Yeah, why would anyone want to live in what is arguably the oldest city in the world?
News From Gaza
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Yeah, why would anyone want to live in what is arguably the oldest city in the world?
I don't know, SAM, but some people seem to want to live in shit-holes. What can I say.
I mean, even India, that land of milk n' honey that you so love, there are millions who live in that shit-hole slum area Dahravi or some name like that. And it's right smack in the middle of the largest, richest city in all of India! Strange, ain't it?
Baron Max
About that 'Israeli Blockade'....
Hamas lets pilgrims out for hajj
28/ 11/ 2008
GAZA, November 28 (RIA Novosti) - Hamas authorities that control the Gaza Strip have lifted their ban on hajj pilgrims leaving the Palestinian enclave with documentation issued through the Fatah-controlled West Bank.
"We intend to help remove all obstacles in the way of pilgrims and we do not object to those who have been registered in Ramallah leaving the Gaza Strip," Gaza's de-facto Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh said.
Radio reports quoted eyewitnesses as saying earlier in the day that police in Gaza had cordoned off roads to the Egyptian border and were seizing travel documents issued by the Saudis through the Palestinian National Authority.
The Palestinian National Authority controls the West Bank and does not recognize Hamas as the legitimate ruler of the Gaza Strip.
A spokesman for the Gaza Interior Ministry, Ihab al-Ghusain, said that residents in Gaza who had applied for hajj documents via Hamas had been turned down by the Saudi authorities.
Egyptian authorities announced on Thursday that They were reopening the Rafah border crossing with Gaza to allow Palestinian hajj pilgrims to make their way to Saudi Arabia and Mecca....."
http://en.rian.ru/world/20081128/118604222.html
Hamas lets pilgrims out for hajj
28/ 11/ 2008
GAZA, November 28 (RIA Novosti) - Hamas authorities that control the Gaza Strip have lifted their ban on hajj pilgrims leaving the Palestinian enclave with documentation issued through the Fatah-controlled West Bank.
"We intend to help remove all obstacles in the way of pilgrims and we do not object to those who have been registered in Ramallah leaving the Gaza Strip," Gaza's de-facto Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh said.
Radio reports quoted eyewitnesses as saying earlier in the day that police in Gaza had cordoned off roads to the Egyptian border and were seizing travel documents issued by the Saudis through the Palestinian National Authority.
The Palestinian National Authority controls the West Bank and does not recognize Hamas as the legitimate ruler of the Gaza Strip.
A spokesman for the Gaza Interior Ministry, Ihab al-Ghusain, said that residents in Gaza who had applied for hajj documents via Hamas had been turned down by the Saudi authorities.
Egyptian authorities announced on Thursday that They were reopening the Rafah border crossing with Gaza to allow Palestinian hajj pilgrims to make their way to Saudi Arabia and Mecca....."
http://en.rian.ru/world/20081128/118604222.html
Israel enforces the creation of future social ills for Israeli 'citizens'
Bedouin tribes in the Negev have been removed from their ancestral lands by a determined Israeli parliament and a compliant religiously defined justice system which declares Bedouin encampments illegal and shepherds the tribes into Israeli-built towns and villages. These resemble the sort of efforts made on behalf of Australian aboriginals, who have nothing to do in the purpose-built towns the Euro-centric Australian govt, wants them in. In Israel, the Bedouin are largely unemployed, are forcibly removed from 'illegal' settlements, and are 'required' to adapt to Israeli (i.e. Western European) ways of living. This means a dislocation, of course, from their ancient cultural traditions, the attendant breakdown of social structure, unemployment, boredom, crime, drug and alcohol use, and the usual dynamic seen anytime an ancient culture is systematically attacked by an external (well-meaning) culture.
Israel will have tens of thousands of 'semi-citizens' to deal with, who have been displaced into townships where, despite the modern state claiming it is trying to improve their lives, it does not afford them full citizenship, but mostly builds a place for them, transports them forcibly, and compels them to adapt (which they have trouble doing), and ignores their plight, mostly.
This is because Israel doesn't care about anyone unless they are Jewish. It doesn't care about Arab tribespeople who have lived in the desert for thousands of years, but decides they are 'better off' in a situation they decide is 'good' for them.
