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- Thread starter Pi-Sudoku
- Start date
Don't benefit from the state? Think about that a little bit:
That means that you can't get food and water at the store ...even if you had the money to buy it!
That means that you can't live in a house constructed by anyone other than yourself. But then, you can't get the material from a store, because that's benefitting from the state. You also can't build on land that you don't own ...and you can't own any land, because that's a benefit of the state (of laws of the state).
You won't be able to use the sewer systems of the state, so you have to shit and piss in a hole in the ground.
You won't have any electricity, because that's part of the state system.
You can't drive a car on a highway or street ...even if you had a car, which you won't have, because that's part of the state system.
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Think about what the state provides, directly or indirectly, and you'll see quite quickly that you can't live any kind of life without it ...regardless of how you feel about the state.
Baron Max
That means that you can't get food and water at the store ...even if you had the money to buy it!
That means that you can't live in a house constructed by anyone other than yourself. But then, you can't get the material from a store, because that's benefitting from the state. You also can't build on land that you don't own ...and you can't own any land, because that's a benefit of the state (of laws of the state).
You won't be able to use the sewer systems of the state, so you have to shit and piss in a hole in the ground.
You won't have any electricity, because that's part of the state system.
You can't drive a car on a highway or street ...even if you had a car, which you won't have, because that's part of the state system.
*
*
*
Think about what the state provides, directly or indirectly, and you'll see quite quickly that you can't live any kind of life without it ...regardless of how you feel about the state.
Baron Max
The Amish probably come as close to it as anyone ever has, though. For example, it's ONLY because of having to pay taxes on their land and property that they even need money! Thus, the state actually FORCES them to sell to outsiders ...otherwise they'd not have any money for taxes. If the state left them alone, they could probably be just very close to waht the original poster was talking about.
Baron Max
Baron Max
Yep, the Amish only do so to afford the taxes that they have to pay for their land since they're not in a true independent area. If they were truly independent, they'd have no taxes to pay. I admire the Amish and I like their saying of using technology but don't be a slave to it.
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Mosheh Thezion
Registered Senior Member
PI-sudoku....
yes you can... its called being pennyless and homeless....
or...
you can go and live in the mountains and hunt and grow your own food.
othwise...
the gov't will take away what you have if you dont pay taxes.
the amish.. dont pay taxes... and dont use any services..
they can doo so, because of religous freedom... but they also live strict religious lives..
-MT
yes you can... its called being pennyless and homeless....
or...
you can go and live in the mountains and hunt and grow your own food.
othwise...
the gov't will take away what you have if you dont pay taxes.
the amish.. dont pay taxes... and dont use any services..
they can doo so, because of religous freedom... but they also live strict religious lives..
-MT
Nasor said:I would argue that the Amish do benefit substantially from the state. Among other things, the state defends their property rights by preventing any developer with a bulldozer from demolishing their homes and putting up a shopping mall.
I would agree ....but.... if there were no "state", and the Amish were the only people on Earth, then there would be no developers to bulldoze their homes. So, in essence, the "state" actually created the developers AND the need for such shopping malls. See? If one begins to think in those terms, it all becomes nothing but a vicious cycle with little or no meaning to the arguments.
I would also argue that if there were no "state", then the Amish would probably defend their own homes and property from being destroyed by those developers (the vicious hordes?).
Baron Max
I think y'all would be surprised at the number of people who "opt out" of society. Although they do it in differing ways and methods than one usually considers.
Take many of the so-called homeless, for example ...they've "opted out" of the norms of society. They use the parts of society that they want, and opt out of what they don't want. They use social services, but don't obey the usual norms of social interaction and contribution.
A neighbor of mine, a 30-something year old man, has "opted out" of society in his own way; his parents pay for all of his basic needs, provide him a home, and he does absolutely nothing to contribute in any way. He doesn't even mow the lawn ...his mother comes over and mows it once a week. See? He's "opted out" of society ...it's just in a different way than we usually think of "opting out".
Baron Max
Take many of the so-called homeless, for example ...they've "opted out" of the norms of society. They use the parts of society that they want, and opt out of what they don't want. They use social services, but don't obey the usual norms of social interaction and contribution.
A neighbor of mine, a 30-something year old man, has "opted out" of society in his own way; his parents pay for all of his basic needs, provide him a home, and he does absolutely nothing to contribute in any way. He doesn't even mow the lawn ...his mother comes over and mows it once a week. See? He's "opted out" of society ...it's just in a different way than we usually think of "opting out".
Baron Max