Tronkostroglutegunkr
Registered Senior Member
That's the end of that, I guess.
Nobody knows! It's all faith!
- Thread starter Tronkostroglutegunkr
- Start date
You do not chose a religion, as religion makes god
Religion defines god, and many people use religion as a guide for their convictions. I think most people are born into religion, but there are some who turn to it later in life. I've searched myself, but could never find satisfactory answers on which to firmly anchor my beliefs, nothing that could ground me in a solid conviction that there is a god.
kx000
Valued Senior Member
He who hath a ear let him hear what the LORD saith unto the churches. Thats written in the Book of Revelation 7 times.
It's interesting to see how many times the word "faith" comes up in a search of an online bible. Religion relies on it heavily. I wish I could command such a following with the same premise.
We get these pills to swallow,
But noone knows.
We get these rules to follow,
This and that, these and those,
But noone knows.
We get these pills to swallow,
How they stick
In your throat,
They taste like gold.
--Queens of the Stone Age
But noone knows.
We get these rules to follow,
This and that, these and those,
But noone knows.
We get these pills to swallow,
How they stick
In your throat,
They taste like gold.
--Queens of the Stone Age
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
The primary meaning of the word 'faith' is something close to 'trust', I think. So when the word is used that way, faith isn't really a reason for believing in something. Rather, it's the trust that we have in the things we believe for other (hopefuly good) reasons.
Unfortunately, in Christianity 'faith' has come to mean something rather different, something close to a presumably supernatural source of knowledge in its own right. It turns into the suggestion that my assertion must be true precisely because I believe so strongly and unshakeably that it is.
I can see the psychological genesis of that. If I trust in something so unshakeably that I never allow myself to entertain any doubts about it, then I'm certainly going to be totally convinced of its truth.
The problem with that, obviously, is that the same move can be made with any belief. Schizophrenics often have absolute faith in, are totally convinced by and have no doubts at all about their own psychotic delusions.
Simply refusing (or being unable) to question an idea doesn't magically make it true.
Unfortunately, in Christianity 'faith' has come to mean something rather different, something close to a presumably supernatural source of knowledge in its own right. It turns into the suggestion that my assertion must be true precisely because I believe so strongly and unshakeably that it is.
I can see the psychological genesis of that. If I trust in something so unshakeably that I never allow myself to entertain any doubts about it, then I'm certainly going to be totally convinced of its truth.
The problem with that, obviously, is that the same move can be made with any belief. Schizophrenics often have absolute faith in, are totally convinced by and have no doubts at all about their own psychotic delusions.
Simply refusing (or being unable) to question an idea doesn't magically make it true.
Tronkostroglutegunkr
Registered Senior Member
I would rather though that theists simply justified their religion through faith. Using bad science and circular logic pains me, and diminishes what many religions such as Christianity specifically state as the path in their holy books: faith.
There is no reason to believe in God. There is only faith to believe in God. If people stick to that, then there is no need for any arguments on this ever.
If somebody has faith that God exists, but no rational arguments, then it becomes completely personal, and there is no mechanism for them to try and sway others to their will.
There is no reason to believe in God. There is only faith to believe in God. If people stick to that, then there is no need for any arguments on this ever.
If somebody has faith that God exists, but no rational arguments, then it becomes completely personal, and there is no mechanism for them to try and sway others to their will.
But there is. And that's the problem.
I know Noone. He owns a bunch of gas stations in Montana . Should I ask him if he knows ?
Loyalty -- we all nevertheless find ourselves having to indulge in that via adherence to commitments, obligations, social responsibilities, and various survival inter-dependencies. While this everyday loyalty might also be grounded in abstract feelings, rules, entities, or generalizations - their effects are concrete or empirical in terms of the human actions they trigger. Some of the supersensible and hypothetical beliefs of religion can have practical motives and results as well, but without commonsense regulation and critical review they have the historical, still current tendency to deviate into narrow-minded and persecutive practices. Also, the underlying shadow of political ambitions and other cultural machinations in either devising or hijacking religion as a tool for their goals should not be left out of the blame spotlight.
Tronkostroglutegunkr
Registered Senior Member
Only if they are still applying (faulty) logic and (cherry-picked and biased) evidence to prove God exists, and convince other people.. If they're only going on faith (as the Bible in particular dictates), then they have no leverage, and likewise we atheists have no leverage against them. We can live more peacefully if this attitude is adopted more broadly.
If I believe that I can demonstrate that I'm Napoleon, I would go around trying to get people to accept me as Napoleon, since I can show it, but if all it is is a gut feeling, a personal faith that I am, then I'm more inclined to keep it personal and not use it to manipulate others.
strangely enough, the only way you can confidently say this is if you know it all ...