New York Open Gay Public High School

static76

The Man, The Myth, The Legend
Registered Senior Member
A small alternative public school program has been expanded into a full-fledged school for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students.

The Harvey Milk High School, an expansion of a 1984 city program consisting of two small classrooms for gay students, will enroll about 100 students and will open in the fall.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,93060,00.html

Should a publically funded school be allowed to only accept gay students? I feel bad for them if they are picked on, but that's a fact of life in high school for many who don't fall into this category.

I'm really worried that some Christian and other groups will take this as an opportunity to open publically funded Christian schools and the like. Once we okay for this school, we'll have to for others.
 
Last edited:
on a similar topic, i seem to remember some time in the past hearing a news story about a school forbiding the formation of a gay student union or some such, on the grounds that the school said its not its place to endorce sexuality of any sort. Thats a fairly logical standpoint, but then again what the hell is the prom all about?
 
I'm not worried about the Christians

I'm more worried about a philosophical return to segregation. At present, I don't see the long-term benefit. Admittedly, it sounds like a good idea in the short term in order to give gay students a place to normalize within their educational experience, but the long-term potential of a return to segregation nags at me.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
A school like this might cause more problems than it solves, lesbians/gays/transgendered people going to normal public schools in the area are probably going to have this thrown in thier faces "Theres places for people like you" kind of stuff.

But really why would you think a place like this flat out shouldnt get public dollars? Does everyone in the public have to have this problem in order for it to get public money? Well not everyone has down syndrom, or autism but they get public money and special schools, because they face challenges that other students do not.

The challenge faced by homosexuals and transgendered students isnt quite the same as those faced by autistic or dissabled children. Thier challenge is social rejection and physical violence from other students. Put them in a situation with other children like them and problem solved, right? Is this not a benifit for the students? for the public?

From a CNN.COM article on the story:
State Conservative Party Chairman Mike Long criticized the creation of the school.

"Is there a different way to teach homosexuals? Is there gay math? This is wrong," Long said. "There's no reason these children should be treated separately."

i would like to see somone challange him to have his personal items stolen, strangers harass him, and physical harm done to him over a number of weeks and see how well he does on regularly administered math tests.
 
Re: I'm not worried about the Christians

Originally posted by tiassa
I'm more worried about a philosophical return to segregation. At present, I don't see the long-term benefit. Admittedly, it sounds like a good idea in the short term in order to give gay students a place to normalize within their educational experience, but the long-term potential of a return to segregation nags at me.
I think you make a good point about segregation here. With the push from the right for school vouchers, and the movement from Libertarians and the far right to abolish the Board of Education, I fear where this may lead.
Originally posted by SpyMoose
But really why would you think a place like this flat out shouldnt get public dollars? Does everyone in the public have to have this problem in order for it to get public money? Well not everyone has down syndrom, or autism but they get public money and special schools, because they face challenges that other students do not.
Publically funded schools should include everyone. Except in the extreme cases of the mentally challenged where there is a different learning curve. EVERY student has to deal with crap, that's the way of the World.
The challenge faced by homosexuals and transgendered students isnt quite the same as those faced by autistic or dissabled children.
True.
Thier challenge is social rejection and physical violence from other students.
The same could be said of fat students, nerds, ugly students, kids with bad acne, etc.
Put them in a situation with other children like them and problem solved, right? Is this not a benifit for the students? for the public?
NO. New clicks will be formed and a social hierarchy will develop to seperate students just like any other school. Gay and lesbian kids can be just as cruel I'm sure as any other one.
 
I have no problem supporting special counciling. Reality is that students have to deal with retarded students and special education students at school and in the work place all the time.

I'm not sure what your problem is with partially funded christian schools. Should a child's parents have to pay the taxes for public school and pay for a private school education?
 
Re: Re: I'm not worried about the Christians

Originally posted by static76

The same could be said of fat students, nerds, ugly students, kids with bad acne, etc.

are you really going to take the position that being gay in highschool has the same severity as having acne?
 
Depends. Most kids in school don't shout out about how they are gay or straight. So most of the time no one is even aware that they are gay. However I could see some classes like gym being problem but all they probably will see is a man's underware.
 
Re: Re: Re: I'm not worried about the Christians

Originally posted by SpyMoose
are you really going to take the position that being gay in highschool has the same severity as having acne?
Yes. It really depends on the school, but bad acne can have just as bad if not worst the effect. Out here in LA it isn't a big deal at all if your gay, but I have seen "acne challenged" kids get tortured by other students.

A deeper question I have is how does it benefit gay students to be seperated from others? How will they handle the World after highschool, when they are faced with prejudice?
 
has no one realized that there are single sex schools? segregation. my brother went to a school that will only accept boys even though i wanted to go. if there are single sex schools why not single sexuality? it's not about being taught differently, it's about offering a comfortable environment.

Is there a different way to teach girls? Is there girl math?
 
My bet is that those single-sex schools won't get public funds. Not sure on the law here though.
 
remember that kid in kansas who got tied to a fence and beaten to death for having bad acne?
 
Well first off I can certainly understand the shock and disgust about such a school being opened. I think that Tiassa is over reacting a bit when she shouts about a return to segregation. The distinction in this case, is that this isn't going to be a school that they ship all gay students off to, but instead is simply a voluntarily chosen alternative to a normal public school.

Another issues is public funding. Frankly I don't think that a school like this should be getting very much, if any public money, it's just not a complete necessity, and I've got to admit that the idea does sound a bit frivolous. Remember that despite the fact that this school is called a "Public School" doesn't actually mean that it's even getting any public money, that just means that it has a public charter, and that it has to live up to certain standards and follow certain rules. After all if other private institutions such as the boyscouts, and even public establishments like the military can get all the leeway they like in banning homosexuals, why the hell can't a privately, or even slightly funded public institution be "gays only"?


