against someone who any military doesn't like for some reasons or other. The rebels trying to take control in Libya are the same people that were trying to kill American troops in Iraq just a few years ago and are tied closely with the Islamic Brotherhood as well.
 
Remember the Taliban was asked to give up Osama and refused. The actions against Afghanistan was a direct outcome to their support of terrorist groups.

Not true.
Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over

I guess it wouldn't have fit into their plans for taking over Afghanistan's banking system and their overall "war on terror." Not only that, they would have had no war on terror and when it comes right down to it, they had no hard evidence, right?
 
BBC on Public Radio is in the fluff category for me. The BBC radio was as guilty of cheerleading for war and spreading disinformation as the rest of the media was. The less fluffy side of the BBC is to often misinformed or dishonest and the BBC radio in the USA mixes that with fluffy stories. I have no use for the BBC radio in the USA.

Even CSPAN false mostly into the the useless category for me because while not fluffy the speeches that congress folks give to their viewers while pretending to be talking to each other have almost no informational value. Some of the hearings on CSPAN have informational value and Book TV also can be informational but over all CSPAN is not intellectual material.


60 minutes will provide a little depth once and a while. Current TV's Vanguard show occasionally sheds light on something. I am disappointed that there is not more like Democracy Now or better yet more analytical and more in depth than Democracy now. I would like the political right to have something of the same quality of Democracy now. I would like more science on radio or tv at about the intellectual level that Democracy Now does politics and policy. Science could easily get to advanced and lose me but I don't have to worry about that on TV or radio.

Boomberg and CNBC are both far more devoid of real in depth information than I would have expected from financial networks. Bob Brinker on radio is better but I want something still yet better. I would like an economics show at about the level of Democracy now or better yet a few steps deeper than Democracy Now.

The history channel is retarded and biased.

The Dog Whisperer is brilliant but I wanted something else.

If it comes from AP or Reuters, it's useless.
 
How is celebrating murder not barbaric? :m:

You don't think they'd be celebrating just as much if he were captured alive? If you're going to call people barbaric for celebrating murder, you must think the middle east is chock full of barbarians from top to bottom. How dare Iran celebrate its Islamic revolution when so many have died and continue to die as a result? :m:
 
Complete corruption? Show evidence. How do you know this if its not reported by the media?

What about JFK?

How do you know voters don't pay attention to history? Have you done a poll? I love Mark Twain and believe he would believe Bin Laden is dead because of a US SEAL invasion. Can you prove otherwise?

Emphatically. . . YES!

"It has become a sarcastic proverb that a thing must be true if you saw it in a newspaper. That is the opinion intelligent people have of that lying vehicle in a nutshell. But the trouble is that the stupid people -- who constitute the grand overwhelming majority of this and all other nations -- do believe and are moulded and convinced by what they get out of a newspaper, and there is where the harm lies."
- Mark Twain, "License of the Press," speech, 31 March 1873
 
Complete corruption? Show evidence. How do you know this if its not reported by the media? What about JFK? ...
Well two insurance companies paid off on their policies, so I think we can safely conclude JFK is dead.

Of course, he may have just been tried of all the responsibilities, hassel, etc. and staged that day in Dallas. Yes - that's probably it. - I bet he soaking up the sun in Rio right now as I type.

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There is some hope for return of posting sanity:

The OP was made on 5/2/11 at 12:50AM (as shown on my Brazilian computer). Post 1072 was made on 5/5/11 at 12:19AM almost exactly 3 days later. Thus the posting rate has dropped to:

1072/(3x24) = 14.8888 post per hour or slightly less than one every four minutes.
During the first 24 hours it was more than one post every three minutes!
 
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There is a significant chance that the real Zarqawi was dead before any of us in the USA ever heard of him and that the US government was aware of that and used the fake Zarqawi stories as a psyops tool....
That's absurd, you are willing to take this sort of conspiracy theory on faith because it makes you feel like you have special knowledge.

nirakar said:
Hitchens's talent is his style not his substance. My impression of Hitchens is that whether on the left 30 years ago or whatever he was 7 years ago or whatever he is now Hitchens's has had incorrect facts and incorrect analysis.
Feel free to demonstrate this. I think he just brings up facts that don't fit with your worldview.

War on Pakistan?


You're amusing.

Your single-minded determination is rather cute. What are you doing later?:shy:
Critical thinking is taking an extended siesta at Spidergoat's house. Playing second fiddle in the Spidergoat Symphony Orchestra.
Again, you think you are being critical by rejecting every official explanation whatever it is. That's just being contrary. I think Pakistan is a huge problem, they should not feel safe in their sovereignty. If they harbored Bin Laden, their days are numbered.

How is celebrating murder not barbaric? :m:
When you celebrate the death of a mass murderer.

Not true.
Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over

I guess it wouldn't have fit into their plans for taking over Afghanistan's banking system and their overall "war on terror." Not only that, they would have had no war on terror and when it comes right down to it, they had no hard evidence, right?

How do you know that wasn't just a ruse to allow him to escape? I don't trust the Taliban and neither should you.
 
Ok. If not OBL then whom or what organization? What's your take on WTC?
You must have missed my breakdown of the comparisons between our entry into WWII and the WTC event. Just add another "I" to the "II".
As I said before "If something works, you don't fix it". Do some history research into Roosevelt's provocation of the Japanese before Pearl...
That's where we're at again.
 
I wish he was captured alive, it would have been awesome seeing him in handcuffs being brought to trial after all these years. This type of ending is just ....meh.
 
The above picture cosmic posted is a fake.

OK, if it is can you prove it?

I think that by releasing this photo would show everyone that nothing happened when any photo of him dead was shown. That way IF this is the fake as you think, then why not post the real one, it can't be any worse can it?
 
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I wish he was captured alive, it would have been awesome seeing him in handcuffs being brought to trial after all these years. This type of ending is just ....meh.
How many times do you need to be told? There is no evidence.
They wouldn't produce it then, what makes you think they have some now?
 
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