New Lucid Crossroads

[Pantalimon]

The Lucid Crossroads is a mind conjured meeting place for lucid dream,ers and astral projectors, its been completely rewritten and re illustrated on its new domain.

I hope there are many pages of intrest to those on this forum, an extensive links page, a Mayan Dreamspell page, Dowloads page with desktops and screensavers for LDers and the Lucid Dojo for those wishing to train in martial arts whilst lucid.


Cheers Pantalimon

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I am going to exercise my awesome psychic lucid astral projecting powers
and predict that the links lead to many fantastic claims and not a shred of
proof. Anyone care to challenge my awesome paranormal prediction?

 

[Pantalimon]

Wow.....er....oh hang on.... no....actually just coming over the hyperQuantum(gotta throw in Quantum)thirdeyedimentionalwave broadcast they didn't..... Sorry crunchy I think you must be confusing this site with a Sylvia Browne advice line... either that or not bothing to look

Yes... here it comes over the hyperQuantumthirdeyedimentionalwave Crunchy Cat, you didn't bother reading anything... well thanks for coming


P.s Tune in to your hyperQuantumthirdeyedimentionalwave Crunchy Cat, let go, hug a dolphin then you too can find out there are no claims on the site not backed up without the big stick of science and anything else that does "speculate" that science might not be be a fully complete known system makes it clear that its not been "scientifically" proved. Much of the rest of the site is made up of mind preparatory images and text to aid lucid dreaming, which is as I'm sure a cool cat like you self knows, is science fact. Is that goot Ja?

Sorry I have to admit to pressing the Windows@ sarcasm button by mistake so the serious answer was "I sorry old chap but I would like to point out you are mistaken." Hope that clears everything up.

 

[alain]

chrunchy cat, you're too cynical about lucid dreaming, lucid dreaming belongs in either biology or psychology, its only when you get to astral projection that you find anything that hasnt been proved

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Wow.....er....oh hang on.... no....actually just coming over the hyperQuantum(gotta throw in Quantum)thirdeyedimentionalwave broadcast they didn't..... Sorry crunchy I think you must be confusing this site with a Sylvia Browne advice line... either that or not bothing to look

Yes... here it comes over the hyperQuantumthirdeyedimentionalwave Crunchy Cat, you didn't bother reading anything... well thanks for coming


P.s Tune in to your hyperQuantumthirdeyedimentionalwave Crunchy Cat, let go, hug a dolphin then you too can find out there are no claims on the site not backed up without the big stick of science and anything else that does "speculate" that science might not be be a fully complete known system makes it clear that its not been "scientifically" proved. Much of the rest of the site is made up of mind preparatory images and text to aid lucid dreaming, which is as I'm sure a cool cat like you self knows, is science fact. Is that goot Ja?

Sorry I have to admit to pressing the Windows@ sarcasm button by mistake so the serious answer was "I sorry old chap but I would like to point out you are mistaken." Hope that clears everything up.

I found it interesting the way the site 'suggests' the existence of Astral
Projection and Shared Dreams as being real but continually points out there
is no proof for them... there was a blurb where the site's author stated that
the whole reason for starting the site was because of his Shared Dream
experiences.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

chrunchy cat, you're too cynical about lucid dreaming, lucid dreaming belongs in either biology or psychology, its only when you get to astral projection that you find anything that hasnt been proved

Not at all Alain. I've been a heavy lucid dreamer all my life. I've also had alot
of dream content that appears to be vastly different than what I have seen
published (or talked about). One of the reasons why I browse this sub-forum
is to try to understand why that may be (I don't have so much as a hint
of any underlying reason yet).

Anyhow, two thumbs up to lucid dreaming. It's a real event and it's bad-ass.
My cynacism is aimed towards sites that make claims about Astral Projection,
Telepathy, Telekensis, Clairvoyancy, Indigo Children, Crystal Children,
Divination, etc. (you get the point). Even if there are 'disclaimers' stating
there is no 'scientific proof', a claim that asserts itself as being true is no
easier to swallow.

