What do you think I'm being cynical about, Spock?
News From Gaza
- Thread starter S.A.M.
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:shrug:
I meant it sincerely when I asked you (in post# 197) to relate the story of what I assume was an Israeli casualty, and I still want to know what you were alluding to when you said no one would shed a tear (post #196). If you think I don't care about the Jewish victims of ethnic warfare, then you've misjudged me.
"Come to realize" as in "echoes my darker perceptions". Never mind.
In fact, it could be argued that a single final culture is the aim of political islamism the world over - I have actually found none to denounce such a goal, anywhere. But your cry to truth and reason overlooks the state of religious minorities in Palestine and elsewhere in the islamic world - as the series intimidation of Nebi Musa illustrates quite vividly. It's all very well to wave our hands and say that if there weren't discrimination on one basis, there'd be discrimintation on another basis, but it doesn't really absolve the responsible parties. For example: would it be fair to wave away the treatment of racial minorities since someone somewhere would have been oppressed if they weren't?
Actually it's because terrorist organizations and their safely positioned sponsors keep lobbing rockets and sending suicide bombers to blow up their kids. Your answer avoids the issue, however: are there Arabs in Israel or not?
No, multiculturalism in the Levant was the stylized description of second-hand (or third-hand) status for everyone not of a particular religion. Dressing oppression up as hilarious religious hijinks doesn't translate into "multiculturalism". This point in the case of discussion was rather notably put to rest with the Nebi Musa riots, which I encourage you to read up about.
As regards your well-wishing statement: not really. There was never any "coexistance" to be reintroduced, only a suppressed status for religious minorities, the same as everywhere else in the islamic world. And there certainly could never be any again when the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah -literally - enjoin their followers to "drink Jewish blood".
In point of fact this simply isn't true. Minorities in the islamic world were routinely exploited
No one would really contend otherwise for the Western world in the medieval period until well post-Enlightenment. Why is medieval islam - and its strictures which survive almost unbroken to today - being isolated and held up as some pretend experience of tolerance?
One might well ask what prompted such a period of fortress-building.
Forgive me, but the suffering of the oppressor culture rarely seems very substantial.
I think you mistake me. The persistence of multiethnic cultures into the 14th-15th centuries in the islamic period was partial at best, with the suppressed cultures often being used as tax base. Arab Jews were a tiny minority at best, and not above the strictures imposed on all non-islamic minorities.
If one can call supremacy and suppression "multiculturalism". I would not in parallel - nor would anyone - call the suppression of Native American culture "multiculturalism".
:shrug: The Israeli example merely represents more forcible action against segregation and religious suppression, and should be applauded for its early steps. Had blacks done the same in the US, one could hardly fault them.
I agree! And this is why I oppose societal second-class status for religious minorities in political islam; one who believes in such a system of segregated repression would, indeed, be crazy.
Best,
Geoff
I hear he made quite an interesting stain.
God certainly put something on him. Looks kinda like a hit. Anyone talked to the old chap, see what all that was about? I understand Riyadh has the direct line.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Respect for a murdering low life scum? :roflmao::roflmao:
Err...wasn't that how Palestine as an islamic state came about in the first place?
Spain? The Balkans? Pakistan? Iran? North Africa? Turkey? Iraq? Syria?
:shrug:
i see a blank nation as one that was created for said group. but that a nation which is/are blank was a nation rose from a group of people living there for a long time and creating a state that happened to belong to said group. the original state of isreal (the ancient one) was a nation that was jewish. the modern isreal is a jewish state. most muslim countries fall under the first term some muslim nations and modern isreal fall under the second
GeoffP: "Err... [don't past misdeeds make present ones kosher]?"
No. Try getting beyond infantile ethics.
No. Try getting beyond infantile ethics.
That was a point about Sam being a little hypocritical about the history of islam vis-a-vis that of Judaism. There is room for much reflection before one clicks "Submit", hype.
Out of puerile interest, if it even were about ethics per se, why would you term them infantile, specifically?
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i see a blank nation as one that was created for said group. but that a nation which is/are blank was a nation rose from a group of people living there for a long time and creating a state that happened to belong to said group. the original state of isreal (the ancient one) was a nation that was jewish. the modern isreal is a jewish state. most muslim countries fall under the first term some muslim nations and modern isreal fall under the second
Muslim states fit both your criteria. Not only are they muslim demographic-wise, but that religion playes a dominant role in shaping the face of that country: In many muslim states, for instance, their flag has a crescent in it, in others, its forbidden to act in an "unislamic way". In most, non-muslims are grossly discriminated, and the head of state cannot be non-muslim. Leaving semantics behind, Israel, as a Jewish state, is no different than many christian and muslim states and its terminology as a state of a religion is hardly unique. Infact, one might argue that Israel's minorities receive far more rights than non-muslim minorities in many muslim states.
