Now ... I mean ... really, come on ....

[Tiassa]

Virgin mary seen in US hospital (BBC)

A US hospital has asked the Catholic Church for help after being swamped by thousands of people seeking to view what they believe is an image of the Virgin Mary in a third-floor window.

More than 25,000 people visited the Milton Hospital near Boston, Massachusetts, at the weekend as word of the likeness began to spread.

Attention is focused on a medical office building where the likeness is reportedly formed by a leaking chemical deposit inside a sealed window.

The hospital has asked pilgrims to limit their visiting hours to between 1730 and 1830 local time, as it braces for another surge of visitors at the weekend . . . .

. . . .Dozens of bouquets have been placed beneath the window.

A large plastic container for money has also been set there.

One hospital worker saw a mother bring her son, who uses a wheelchair, to touch the wall with his legs . . . .

. . . . The Boston Globe reported that the crowds had made parking for staff and visitors extremely tight.

The newspaper said the extra visitors had also made it hard for hospital cleaners to keep the grounds free of rubbish.

But the hospital maintains that it does not consider the flood of visitors a "nuisance".

Um ....

Yeah.

I'm having difficulty finding commentary at this point because most of what comes to mind is political; "And we worry about Bush?" for instance. I suppose it's fair to say to internationals that there are reasons this country is tangled up in a holy war.

Really, this sort of thing is just ... disturbing.

:m:,
Tiassa

 

[okinrus]

I cannot even make out her in the photograph...
Anyways watch this pilgrim site http://www.medjugorje.org/ I think if it's real, then there will be a sign to believe just like Fatima.

 

[one_raven]

*simply sighs and shakes his head*

 

[Mucker]

Well I don't think it would happen in America, if it happpened anywhere!

 

[Tiassa]

Dervish tales and other considerations

According to the Sufis (Dervishes, actually) in order to invoke the presence of Khidr, the Green One, a compassionate manifestation of Allah, one must increase their necessity.

And I can't remember exactly how it goes, but isn't the Hail Mary, " ... pray for us sinners ..." something something something?

And recalling the extent of Christian evangelism in American prisons ....

I think that if Mary's going to be popping up, an American metropolis would be begging for an appearance.

Nonetheless, I was once in a small park (Ratcliffe) in Salem, Oregon. Sitting atop one of those dome-shaped jungle-gym things as the sky faded to night, smoking cigarettes and talking up the occult with friends, I saw the Virgin Mary appear before me in the sky.

What it was, specifically, was a patch of still-light sky, shaded just so by clouds, framed by trees to approximate the shape of the Virgin Mother.

It was great until my friend fell through the bars while laughing. He was okay, though, so we laughed at him instead of apparitions in the sky.

:m:,
Tiassa

 

[atheroy]

how stupid can people get? not much more than that i reckon.

 

[Bebelina]

Well, they see what they see, and if it's caused by leaking chemicals or not doesnt change what they interpret it as.
I can see the image of Virgin Mary, it has the same bodyshape as she is ususally portrayed in, and you can see her arm holding something, like baby Jesus, but no faces are detectable.
This can , as always, be interpreted in so many ways.
One can see it as a material manifestation of a religious message, just as people look for signs in every day life. If you drive by a big advertisement sign for example and it has a slogan that somehow hits the right spot with something that you are currently occupied with, then many take that as a message from "above" too. Say you are thinking of wether to do something or not, and see the Nike slogan "just do it".
If you want to call it a coincidence, then do, but don't mock people for wanting to think further.

 

[Flores]

I agree with Beb, that we shouldn't mock people for seeing something, even though it may appear to us incredibly rediculous. I see visions all the time that I don't dare tell others because it may be construed crazy, so we shouldn't judge people on their visions, inspirations, dreams, ect......Only on their actions, and those people didn't seem to do any bad action. As long as those people don't start doing things that interfere with the rest of us, they are fine. For example, if those people went so far to not allow the glass window to be removed from the room and converted the hospital to a museam, then I'll have a problem with it..other than that, I sortta feel happy for them that they feel happy.

 

[Cris]

Bebelina,

While synchronicity does appear to occur, especially since I have experienced it many times, that is really quite different to someone interpreting a random pattern as having meaning.

