Osama Bin Laden is Dead

Mrs.Lucysnow said:
Actually Sam I would have thought you would have been pleased. Now that he's dead there is less of an excuse to keep U.S troops in Afghanistan.
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Why?

Bush Tells Barnes Capturing Bin Laden Is ‘Not A Top Priority Use of American Resources’

Tiassa said:
Okay, look, it's one thing to doubt the official story, or any of the versions of an official story floating around. That part doesn't bother me. But the assertion on record for our consumption and judgment is that "bin Laden was offered the chance to surrender. But the leader, who had always said he would not be captured alive, refused and was blasted in the head by troops."

Now, maybe that means he went down screaming, "You'll never take me alive, coppers!" and blasting a hail of gunfire at the approaching enemy.

Or it could mean something much more cinematic and calm:

(Soldiers burst into the room, killing the last protection detail immediately around Osama bin Laden.)

SOLDIER: (cautiously, from behind aimed weapon) It's over, you know.

BIN LADEN: (calmly, even weak with fatigue) It is the will of Allah.

SOLDIER: So how are we going to do this?

BIN LADEN: We both know what must happen.

SOLDIER: (aims carefully) So that's it, then?

BIN LADEN: It is the will of Allah. There is no God save Allah, and Muhammad is his Prophet.

(Cut to exterior shot. A single flash, seen through a broken window, and the sound of a gunshot. Crane shot lifts away from building, pans to show wide shot of city. Fade to black.)​

Or, of course, it could be the evil and cruel fantasy that has Osama bin Laden on his knees, blubbering and begging for his life, but the evil, heartless Americans are not moved to compassion for the misunderstood, falsely accused man who was always treated poorly, even by his family and peers, for his awkward height and unconventional ideas, and who never hurt any innocent people anywhere, ever, and so the invader pigs just shot him to death for sport.

In truth, though, as cynical as I can be about my nation's political and military adventures, and as much as I might mock its notion of what constitutes justice these days, I'm pretty confident that last isn't the case. Even at our worst, we tend to be a bit more subtle.

I would not be surprised to learn that when it came down to it, bin Laden refused to surrender and so they shot him when they probably could have hauled his ass in alive, but of all our wars, S.A.M., this one is our right, and anything short of surrender—and I sincerely doubt Osama bin Laden would surrender—leads toward an outcome describing his corpse.

I get it, though, S.A.M. I'm not going to knock your skepticism. But I would also ask how you could possibly think this was going to end any other way?

I mean, sure, maybe bin Laden should have lawyered up and called in to negotiate his surrender. But he didn't. And he wouldn't. He's had over nine years to sit down and talk about this.

(I would also know that of anyone who could tell us if OBL himself was shooting, I don't expect a bureaucrat like the Deputy National Security Advisor to cough that up in a press conference.)
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So you have Bin Laden running around with his dialysis unit, hiding behind a wife and a protection detail [and presumably some toddlers] and American soldiers kill him because he won't surrender? Why didn't they just say, okay dude, we'll just wait out here until you do?

What happened to the wife? Was she also killed?
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
Along with innocent women and children.... like.. it's ok they are only sand people right. it's not killing its collateral damage.

How do you look in the mirror and accept the putrid scrap of flesh that stares back at you without popping a cyanide pill.
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What children? There were no children in the compound. His son is grown.
 
We've probably done more accounting today for the collateral damages of this "tragic incident", than Al Qaeda's supporters have done for 9/11's civilian casualties over the last 10 years.
 
Another trick question?

S.A.M. said:

So you have Bin Laden running around with his dialysis unit, hiding behind a wife and a protection detail [and presumably some toddlers] and American soldiers kill him because he won't surrender? Why didn't they just say, okay dude, we'll just wait out here until you do?
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Really? You're really asking that question?

Let me just check again, here: Really?
 
S.A.M. said:
Why?
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Because I would have thought that even though you don't like it, even if you have doubts as to Bin Laden's 9/11 involvement that you may have thought it was a small price to pay to see U.S troops out of Afghanistan. At least the US will have less of a reason to continue to fight the Taliban. I posted this from Al Jazeera earlier but the opinion states:

So what will this mean for the US war in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Certainly Washington has less reason or justification to wage a war in Afghanistan now that bin Laden is no more. It might also find more readiness among certain Taliban leaders in the absence of the thorniest issue of al-Qaeda, to make a deal that insures a power sharing arrangement in favour of the Taliban in return for curbing the use of Afghanistan by al-Qaeda to export "terrorism".

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/20115282016417366.html

It also states that "It is also worth recalling that bin Laden's al-Qaeda and its affiliates have killed far more Arabs and Muslims than they did Westerners."

Something you fail to point out when you call U.S soldiers 'hitmen' or accuse them of killing innocence.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
War that you have observed from the safety of your armchair and sofa, the reality of war for a little princess is that she knows nothing of war or conflict.
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My opinion on this is not substantially different from my friends and family who did serve, who do know war.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
Along with innocent women and children.... like.. it's ok they are only sand people right. it's not killing its collateral damage.