 

[Pantalimon]

I've also had alot of dream content that appears to be vastly different than what I have seen
published (or talked about). One of the reasons why I browse this sub-forum
is to try to understand why that may be (I don't have so much as a hint
of any underlying reason yet).

Well I've had an intrest in lucid dreaming for a long time so you can ask me if you like I might be able help or point you to the right help. (and I'm actually not being sarcastic, although watch your head in the rest of this reply!)

My cynacism is aimed towards sites that make claims about Astral Projection,Telepathy, Telekensis, Clairvoyancy, Indigo Children, Crystal Children, Divination, etc. (you get the point). Even if there are 'disclaimers' stating there is no 'scientific proof', a claim that asserts itself as being true is no easier to swallow.

Look I'm sure your some lovely 53 year old bloke with the wife and the kids and not the angry teen who got the wrong idea of what the definition of being a skeptic should be, which is what you sound like. To me though your post just makes you sound like someone who couldn't care less about what others have to say on any of those "subjects," your so concerned about! Your mind is I imagine just as set as those that claim these subjects are fact, and I bet you might just have as shakey reasons for your own "faith" as they do.

I might have you wrong you might be just an extreamly hardcore version of a good skeptic. I bet you cruise the Scientific American boards pointing out the error of anyones ways who claim to belive in the duality of light. You'll be there saying "show me the proof man you ain't got no proof!" In this way I could respect your version of skeptism, fair and hard handed to both parties.

I don't respect people who think that to be a skeptic is to ridicule anothers view, thats "so" easy Crunchy mate. There are so many bonkers people out there beleiving they are from Pleiades or something that being a skeptic who just takes the p***. Very easy I could do what you do no problem.

I found it interesting the way the site 'suggests' the existence of Astral Projection and Shared Dreams as being real but continually points out there
is no proof for them... there was a blurb where the site's author stated that
the whole reason for starting the site was because of his Shared Dream
experiences.

The site discusses Astral projection and shared dreaming mate, what do you expect? What? I just don't understand? It could just read, astral projection is just a load of hippy thinking and shared dreaming just a load of wishful thinking. End of story....

Why is it wrong for a site to disucss the knowledge that people have built up about say astral projection. Even if that knowledge might be mistaken, for example people thinking they are leaving the body when in fact they just lucid dreaming. The site says its not "scientifically" proven and thats just a fact and the rest is upto the person reading the rest. Maybe you might have a case in your ridicule war against a site "claiming" to make you astral project within the month for only $99! This isn't such a site mate.

The shared dream was my'n, as I say on the site you either have to think I'm lieing, or it was a coincidence, very rare but a coincidence, and I don't frankly care. I'm not going to invite Randi round to camp out at my'n for the next year in the hope of another one or something and I don't claim to make your k*** fall off via the internet, no matter how much I'd like that mystical power.

Cheers

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Well I've had an intrest in lucid dreaming for a long time so you can ask me if you like I might be able help or point you to the right help. (and I'm actually not being sarcastic, although watch your head in the rest of this reply!)

Sure, let's start with a dream I experienced (I don't think it was lucid)
when I was between 3-5 years of age. I was a mathematical construct in
a two dimensional world of geometry that was 'alive'. The world was bright,
lacked color, and contained an atmosphere of extreme caring, tranquility, and
order. 'Time' moved both ways for all 'inhabitants' and could be thusly
modified by any 'inidividual'. Let me know what you think.

Look I'm sure your some lovely 53 year old bloke with the wife and the kids and not the angry teen who got the wrong idea of what the definition of being a skeptic should be, which is what you sound like. To me though your post just makes you sound like someone who couldn't care less about what others have to say on any of those "subjects," your so concerned about! Your mind is I imagine just as set as those that claim these subjects are fact, and I bet you might just have as shakey reasons for your own "faith" as they do.

