of gods and presidents...

[mario]

Both bush and kerry believe in god...so they say. Do you believe them? Clinton has been photographed going to church and we all know about his little escapades. Can you start an "illegal" war and still cherish love and peace and turn-the-other-cheekiness? Bush supposedly bases his worldly decisions on what god wants for everybody...truth, democracy, freedom, blah blah blah. So whatever he decides can't be that bad, can it?

And who do you think god would vote for?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

mario: Both bush and kerry believe in god...so they say. Do you believe them?
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M*W: I have more trust in the faith Bush seems to have, although I don't feel that his faith should interfere or influence any decisions. However, I don't believe that is possible because it is actually the Congress that makes the decisions. I see Kerry as a phoney, and I strongly believe that he would make errant decisions based on his extreme liberalism that would impact the country and the Congress negatively. Kerry is not an honest man nor a valiant man. Regarding his Vietnam service he is both a liar and a buffoon. I'm not sure how to take Teresa Heinz Kerry. She seems more authentic than her husband. I'm not sure what societal impact her having a foreign nationality and dialect would represent to the rest of the world. She is a strong woman as is Laura Bush. Kerry was Lt. Gov. under Michael Dukakis. That should say it all. We need the next four years to complete our mission in Iraq. I don't believe Kerry would do a good job on foreign affairs. We have a Republican Congress. Putting a Democrat in the White House would cause major bipartisanship in Congress and as usual where Kerry is concerned, nothing would ever get done.
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mario: Clinton has been photographed going to church and we all know about his little escapades.
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M*W: That was all for show.
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mario: Can you start an "illegal" war and still cherish love and peace and turn-the-other-cheekiness?
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M*W: First, this was not an "illegal" war. Congress voted to invade Iraq. The vote was unanimous.
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mario: Bush supposedly bases his worldly decisions on what god wants for everybody...truth, democracy, freedom, blah blah blah. So whatever he decides can't be that bad, can it?
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M*W: Again, the sitting President can make whatever decisions he wants, but it is Congress that votes yea or nay.
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mario: And who do you think god would vote for?
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M*W: The god of the Bible would have Israel attack every man, woman and child on the earth or just wipe us all out with one big puff. Than god he doesn't exist.

 

[James R]

Bush is a born-again Christian. Virtually everything he does is influenced by his own idea of what God is and what God wants. Bush's worldview is black and white. Either you're good or you're evil. Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists. Hence his attraction for those you don't want to have to think too hard. His messages are very simple and easy to digest.

I don't know about Kerry's personal beliefs. He isn't a fundamentalist, but he may still be a good Christian.

 

[okinrus]

Kerry is currently a catholic, but his views on abortion and stem-cell research are uncatholic.

M*W, how are you so certain of Kerry's vietnam record? Do you believe the Swift Boat veterans for truth?

 

[James R]

M*W:

I have more trust in the faith Bush seems to have, although I don't feel that his faith should interfere or influence any decisions.

His record shows that it influences virtually all of the important decisions.

However, I don't believe that is possible because it is actually the Congress that makes the decisions.

Ugh! I'm an Australian, and even I know that executive power is vested in the President, not Congress. There is much that the President can do without asking Congress first. He also has veto over some actions of Congress.

It sounds like you should read up on how your own government works.

I see Kerry as a phoney, and I strongly believe that he would make errant decisions based on his extreme liberalism that would impact the country and the Congress negatively.

Kerry isn't a radical liberal, in fact. He's fairly moderate. That's one reason why he is running for President instead of somebody like Dean.

Kerry is not an honest man nor a valiant man. Regarding his Vietnam service he is both a liar and a buffoon.

That depends very much on who you believe, doesn't it? I assume you haven't personally researched his war record.

We need the next four years to complete our mission in Iraq. I don't believe Kerry would do a good job on foreign affairs. We have a Republican Congress. Putting a Democrat in the White House would cause major bipartisanship in Congress and as usual where Kerry is concerned, nothing would ever get done.

Easily fixed! You should change control of Congress when you change the President.

M*W: First, this was not an "illegal" war. Congress voted to invade Iraq. The vote was unanimous.

Have you ever heard of the United Nations? Does it matter to you at all?