How do you look in the mirror and accept the putrid scrap of flesh that stares back at you without popping a cyanide pill.
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He would have killed thousands more of us without hesitation, so yes. It's unfortunate that anyone but he had to die, but that is the reality of the situation. We don't have the luxury of sending in a few cops with search warrants.
 
S.A.M. said:
So you have Bin Laden running around with his dialysis unit, hiding behind a wife and a protection detail [and presumably some toddlers] and American soldiers kill him because he won't surrender? Why didn't they just say, okay dude, we'll just wait out here until you do?
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Firstly, as far as I've heard, we don't know for certain that he was running around carrying a dialysis unit when this happened. He could have been rushing out from the toilet, half-wiped and ready for combat on a moment's notice.

Secondly, US soldiers could indeed have waited outside the compound. And they would have had to have planes in the air smoking everything on wheels in the vicinity, lest terrorist reinforcements should flood the area. Never seen air raid vids from an AC-130 before? From a civilian casualty POV, the quick in-out was by far the best option.
 
Tiassa said:
Really? You're really asking that question?

Let me just check again, here: Really?
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Umm sorry seems kinda obvious to me, old guy with failed kidneys inside a compound vs armed troops outside it. Whats the challenge?

Mrs.Lucysnow said:
Because I would have thought that even though you don't like it, even if you have doubts as to Bin Laden's 9/11 involvement that you may have thought it was a small price to pay to see U.S troops out of Afghanistan. At least the US will have less of a reason to continue to fight the Taliban. I posted this from Al Jazeera earlier but the opinion states:

So what will this mean for the US war in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Certainly Washington has less reason or justification to wage a war in Afghanistan now that bin Laden is no more. It might also find more readiness among certain Taliban leaders in the absence of the thorniest issue of al-Qaeda, to make a deal that insures a power sharing arrangement in favour of the Taliban in return for curbing the use of Afghanistan by al-Qaeda to export "terrorism".

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/20115282016417366.html

It also states that "It is also worth recalling that bin Laden's al-Qaeda and its affiliates have killed far more Arabs and Muslims than they did Westerners."

Something you fail to point out when you call U.S soldiers 'hitmen' or accuse them of killing innocence.
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Well I'm not impressed with the al Qaeda bunny much so the al Jazeera piece is wasted on me. And even if the US leaves Afghanistan now, well so what? Its 10 years too late to make any difference there.

And if they have to play out this elaborate farce to "save face" so that they can crawl back home after destroying the lives of so many people, millions of them - well what do they want? An award? Maybe Americans should train under Indian cops and secret service so they don't need to wage 10 year global wars to [fail to] catch ONE MAN.
 
adoucette said:
Nobody was innocent in that compound.
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Depends who is judge and jury, the american soldiers are not innocent in my court of law. This is a mistake americans make they think they get to police the world and say what goes and what doesn't go.
You don't get to pay judge dread and fly round the world executing everyone you don't agree with.

Keep it up and you guys will have World war 3 to deal with and we will all be blown to bits.
 
While I *DO* agree with a lot of what's been said here, here's something additional to consider: From the reports I read, it was actually a "kill" order - and NOT a "bring back alive" operation at all.

And I suspect there was a good reason for that. If he HAD been brought back and put on trial, I'd bet there would have been *numerous* terrorist attempts on American lives abroad as well as at home. Because putting him on public display like that would have been FAR more humiliating to his followers than just his death. And you can be certain that they would have claimed any such trial was for that purpose ONLY - humiliation - and that every bit of the proceedings consisted of false claims against him. They (his followers) would never, EVER see such a trial as being honest - regardless of the evidence produced, including his own words - because they've been brainwashed through his claims that America (and the entire Western world) are evil.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
War that you have observed from the safety of your armchair and sofa, the reality of war for a little princess is that she knows nothing of war or conflict.
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Its really uncomfortable in that armchair when your sons, daughter, husband or wife is serving in Afghanistan. An entire generation involved in a 10 year war with youth coming back dead or injured and freaked out. Please don't tell Americans we don't know anything about war when its U.S troops stomping around in your back yard. You cannot accuse Americans of being war-like and then flip and say they don't know anything about war.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
Depends who is judge and jury, the american soldiers are not innocent in my court of law. This is a mistake americans make they think they get to police the world and say what goes and what doesn't go.
You don't get to pay judge dread and fly round the world executing everyone you don't agree with.

Keep it up and you guys will have World war 3 to deal with and we will all be blown to bits.
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(Yeah, nothing but the usual EFC bunch of half-thought-out garbage.):D
 
Mickmeister said:
Why?
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They would prob. mistreat and torture him.

The Americans have a very poor record of treating prisoners fairly.

And the whole nation in general are just obsessed with the guy. I've never seen anything like it to be honest. Normal, every-day, average Joes talking about how he is rotting in hell, how they want him dragged across the streets of NY, how the victims of 9/11 are in heaven happy that God has thrown Bin Laden to the deepest depths of hell, to talking about him getting shot in the head.

It is all very extreme. I've never heard people talk like that before tbh.

Al-Qaeda have killed more Muslims in Muslim lands. There have been countless attacks in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. thousands upon thousands have been killed, maimed etc.

But to Americans, they are the only victims.
 
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