Our brains are extremely good at filling in the blanks. Your memory for example doesn’t record things like a camera; your memory is actually full of holes. Most optical illusions rely on that feature. Your brain is constantly trying to translate what it sees into recognizable images. There is nothing spiritual or supernatural about these basic neurological functions. And those who do believe there is something mystical about such random patterns are simply very gullible and ignorant.

Now, synchronicity is quite a different avenue of investigation, which unfortunately is currently entrenched in mystical and spiritual gobbledygook. After a quick search I couldn’t find any website showing any serious investigation.

 

[Bebelina]

Originally posted by Cris

And those who do believe there is something mystical about such random patterns are simply very gullible and ignorant.

It's comments like this that just takes the fun out of posting here.

 

[Cris]

Bebelina,

It's comments like this that just takes the fun out of posting here.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be hurtful, I truly meant what I said as a factual observation.

Can you show that I am wrong.

 

[Bebelina]

Well, to begin with it's not a factual observation, it's an opinion.
One can see basic neurological functions as something spiritual too, can't they be both spiritual and physical, must there really be a division, one or the other, why not both?

 

[Cris]

Bebelina,

Well, to begin with it's not a factual observation, it's an opinion.

Now you’ve gone too far. You are implying that my opinions and facts are somehow different?

But really; given any relatively large finite number of natural objects/substances that can form in random patterns means that there will be a positive probability of a relatively small finite number of patterns that will match the appearance of recognizable objects. To then believe that such arrangements are somehow intentional because they are recognizable demonstrates at least gullibility and clear ignorance of simple mathematics.

One can see basic neurological functions as something spiritual too,

Why give two names to the same thing?

can't they be both spiritual and physical, must there really be a division, one or the other, why not both?

Neurological functions have a physical cause. However, if you are referring to the emotions of wonderment, amazement, surprise, intrigue, etc as being spiritual, then sure I can appreciate that.

 

[Bebelina]

I don't see why they would have to be gullable and ignorant. Can't a mathematician be spiritual?
What I'm trying to say is that even if we know how all the physical laws work and accept them, there is nothing that sais that we can't also see beyond them, or within them, and interpret whatever comes out of physicality as spiritual too.
Why two names? Because it's two aspects of the same phenomena, like sweet and sour sauce.
I wasn't refering to any specifik emotions and am quite surprised that you refer to certain emotions as spiritual.
I think all emotionions, including those you mentioned, have neurological causes, but also spiritual.
Humans seek balance. If there is too much chaos, we seek order, if there is too much order ,we seek chaos. We need that undecided part of existance to keep us interested in participating, to see random events form a pattern that we can recongnize. A sense of wonder, allthogh we KNOW how they were formed physically.
Nothing is ever just one thing, it's always many things.
But I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, this is just the way I see it.

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by Cris
While synchronicity does appear to occur, especially since I have experienced it many times, that is really quite different to someone interpreting a random pattern as having meaning.

those who do believe there is something mystical about such random patterns are simply very gullible and ignorant.

Exactly, for instance, think of all those chemical stains on hospital windows which do not look like the virgin mary (Acctualy I think that this one falls into that category, as well, because I just don't see it, but that's beside the point). Now think of all those chemical stains on windows which may look like something else, like say the taco bell dog. Is this somehow proof that the taco bell dog is somehow mysterious or divine? Not at all, it's simply a random pattern caused by a stain.

 

[Tiassa]

Something to think about ... or chuckle at ... or get excited about ... or something

Signs of the Holy Mother - United States Archive

It's a listing of reported apparitions of the Virgin in the United States during the 1990s, including one of my favorites, from 1997:

Thousands of belivers flocked to an ordinary traffic sign here hoping to catch a glimpse of an image of the Virgin Mary. Chico Rodriquez, a police officer in this town about 30 miles southeast of Yakima, said he saw Madonna images on a road sign east of the city limits. "It shows like the figure of the Virgin Mary," Rodriquez said last Sunday. "It's the full figure. You really can't make out the face ... more of a profile. It's just all of the collars and stuff there."

The sighting was first reported around 4 p.m. Saturday on the sign at the intersection of state Route 241 and Yakima Valley Highway. Within hours, thousands were arriving as the report spread by word of mouth among the predominately Hispanic communities in the area.

What people were looking at was an iridescent outline on the back of the highway sign. The pattern was a random occurrence, the iridescence a product of the manufacturing process.

:m:,
Tiassa