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Organized religion, con artists
- Thread starter GodLied
- Start date
LucidDreamer
Registered Senior Member
Religion evolved in primitive societies to establish and enforce law and explain the mysteries of the universe in a world where science didn’t exist. In that sense, religion served an extremely valuable service because it fostered the establishment of civilization. It is civilization, with its laws and structure, which has allowed us to develop science and now question the validity of religion.
Originally posted by Jenyar
How did the justice system develop then? To enforce and establish God's will and explain the mysteries of crime and a world where religion isn't enough?
Jenyar, borrowing morals and ethics from religion is not organized religion. Noone worship the head of the states or the judges, yet you see a bunch of chrisitian worshiping every saint that ever lived, they worship their tombs. Muslims do the same thing and ask for mediations from religious leaders that died long ago. People somehow tend to wanting to cling to anything that proclaim to show them the way to god, they cling to the way of others and forget about their unique path to god.
Originally posted by LucidDreamer
Religion evolved in primitive societies to establish and enforce law and explain the mysteries of the universe in a world where science didn’t exist. In that sense, religion served an extremely valuable service because it fostered the establishment of civilization. It is civilization, with its laws and structure, which has allowed us to develop science and now question the validity of religion.
If religion evolved in primitive societies; Baptists, Methodists, and Mormons had their founders in direct mental link to primitive man: Baptists started their religion on the East Coast, Methodists started their religion out of a dorm room, Mormons started their religion when a guy wanted multiple wives.
Scientology evolved as a direct result of a bet that the creator of Scientology could not start a religion. No premonitions, visions, or spiritual wonderment befalled the creator of Scientology. He manufactured a religion on a bet.
Before you make a general claim about religion, become aware of at least the current religions. I cannot hold obsolete religions against you; but, current religions should be known before making a general statement about all religions.
Furthermore, the man that translated the bible for the masses was assassinated for doing so. The people holding scientific views such as round Earth, Earth orbits Sun were treated horribly by the Church, to say the least. Midwives' successful business came to a screeching halt when Doctors convinced the Church that midwives were witches so that society would assassinate innocent working women adept at their trade.
When your viewpoint is refined, resubmit it.
GodLied.
LucidDreamer
Registered Senior Member
GodLied,
First of all, I happen to be an Atheist so I am not going to defend the current state of religion.
Second of all, you are the one who made the general claim about religion so I responded with a general observation. My veiwpoint stands.
First of all, I happen to be an Atheist so I am not going to defend the current state of religion.
Second of all, you are the one who made the general claim about religion so I responded with a general observation. My veiwpoint stands.
Taste before rejecting
GodLied.
PS: My bookshelf once included Holy Bible, Book of Mormon, views of Jehova Witnesses, Wicca, Nercromnicon, Occult, ...... Awareness of a variety of views helps one form opinions on those views through comparison and contrast, action and reaction. For example, two people can test their beliefs by comparing results from the one who prays to the one who casts a spell. As long as one wins consistently for 100 trials, the winner might be right.
To not believe in a theology, one should be familiar with that theology. Your stance of not knowing religion yet not believing in it is similar to a child not wanting to eat a new food without ever tasting it. Taste religion before rejecting it.Originally posted by LucidDreamer
GodLied,
First of all, I happen to be an Atheist so I am not going to defend the current state of religion.
Second of all, you are the one who made the general claim about religion so I responded with a general observation. My veiwpoint stands.
GodLied.
PS: My bookshelf once included Holy Bible, Book of Mormon, views of Jehova Witnesses, Wicca, Nercromnicon, Occult, ...... Awareness of a variety of views helps one form opinions on those views through comparison and contrast, action and reaction. For example, two people can test their beliefs by comparing results from the one who prays to the one who casts a spell. As long as one wins consistently for 100 trials, the winner might be right.
LucidDreamer
Registered Senior Member
How can you conclude that my general statement is evidence of my lack of familiarity with Christian theology? My initial statement dealt with the foundations of pre-Christian religion and why primitive people adopted it.
The same innate inquisitiveness in early humans that led to the establishment of creation myths, i.e. religion, also led them to eventually question those myths.