Muslim states fit both your criteria. Not only are they muslim demographic-wise, but that religion playes a dominant role in shaping the face of that country: In many muslim states, for instance, their flag has a crescent in it, in others, its forbidden to act in an "unislamic way". In most, non-muslims are grossly discriminated, and the head of state cannot be non-muslim. Leaving semantics behind, Israel, as a Jewish state, is no different than many christian and muslim states and its terminology as a state of a religion is hardly unique. Infact, one might argue that Israel's minorities receive far more rights than non-muslim minorities in many muslim states.
What would you confer from this statement. Many Christian countries, also, have cross on their falgs.
I haven't heard of any muslim countries where non-muslims are beaten out of their homes and their houses are destroyed or their land confiscated for no obvious reason. Primarily, I haven't heard of any muslim country where the local people are driven out of their land to be replcaed by immigrants.
Of course not. Only trivial issues are hijacked, like their lives
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/882/fr2.htm
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/02/02/4809529-ap.html
http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=102146
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=5230
http://www.bosnewslife.com/news/3427-pakistan-christian-kidnapped-for-trying-to-ma
Their livelihoods
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/44202?eng=y
And their faith:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22993135/from/ET/
Such trivial issues for dhimmis, naturally. How could all this be avoided, one wonders? Of course! Conversion to islam! It's the only thing that makes sense! There's no other alternative. What's that? Peaceful tolerance and coexistance? What are you, some kind of islamophobe? Of course islamic sociality is peaceful and tolerant. They still have their lives, don't they? Except where they don't.
And for my dearest hypewaders, as a (much belated but enthusiastically enjoined) Valentine's Day gift:
Q 9: 29 "until they feel themselves subdued". Now why does that ring a bell?
What a thing, religious literalism. All or nothing, to some people's minds.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2008/882/fr2.htm
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/02/02/4809529-ap.html
http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=102146
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=5230
http://www.bosnewslife.com/news/3427-pakistan-christian-kidnapped-for-trying-to-ma
Their livelihoods
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/44202?eng=y
And their faith:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22993135/from/ET/
Such trivial issues for dhimmis, naturally. How could all this be avoided, one wonders? Of course! Conversion to islam! It's the only thing that makes sense! There's no other alternative. What's that? Peaceful tolerance and coexistance? What are you, some kind of islamophobe? Of course islamic sociality is peaceful and tolerant. They still have their lives, don't they? Except where they don't.
And for my dearest hypewaders, as a (much belated but enthusiastically enjoined) Valentine's Day gift:
Q 9: 29 "until they feel themselves subdued". Now why does that ring a bell?
What a thing, religious literalism. All or nothing, to some people's minds.
I haven't heard of any muslim countries where non-muslims are beaten out of their homes and their houses are destroyed or their land confiscated for no obvious reason.
The Israeli Palestinian struggle is not a religious based struggle, its about land. Your claim would be tantamount to me claiming Palestinians target Israelis because they are Jews. They don't, they target Israeli's because Israel is their enemy.
Back to Israel itself, it is a Jewish state (much like many Muslim states consider themselves such) with full personal and cultural rights to its minorities, much more than most if not all Muslim countries. Read up on the Bahai's in Iran, or the Cop's in Egypt, you will understand.
Primarily, I haven't heard of any muslim country where the local people are driven out of their land to be replcaed by immigrants.
Read up on the Iranian settlement policy of its western regions. over 1 million of their arab minority has been driven out and replaced by parsi settlers.
The Israeli Palestinian struggle is not a religious based struggle, its about land. Your claim would be tantamount to me claiming Palestinians target Israelis because they are Jews. They don't, they target Israeli's because Israel is their enemy.
Back to Israel itself, it is a Jewish state (much like many Muslim states consider themselves such) with full personal and cultural rights to its minorities, much more than most if not all Muslim countries. Read up on the Bahai's in Iran, or the Cop's in Egypt, you will understand.
Primarily, I haven't heard of any muslim country where the local people are driven out of their land to be replcaed by immigrants.
Read up on the Iranian settlement policy of its western regions. over 1 million of their arab minority has been driven out and replaced by parsi settlers.
Sam's cut-and-paste propaganda is built on half-truths and selective quotations.
Here's something that Sam cut out of the article he/she posted:
"An IDF source said the soldiers at the checkpoint were unaware of the woman's circumstances because her family did not inform the local military coordination office for humanitarian cases of the ambulance's arrival. "If we had been made aware of the situation a path could have been cleared for the ambulance through heavy traffic in the area which was caused by a high alert around Tul Karm," the source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters. "
Here's something that Sam cut out of the article he/she posted:
"An IDF source said the soldiers at the checkpoint were unaware of the woman's circumstances because her family did not inform the local military coordination office for humanitarian cases of the ambulance's arrival. "If we had been made aware of the situation a path could have been cleared for the ambulance through heavy traffic in the area which was caused by a high alert around Tul Karm," the source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters. "
Quick! Put me in touch with the Military Coordination Office for Humanitarian Cases, Axes. I've got a lot of news for them.
At least try and inform them what the sirens and lights mean on an ambulance.
At least try and inform them what the sirens and lights mean on an ambulance.
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