It doesn't care that it is creating a bigger problem that will come back to bite it in the ass one day. These people have been manipulated and coerced because Jews are so paranoid they think every Arab has to be made to live where it can keep an eye on them. This is the true rationale - creating space for European Jews by displacing as many Arabs as it can, by hiding them out of sight and out of mind. So they think - the dumbasses.
Bedouin tribes in the Negev have been removed from their ancestral lands by a determined Israeli parliament and a compliant religiously defined justice system which declares Bedouin encampments illegal and shepherds the tribes into Israeli-built towns and villages. These resemble the sort of efforts made on behalf of Australian aboriginals, who have nothing to do in the purpose-built towns the Euro-centric Australian govt, wants them in. In Israel, the Bedouin are largely unemployed, are forcibly removed from 'illegal' settlements, and are 'required' to adapt to Israeli (i.e. Western European) ways of living. This means a dislocation, of course, from their ancient cultural traditions, the attendant breakdown of social structure, unemployment, boredom, crime, drug and alcohol use, and the usual dynamic seen anytime an ancient culture is systematically attacked by an external (well-meaning) culture.
Israel will have tens of thousands of 'semi-citizens' to deal with, who have been displaced into townships where, despite the modern state claiming it is trying to improve their lives, it does not afford them full citizenship, but mostly builds a place for them, transports them forcibly, and compels them to adapt (which they have trouble doing), and ignores their plight, mostly.
This is because Israel doesn't care about anyone unless they are Jewish. It doesn't care about Arab tribespeople who have lived in the desert for thousands of years, but decides they are 'better off' in a situation they decide is 'good' for them.
It doesn't care that it is creating a bigger problem that will come back to bite it in the ass one day. These people have been manipulated and coerced because Jews are so paranoid they think every Arab has to be made to live where it can keep an eye on them. This is the true rationale - creating space for European Jews by displacing as many Arabs as it can, by hiding them out of sight and out of mind. So they think - the dumbasses.
I think that even under occupation, Americans would see that their familes were cared for before squandering all of the money on mortars, rockets, AK-47s and ammo!
If the Pals spent enough effort and money on build their power base, they'd be in a far better position from which to bargain or demand. As it is, the Pals are little more than fleas or gnats to the Israelis ...bothersome, but of little real consequence.
Baron Max
Israel is a free, democratic nation ...."Israel" doesn't do anything that it's citizens don't want to happen.
Doesn't care? Maybe Israel can see things far better than you ...but you're so egotistical that it's blinded you to other outcomes than your own bias.
Baron Max
I agree with most of your post, but not the parts I made bold. I think Israel is solving their Bedouin problem (by slow genocide) and that is hardly "well-meaning" but of course packaging this genocide as an effort to aid these primitive people have schooling, better health care, etc. is a smart cover for this genocide. To reduce the birth rate, men can leave for work or army service and they must as there are no jobs in the camps - only meager hand-out of food, which is strange to the Bedouins.
I posted earlier on this (after watching a CNN documentary showing the Israelis bulldozing down the crude huts the Bedouins built in the desert.
See: http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1843505&postcount=1169)
To make these less-nomadic / partially settled in desert Bedouins cease trying to farm, Israel sprays their crops with herbicides. Most have now given up and accepted their forced confinement in the "settlement camps," where they can neither farm nor even support a few animals with grass - as these sites were chosen for their poor soil and little available water. (Israel delivers some water by tank trucks.) Conditions in the camps are poor, but much better than the Nazis provided in their concentration camps, except perhaps psychologically as, unlike the Jews in Germany, the Bedouins are not adjusted to high density urban environments.