The same innate inquisitiveness in early humans that led to the establishment of creation myths, i.e. religion, also led them to eventually question those myths.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
And all of them were pathetic attempts by men living uncomfortably in the Age of Enlightenment to find a way back to the early Christian era when they were undisputed lords and masters of their whole world.Originally posted by GodLied
Baptists started their religion on the East Coast, Methodists started their religion out of a dorm room, Mormons started their religion when a guy wanted multiple wives.
The men who founded the Baptist church were no better than the Lutherans and Catholics before them: they wanted to keep women barefoot and pregnant. Methodism was started by college boys who were afraid of growing up and having to earn the love of a good woman instead of having it handed to them. The motivation of the men who established the LDS church is self-evident. The Abrahamic religions are and always have been conspiracies by men to retain power, in an era when women no longer had to stay in the caves nursing babies while they went off to kill mastodons.
It's really a stretch to call Scientology a religion. The supernatural part of it was lifted directly from the material that L. Ron Hubbard put into his science fiction novels. It was injected into the scientologist philosophy for one reason: in order for it to qualify as a religion under the laws of the U.S. and enjoy the freedom from taxation and all the other privileges that churches get. You never hear Scientologists evangelizing their version of prehistory.Scientology evolved as a direct result of a bet that the creator of Scientology could not start a religion. No premonitions, visions, or spiritual wonderment befell the creator of Scientology. He manufactured a religion on a bet.
Originally posted by LucidDreamer
How can you conclude that my general statement is evidence of my lack of familiarity with Christian theology? My initial statement dealt with the foundations of pre-Christian religion and why primitive people adopted it. ...
You referfenced religion. Now you reference Christian theology....if you are familiar with Christian theology you will familiarize yourself with current Christian theologies which were not formed by primitive man. Some of them were instead formed by enterprising business men and women wanting to profit from the highly profitable religious industry. Do enough research and you will see some religions that had fraudulent trumpeteers in trees to generate reverential noises to help convince the attendees that God is real.
GodLied.
Although there is a Scientologist bookstore in town, I never entered it. Once I knew Scientology began from a bet, I never bothered to learn more about it because it is inherently fraudulently manufactured wonderments of religion crafted to win a bet. No other information is necessary to disprove any god or gods that may be posed by Scientology.Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
[B...It's really a stretch to call Scientology a religion. The supernatural part of it was lifted directly from the material that L. Ron Hubbard put into his science fiction novels. It was injected into the scientologist philosophy for one reason: in order for it to qualify as a religion under the laws of the U.S. and enjoy the freedom from taxation and all the other privileges that churches get. You never hear Scientologists evangelizing their version of prehistory. [/B]
GodLied.
Hmmm. At least Wicca is a religion wherein women have higher rank than men.Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
And all of them were pathetic attempts by men living uncomfortably in the Age of Enlightenment to find a way back to the early Christian era when they were undisputed lords and masters of their whole world.
...
GodLied.
Originally posted by GodLied
Hmmm. At least Wicca is a religion wherein women have higher rank than men.
GodLied.
...as they should be!
Says Godlied:
Agreed. Lest we forget the jealous camel-driver that fled to Medina on account of his Jesus-envy and his wanting to play too.
On Hubbard's hoax too we see eye to eye, Godlied. Scientology: quasi-theism serving as fodder for the aging hippie and the New Ager. Not to mention the crafty tax evasions that sir Fraggle has.
BUT!- we're going to have to part on this, comrade:
I'm sure you're acquinted with the gruesome fall of the Roman empire and how after its demise it was left to the mercy of viscious Barbarians and Vandals waiting to rip it apart. There was only on thing then that kept half the western world from reverting back to the cave and nomadic chaos. The church.
The same beacon shone in the Dark Ages.
Animals go by instinct. Savages run on blind motive. The civilized man goes on faith. Without faith there would be no reasons for our yesterfolk to want to go on living. This means that *had* there been no faith long ago, the great grandaddy Godlieds that begot the sprog that begot the sprog and so on that eventually begot junior Godlied would have no reasons for doing so.
