Non Realistic Conceptions

U

URI

IMU
Registered Senior Member
I believe that humankind holds many mental conceptions that can have no basis is reality.

I am wondering if this list can be added to

(a) the non existence of the straight line
(b) the non existence of an absolutely stationary object
(c) time of course does not exist
(d) because of (a) the theoretical value of pi is of no use.

there must be more

I am making a list and checking it twice, LOL

Like to help ?
 
The most important false mental conception is that things exist seperate from one another. Language is the biggest advocate of this myth.

I'm not so sure about yours, though you're right about them in some way.

a) the straight line exists in a sense. Light is the only straight line, but the straightness of its line can be warped by space. But does that mean the line is not straight, or that space is not straight?
b) I think i'd agree with you on this, unless you looked at it in the sense that at any given moment, all things are stationary for a time of no duration. That is, does change actually exist? Are we moving, or is something moving through us?
c) time does not exist, but it appears that change does, which is basically the same thing.
d) but the practical value of pi is infinite. does that mean it doesn't actually exist?
 
I don't understand what "non-realistic" means.

Time surely exists. It is called the fourth dimension. Calling time a dimension is the only way we know how to do physics.

One can draw an arbitrarily straight line. Or like Roy said, go out to a region of space and follow a light beam. Also "straight" depends on the shape of the space, and the definition. If you call straight "the shortest distance between two points", then "straight" lines on the surface of the earth are great circles. Open up the bullshit magazine in the seat pocket on an airplane and turn to the back.

An object can be made to be stationary with respect to other objects. There is no absolute reference frame, so there can be no idea of an object "at rest" without defining "at rest to what".

Pi can be defined in multiple ways, in an infinite series, for example:

$$ \frac{\pi^2}{6} = \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{n^2} $$

Constructing and measuring these things are engineering challenges.
 
Or, if you like...

$$ \pi =\sqrt{6 \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{n^2} }$$
 
nice replies, thanks :)

lets look a little closer to pi
if an actual straight straight-line does not exist then a plane does not exist and a flat circle can not be drawn.
and if that is true then how do you define pi if it does not have a fixed value other than, Pi is the relation between a diameter (? not straight, 2D bent) and a circumference of a circle (3D bent).

This last dilemma is rather important for navigating space travel.
 
Umm I just told you how to define pi. Sum up the inverse squares of all the positive integers. Multiply by six and take a square root. You don't need to use geometry to define pi, you can use complex analysis to do it.

This is an engineering problem.
 
>>> You don't need to use geometry to define pi, you can use complex analysis to do it. This is an engineering problem.>>

Classic useless theory based upon unsatisfactorily engineered foundations.

I thought science did better than that, ....it is the study of reality after all, where reality defines the theory

and not a study into total fantasy, where your theory defines reality.
 
URI: the phrase does not exist can get awfully tricky. We know that heat is a derived effect of motion, and there's no fundamental thing called heat, not like charge. But put your hand on the stove and it bloody exists all right. I feel the same about time, in that it "exists", even though it isn't some fundamental fourth dimension. I agree with the sense of what you're saying, we do tend to infer existence when it isn't warranted, but maybe your examples are a little harsh. One thing I'm interested in is "reference frames". Now they don't exist. And here's a cracker: consciousness. It seems real, but it only exists only in your head. It's an illusion, but it's real.... duh!
 
Farsight said:
One thing I'm interested in is "reference frames". Now they don't exist.
Click to expand...

So essentially, what your decrying, is that one is NOT able to observe and measure a set of points or objects in any given system or their placements relative to each other?

You've just flushed ALL physics down the drain. Congratulations! :bravo:
 
BenTheMan said:
Or, if you like...

$$ \pi =\sqrt{6 \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{n^2} }$$
Click to expand...


when i first saw that i was awestruck.such a complex thing reduced to something even a high school kid could understand (if you laid it out in the fraction form).
stupid/difficult question : how did they arrive at that answer?
 
>> how did they arrive at that answer?

That my friend is a very good question.... they used straight lines and flat planes, which is incorrect
 
It's largely irrelevant whether or not straight lines, flat planes and pi do or do not exist as REAL things.
A) the concepts work... proof enough for me as an engineer
B) the space we inhabit is curved and what we call a straight line IS straight in that space (or at least indistinguishably so to all our instruments and everything else we put next to the line)
 
stupid/difficult question : how did they arrive at that answer?
Click to expand...

Not really a stupid question at all:) It's a tricky series to sum, and I don't know exactly how it's done. Factors of pi normally pop up when working with complex numbers, so it probably comes from some nice complex analysis.

To URI---the concept of existence IS an abstract one. To think otherwise is just foolish. As I said before, the concept of MEASURING pi is an engineering challenge.

This is another post which should be in the pseudo science bin. But alas...
 
BenTheMan said:
Pi can be defined in multiple ways, in an infinite series, for example:

$$ \frac{\pi^2}{6} = \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac{1}{n^2} $$
Click to expand...

Just a minor correction: surely you mean

$$ \frac{\pi^2}{6} = \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{1}{n^2} $$

or more compactly,

$$ \frac{\pi^2}{6} = \zeta(2)$$
 
Ben you an accedemic ?

LOL a science that bears no relation to reality is worse that useless, it stiffles discussion.
 
Ben you an accedemic ?
Click to expand...

I am not sure what this has to do with anything...

LOL a science that bears no relation to reality is worse that useless, it stiffles discussion.
Click to expand...

I still don't understand what points you are making.
 
I disagree with the move to pseudoscience. It seems you only moved it here because you misunderstand and disagree. At the least this topic is a human science.
 
It seems you only moved it here because you misunderstand and disagree.
Click to expand...

IF it were up to me, the pseudo science forum would be a very active place. Secondly, how can I misunderstand and disagree at the same time??? I understand URI's points, but am confused as to why he thinks they are issues.
 
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