 

[Adstar]

An ambitious politician in a democratic setting will always seek to reflect the norms of the population they seek to lead. Doing a good job of reflecting the norms of the population has nothing to do with actually believing in what the average member of the population believes in. As long as a politician can successfully project the right image then they will get the votes and thus achieve their ambition.

All Praise the Ancient of Days

 

[Tiassa]

First, this was not an "illegal" war. Congress voted to invade Iraq. The vote was unanimous.

I'm pretty sure Congressman McDermott would disagree with you about the vote. Furthermore, that Congress authorizes a war through regular or irregular means does not necessarily make that war "legal". The United States has ignored obligations it has agreed to.

Additionally, God told George W. Bush to invade Iraq. Or so says George W. Bush.

 

[JustARide]

M*W: I have more trust in the faith Bush seems to have, although I don't feel that his faith should interfere or influence any decisions. However, I don't believe that is possible because it is actually the Congress that makes the decisions. I see Kerry as a phoney, and I strongly believe that he would make errant decisions based on his extreme liberalism that would impact the country and the Congress negatively.

MW:

A) All politicians are phoney. They're policitians.
B) I'll take a sane phoney over a genuine raving lunatic any day.

We need the next four years to complete our mission in Iraq. I don't believe Kerry would do a good job on foreign affairs.

Yeah, Bush has done a magnificent job. The world loves us.

First, this was not an "illegal" war. Congress voted to invade Iraq. The vote was unanimous.

"Illegal war" does not refer, in this instance, to our legal system. The invasion of Iraq was illegal under international law. Remember the UN? We did sign the charter, you know.

 

[James R]

JustARide:

A) All politicians are phoney. They're policitians.

How many politicians do you know, personally? I'm betting on none.

 

[mustafhakofi]

james: you said: Can you start an "illegal" war and still cherish love and peace and turn-the-other-cheekiness?.
as I see it, almost all the leaders past and present, has gone to war believing there god, was on there side. so I'm sure they dont think there doing any wrong, illegal or not. even with the wait of the world telling bush, he was wrong, he go'es around without a care in the world, or he's putting a brave face on it.

 

[melodicbard]

M*W: First, this was not an "illegal" war. Congress voted to invade Iraq. The vote was unanimous.

The war is illegal even if it is passed by Congress. This is clearly against international laws. If you don't think Bush is personally responsible for this war, then you should be consider it an organized crime with Bush & Co. as the leaders of the gang.

 

[spidergoat]

Isn't it strange that Bush Jr. became born again soon after Pat Robertson revealed the power of the evangelical vote in (when was that- 1987?). There must have been some eureka moment when Bush realized he could pander his way into power, instead of running on his meager intellect.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

okinrus: Kerry is currently a catholic, but his views on abortion and stem-cell research are uncatholic.

M*W, how are you so certain of Kerry's vietnam record? Do you believe the Swift Boat veterans for truth?
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M*W: I know one of the guys who served with him in Nam. Kerry's only interest was to serve himself.

BTW, there is nothing unholy about stem cell research.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

James R: M*W: His record shows that it influences virtually all of the important decisions.

Ugh! I'm an Australian, and even I know that executive power is vested in the President, not Congress. There is much that the President can do without asking Congress first. He also has veto over some actions of Congress.

It sounds like you should read up on how your own government works.

Kerry isn't a radical liberal, in fact. He's fairly moderate. That's one reason why he is running for President instead of somebody like Dean.

That depends very much on who you believe, doesn't it? I assume you haven't personally researched his war record.

Easily fixed! You should change control of Congress when you change the President.
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M*W: That's not the way it works. Members of Congress are voted in, too. We have a Republican Congress now, and with a Democratic president, that means four years of nada.
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James R: Have you ever heard of the United Nations? Does it matter to you at all?
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M*W: The United Nations does not govern us. We shouldn't have even gone to the UN. America is the most powerful country in the world. The UN has its own interest and objectives, and that does not mean the UN has the best interest of America or world on its plate.
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M*W: Kinda glad you won't be voting in this upcoming election.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

melodicbard: The war is illegal even if it is passed by Congress. This is clearly against international laws. If you don't think Bush is personally responsible for this war, then you should be consider it an organized crime with Bush & Co. as the leaders of the gang.
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M*W: The United States is not governed by "international laws."
The UN is just another bureaucratic organization created to be a facade for international terrorists organizations. If our entry into Iraq was "illegal," then that should be decided by the world court. It'll never happen. The US liberated millions of Iraqis under Saddam's oppression. It was the right thing to do.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

spidergoat: Isn't it strange that Bush Jr. became born again soon after Pat Robertson revealed the power of the evangelical vote in (when was that- 1987?). There must have been some eureka moment when Bush realized he could pander his way into power, instead of running on his meager intellect.
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M*W: I doubt the evangelical vote holds that much water. Bush is a politician whether he's born-again or not. If Kerry gets elected, we should invite the terrorists over for tea.