You might argue that he'd continue his breeding anyway like ferral men and that's true, but you'd be rotting in a cave leperous with scurvy and not the enlightened soul I'm sure you think you are.
Baptists, Methodists, and Mormons had their founders in direct mental link to primitive man: Baptists started their religion on the East Coast, Methodists started their religion out of a dorm room, Mormons started their religion when a guy wanted multiple wives.
Agreed. Lest we forget the jealous camel-driver that fled to Medina on account of his Jesus-envy and his wanting to play too.
On Hubbard's hoax too we see eye to eye, Godlied. Scientology: quasi-theism serving as fodder for the aging hippie and the New Ager. Not to mention the crafty tax evasions that sir Fraggle has.
BUT!- we're going to have to part on this, comrade:
Organized religion is the best con art in the world.
I'm sure you're acquinted with the gruesome fall of the Roman empire and how after its demise it was left to the mercy of viscious Barbarians and Vandals waiting to rip it apart. There was only on thing then that kept half the western world from reverting back to the cave and nomadic chaos. The church.
The same beacon shone in the Dark Ages.
Animals go by instinct. Savages run on blind motive. The civilized man goes on faith. Without faith there would be no reasons for our yesterfolk to want to go on living. This means that *had* there been no faith long ago, the great grandaddy Godlieds that begot the sprog that begot the sprog and so on that eventually begot junior Godlied would have no reasons for doing so.
You might argue that he'd continue his breeding anyway like ferral men and that's true, but you'd be rotting in a cave leperous with scurvy and not the enlightened soul I'm sure you think you are.
LucidDreamer
Registered Senior Member
GodLied,
Sigh… here we go again. If you will reread my posts you will see that I was speaking about primitive PRE-CHRISTIAN religions and how they ultimately played a role in the foundation of civilization – ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, etc.
You started this thread with a very general statement about religion. You should have been more specific if you wanted to discuss Christian theology and its role in society today.
This will be my final post on this subject.
Sigh… here we go again. If you will reread my posts you will see that I was speaking about primitive PRE-CHRISTIAN religions and how they ultimately played a role in the foundation of civilization – ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, etc.
You started this thread with a very general statement about religion. You should have been more specific if you wanted to discuss Christian theology and its role in society today.
This will be my final post on this subject.
Originally posted by gendanken
...Animals go by instinct. Savages run on blind motive. The civilized man goes on faith. Without faith there would be no reasons for our yesterfolk to want to go on living. This means that *had* there been no faith long ago, the great grandaddy Godlieds that begot the sprog that begot the sprog and so on that eventually begot junior Godlied would have no reasons for doing so.
You might argue that he'd continue his breeding anyway like ferral men and that's true, but you'd be rotting in a cave leperous with scurvy and not the enlightened soul I'm sure you think you are.
So, it is your basis that without religious faith a species, such as man, will cease to exist because of lack of faith? Such a consideration means that all flora and fauna incapable of having faith should not exist. Under your reasoning only humans of faith should have existence on Earth. Obviously, that is not the case. Your theory is therefore false.
GodLied.
So, it is your basis that without religious faith a species, such as man, will cease to exist because of lack of faith? Such a consideration means that all flora and fauna incapable of having faith should not exist. Under your reasoning only humans of faith should have existence on Earth. Obviously, that is not the case. Your theory is therefore false.
Not so much 'religious faith' as in godhead, but more in the way of these cognitive habits we thinking creatures have of setting goals and conceptualizing terms such as "future" and "destiny". Couple that with the frosty chills of uncertainty and you'll see that its not just the organized cannons of Judeo-Christianity, Buddhism, Islam or Hinduism that I'm talking about. Most anything where hope can breed will do.
What's more, did I not allude to fauna's fuel being instinct?
I'd say you're jumping guns by calling my theories false, godman.
Last edited:
Originally posted by gendanken
...What's more, did I not allude to fauna's fuel being instinct?
...
Animals quarantined in the same cage tend not to breed such as large cats and primates. However, when males and females are separated until breeding time, sex happens and babies are generated. This is true of several zoo animals.
Pheromones are not an instinct.
GodLied.