From post 790:
“…these smart people {The Israelis} learned how to get away with the extermination that the world was to "Never Again" let happen. Israel could and did exterminate the Negev Bedouins more quickly {than the Palestinians} (at least their culture has been exterminated even if only about 80% of the Bedouins are dead or dispersed to other lands, at present.) as they were already self-isolating and without any allies. …”
From post 768:
“…Clearly peace and security is not the current Israeli objective. Extermination of two different peoples appears to be, but the Israelis did learn from Hitler not to try to do it too quickly. Unless to a people so cut off from the rest of the world and modern communication that no one will notice. - I.e. the Negev Bedouins are being more quickly exterminated than the Palestinians and few are noticing, certainly no one is acting, not even saying "Never Again;" but if they did, the only meaning it could possibly have is: "Never again will there be Negev Bedouins" or any restoration of their already destroyed culture. That culture began long before Abraham founded the Jewish one. …”
From post 764:
“…Israeli's extermination of that {Bedouin} culture is already complete and only about 10% of the former population is still alive in the seven concentration camp "cities." Israel has forced the majority of Negev Bedouins into these camp/cities and the surrounding guards prevent most from escaping back to the desert. Some do slip out past the guards on moon less nights and try to live the old way in the desert: Subsistence farming with a few animals, but Israel routinely bulldozes their simple shacks into rubble and has been spraying their gardens with herbicide since 2002, so their number are also dwindling. (Some even “voluntarily” return to the camp/cities when hungry enough and their animals are dead from lack of grass. It is amazing how effective modern herbicides are.) In about 15 years more the "final solution" to the Bedouins occupying land Israelis want and are setting in will be complete. - I.e. all the Bedouins will have fled or be dead.
Hitler was not able to do as effective job as Israel is doing on the Negev Bedouins; however, don't expect me to congratulate Israel when Israel’s “final solution” to the Negev Bedouins problem is 100% done. (Morally these exterminations are the same.)
I think it reasonable for the Palestinians to expect the same, especially as they, unlike the Bedouins, are throwing more than a few stones as their contribution to the chain of retaliations. It will take longer, as there are more Palestinians, and they have allies in other countries, but in 100 years or so the present policy of High Kill ratios, cutting off energy for water pumps, etc. may work as a “final solution” to the “Palestinian problem.” (Assuming, which I doubt, that none of their allies supplies them with a very-lethal, biological aerosol of a highly contagious agents first. If that should happen, it probably means the extermination of the Israelis. – Their low birth rate and lower numbers decreases the chance some genetic immune/ resistant Israelis will survive to repopulate.) …”
From post 802:
“…The Negev Bedouin's claim to the Negev (and Sinai, before being forced out of it) land has been unintentionally supported by Israeli excavation for new Israeli settler homes. That digging discovered a Bedouin graveyard more than 5000 years old. And thus documented an “occupational claim” approximately 100 times older that Israel has existed, but still there were no recorded deeds or other records on file in Israel, so the Bedouins did not own the land the new Israeli settlers were building their home on from the Israeli POV. …”
I am not “anti-jewish” but strongly disagree with many policies of the state of Israel, as do some Jews. I have suggested alternative defensive means* to protect ALL Israelis instead of Israel’s High-Kill ratio policy, which needs to permit a few Israelis to be killed annually by the terrorist.
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*See: http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1124159&postcount=115
Now I will return to my mainly lurking mode.
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A revealing sort of statement from someone so egotistical they think they can say something like this and not say anything about themselves.Baron Max said:
An egotistical wannabe. You probably want to have an ego, but instead you have to invent an idea of one.
As for "a free, democratic nation", you left off the "for Jews only" bit at the end? What were you, er, thinking?
ummm...that makes no sense whatsoever.
So that cannot include any Palestinian less than 50 years old. That is an interesting proposition.
You can't kick someone out of a place they never were.
Actually that's 60 years, not 50, and only a few thousand real refugees remain.
Israel's "Law of Return" is Not an International Right, it's an INTERNAL INVITATION.
When the Palestinians get a state. They can invite all Palestinians (including the vast amount of Bogus ones) to come to their new state.
I'm sure many will love Gaza City... even the West bankers whose families Never lived there [either] but will have a 'right' to live in that part of the country.
as if the whole arid area is that much different two miles away.. and as if the 4 Million descendants of 600,000 refugees (that's some israeli "Genocide" eh) wouldn't have had Or moved at least a few miles anyway!
Israel's "Law of Return" is Not an International Right, it's an INTERNAL INVITATION.
When the Palestinians get a state. They can invite all Palestinians (including the vast amount of Bogus ones) to come to their new state.
I'm sure many will love Gaza City... even the West bankers whose families Never lived there [either] but will have a 'right' to live in that part of the country.
as if the whole arid area is that much different two miles away.. and as if the 4 Million descendants of 600,000 refugees (that's some israeli "Genocide" eh) wouldn't have had Or moved at least a few miles anyway!
^ Incredi.bel rationalization ^
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