 

[okinrus]

M*W, stem cells used ethically, like Bush supports, is morally justified; but the harvesting of human embroys for their stem cells is not.

M*W: I know one of the guys who served with him in Nam. Kerry's only interest was to serve himself.

Is he one of the swift boart veterans for truth? Did he give any examples of Kerry's selfishness?

I suspect the war on Iraq was not Bush's idea but Rumsfield's. I don't particularly like Rumsfield's attitute. When he speaks to reporters, he seems prideful, condescening, and angry.

M*W: The United States is not governed by "international laws."
The UN is just another bureaucratic organization created to be a facade for international terrorists organizations. If our entry into Iraq was "illegal," then that should be decided by the world court. It'll never happen. The US liberated millions of Iraqis under Saddam's oppression. It was the right thing to do.

Yes, but it's in our self-interest that other countries abide by some ethical code. In practice, however, the UN has not had complete success in their mission for world peace, and often they have been downright unethical. Such situations as Rwanda and Sudan should never have occurred.

 

[melodicbard]

melodicbard: The war is illegal even if it is passed by Congress. This is clearly against international laws. If you don't think Bush is personally responsible for this war, then you should be consider it an organized crime with Bush & Co. as the leaders of the gang.
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M*W: The United States is not governed by "international laws."
The UN is just another bureaucratic organization created to be a facade for international terrorists organizations. If our entry into Iraq was "illegal," then that should be decided by the world court. It'll never happen. The US liberated millions of Iraqis under Saddam's oppression. It was the right thing to do.

OK. OBL is not governed by "international laws."
The US is just another oppressive imperialist state. If the 911 attack was "Illegal," then that should be decided by the world court. It'll never happen. OBL is a heroic defender of the values of Islam extremists and liberated many souls from the corruption by american values. It was the right and holy thing to do.

Note: Sorry if this offends anyone. I just bring up some lame arguments.
It is difficult to change the view of others and it is fruitless to discuss further.

 

[JustARide]

JustARide:



How many politicians do you know, personally? I'm betting on none.

I'm a reporter for a radio station, James. I've met nearly all of the states political leaders. I know our mayor and council members well. I've also interviewed Janet Reno, Dennis Kucinich, Ralph Nader, a host of journalists who cover Washington politics including Helen Thomas, Christopher Hitchens, and most recently former Daily Show correspondent Mo Rocca.

I've met politicians and, though some I would certainly call "true believers," they are all phoney to some extent. Anyone who has to try to appeal to everyone must adopt some level of facade. It's a fact.

 

[JustARide]

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M*W: The United States is not governed by "international laws."

Well, in one sense you're correct. We certainly act like we are not governed by any international laws.

The UN is just another bureaucratic organization created to be a facade for international terrorists organizations.

We helped create the UN, MW.

If our entry into Iraq was "illegal," then that should be decided by the world court. It'll never happen.

It'll never happen because the US does not recognize the World Court at all. In fact, we are only in favor of international law if it benefits our interests. Otherwise screw Kyoto. Screw the World Court. Screw fair trade rules.

Gee, ever wonder why the rest of the world fucking hates us?

The US liberated millions of Iraqis under Saddam's oppression. It was the right thing to do.

It's worth noting that we killed over 12,000 innocent civilians in the process (how many 9/11's would that be?). This is only after we supported Saddam Hussein through his worst atrocities, including the gassing of the Kurds in the north. We supported Saddam with weapons and intelligence throughout the Iran-Iraq war because we happened to hate Iran more at the time.

So yay us. We helped arm him. We disarmed him.

If a gang member helps beat me and then turns around and helps me back up it doesn't exactly mean I want to add him to my Christmas card list.