Reading through an article on CNN.com it sounds to me as if this school is acctualy privately funded:

The school is an expansion of a two-classroom public school program that began in 1984. A gay-rights youth advocacy group, the Hetrick-Martin Institute, has managed and financed the program since its inception.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/07/28/gay.school.ap/index.html

So, if this is a privately funded institute, then I've got absolutely no problem with it admiting only homosexuals. If it's getting public money then they should still admit anyone, even if their primary aim is to cater to homosexuals. Why any straight kid would want to go to this school, of course is quite beyond me, maybe he's just a tease?

Now, the reasons that a homosexual student might want to go to an all gay school seems pretty obvious to me. Yes, it's true that everyone gets picked on in school, but there is a very large difference. First off, for fat/geeky/blemished skinned kids the insults really come only from other students, for a homosexual student, they'll certainly get quite a bit from other students (provided their sexuality isn't a secret) but usually a geeky fat pimplepuss isn't going to have to wory about similar problems of judgement when it comes to the parents of his tormenters (which could well come into play) or even faculty of the school having problems with them. Or put another way, there is no religious movement designed to shun the uglies over at the unpopular table. No one is going to tie you to the bumper of their car and drag you behind it for a few miles, or tie you to a post and beat you to death because you like to spend your lunch period reading in the library if you get my drift. If you thought that you were a social pariah for playing Magic: The Gathering, just count your lucky stars that you weren't barred from attending prom because of the gender of the person you wanted to bring as a date.

Anyway, the fact that this school exists is a reflection of a stratification in society which already exists, it's catering to that stratification, which is kind of a scary thing, but when it comes right down to it, in my heart of hearts I know that if there was a school like this near me back when I was of high-schoolin' age I have to admit that I'd probably prefer to attend it rather than a normal public high-school. My little sister (currently going to the same high-school I went to when I was her age) gets enough unsolicited religious arguments about her being a vegetarian for Gods sake, I'd hate to think of how things would have gone if I were openly gay at the time.

This brings up yet another possible positive point, it could encourage some young homosexuals to come out, and avoid all the crazying effects of being in the closet. That'll really screw with you, believe you me, there's a good reason why the suicide rate for homosexual teens is so much higher than for heterosexuals.

I think that it was in poor taste that this school be named after Harvey Milk. As mentioned before this school is catering to a sort of stratification which is already there. . . but do they have to be so blatant about it? The name seems to be almost a warning to the children "Be careful chillins' the straight man wants to shoot you!" that's what it says to me, anyway, and is not what I'd chose to name a school who's aim is supposedly to provide an environment where the kids don't have to deal with all that nastyness.

All and all, though I have to admit that it reminds me a bit of the X-men, and rightly so, it was all one big metaphor anyway.
 
hmm. i went to a higschool that was publicly chartered and privately funded myself. The article did mention an orginization that had been puting this together, i wonder if they are footing the bill.
 
have you ever BEEN in a school?

do you know what the MOST used way of saying something is bad is?

ITS GAY

i herd that from the time i started year 7 till i finished year 12

can you POSSABLY imagin how much that screws up someone who is bi when they cant admit it to themselves because "gay = bad"?

except for what tiassa said about segregation i think go them
 
Meh. Interesting. Only, they probably won't get the blessing of the RCC. Ohhhhh that would be MOST unfortunate. :rolleyes:
 
How is it possibly a good idea to go back to segregation?? Personally, I think this whole concept works entirely against the gay community.

-- Hm, how can we hope to make gay life easier? I know! We'll take all gays out of public schooling, that way straight kids won't ever, ever have to get use to the idea of some kids being gay!! --

This is much more of a detriment than an aid.
 
Again, quit just shouting out segregation, it doesn't apply here! This isn't a separate but equal mentality, it's not even a "keep 'em separate" mentality. This is a completely voluntary program which students can choose to enroll in.

So in other words, if a gay youth happens to feel that he'd rather end up killing himself than going to another year of a school in which his peers are entrenched in a culture of hating his sexuality, he has the option to go somewhere else with a more inviting atmosphere.

This doesn't mean the segregation of public schools, there are still going to be gay kids going to regular public schools in NY, but those who prefer not to have to be subjected to that won't have to be.

If you’re upset that now gay children and straight children won’t intermingle and be all happy and friendly in public schools anymore, well guess what, that wasn’t going to happen anyway! As much as I’m sure everyone here, myself included, would like to shout about getting youth to be ok with the idea of homosexuals being the only way to really shift the cultural paradigm in order to be more accepting of homosexuals, I don’t think that anyone can really make a case that forcing some kids to be a part of that is going to work.
 
Your missing the point Mystech. I have no problem with a PRIVATELY funded high school like this. But when public funds are used it gets scary. What's to stop people from setting up a public all-Christian school that offers kids school pray and a religious education they can't get with non-Christian students? Let's say there's a poilitician wants a Christian school in Kentucky to get public funding. How can we argue against that, yet support an all gay school.

When you have a guy like Bush in office, and a large supply of politicians and officials with their own agendas, this could be a bad trend.
 
Originally posted by static76
Your missing the point Mystech. I have no problem with a PRIVATELY funded high school like this. But when public funds are used it gets scary. What's to stop people from setting up a public all-Christian school that offers kids school pray and a religious education they can't get with non-Christian students? Let's say there's a poilitician wants a Christian school in Kentucky to get public funding. How can we argue against that, yet support an all gay school.

Doesn't bush already have programs like this enacted? What was all that about his funding for "faith based initiatives" and the like?

Also, do we know conclusively that this school is getting public money just yet? That CNN article gave the impression that a private group was footing the bill for all of this.
 
Back
Top