I'm actually neither ... but anyhow if I didn't care then why would I post
in the first place (or anyone else for that matter)? To put my original
response in context, take a look at the last 'n' claims made on the board.
Even if there is a shred of indirect / unrelated fact on any websites that
these claims reference, it's really a handicap to propogate such information
as it blurs the line between fantasy and reality. I can promise you, I don't
have 'faith' (i.e. unconditional trust that an expectation is going to be met by
::fill in the blank:: no matter how realistic or ridiculous).

I might have you wrong you might be just an extreamly hardcore version of a good skeptic. I bet you cruise the Scientific American boards pointing out the error of anyones ways who claim to belive in the duality of light. You'll be there saying "show me the proof man you ain't got no proof!" In this way I could respect your version of skeptism, fair and hard handed to both parties.

I really find the word 'skeptic' a little too confining. I prefer to exercise a
simple philosophy of not accepting fantastic claims as true without supporting
evidence. I don't correct Scientific American boards . If you are interested
in some Hard Core-nees then I would recommend chattin' with (Q).

I don't respect people who think that to be a skeptic is to ridicule anothers view, thats "so" easy Crunchy mate. There are so many bonkers people out there beleiving they are from Pleiades or something that being a skeptic who just takes the p***. Very easy I could do what you do no problem.

I prefer to ridicule content. I recall some post where someone was trying
to assert 'etherial orgasms' as being fact... and... well... yeah.

The site discusses Astral projection and shared dreaming mate, what do you expect? What? I just don't understand? It could just read, astral projection is just a load of hippy thinking and shared dreaming just a load of wishful thinking. End of story....

My first post outlined my 'expectations'. They were reasonably met.

Why is it wrong for a site to disucss the knowledge that people have built up about say astral projection. Even if that knowledge might be mistaken, for example people thinking they are leaving the body when in fact they just lucid dreaming. The site says its not "scientifically" proven and thats just a fact and the rest is upto the person reading the rest. Maybe you might have a case in your ridicule war against a site "claiming" to make you astral project within the month for only $99! This isn't such a site mate.

It's not 'right' or 'wrong' (which consequently are words expressing vast
subjective interpretations). I think it's great if people can discuss experience.
I think it's cognitive suicide to invent fantasy (even out of valid experience)
and assert it as fact. If this particular sight talked about weird experiences
rather than asserting D&D fantasy (ex. Astral Projection) as fact then you
have something of value.

The shared dream was my'n, as I say on the site you either have to think I'm lieing, or it was a coincidence, very rare but a coincidence, and I don't frankly care. I'm not going to invite Randi round to camp out at my'n for the next year in the hope of another one or something and I don't claim to make your k*** fall off via the internet, no matter how much I'd like that mystical power.

Of course you care. Don't be silly. If you didn't you would not have bothered
posting. Forget what I think about your dream. What do you think about it at
this very moment?

 

[alain]

"Not at all Alain. I've been a heavy lucid dreamer all my life. I've also had alot
of dream content that appears to be vastly different than what I have seen
published (or talked about). One of the reasons why I browse this sub-forum
is to try to understand why that may be (I don't have so much as a hint
of any underlying reason yet)."

coolies, ive had a few lucid dreams, almost had one last night, im like 'hey, thats not possible! this must be a dream, but it doesnt feel like a dream *back to normal dream*' damn my stupidity when asleep

 

[Pantalimon]

Crunchy re : your experience of 3-5, I used to have similarish experiences, my focus would drift off as I zen'd out looking at something (say the carpet) They I would be seeing a 2-D pattern (no colour) that seemed to form a rolling landscape, evently my room would be gone and I was flying over this landscape. I don't actually remember what was at the end but I know it was either fun/good cause I would be like, "great" when ever I got the feeling it would happen again.

This sort of thing is reported as part of shammanism and magic ritual/witch craft etc and is quite a normal part of the hypnogogic experience. I can't tell you anything specifically useful though apart from this book "Hypnogogia" by Andreas Mavromatis describes some very common hypnogoic experiences. This book might help as well Surfing through Hyperspace" by Clifford A. Pickover, its talks about the higher dimentions, in science so you don't have to throw your dummy out of the pram. There is alot of intrest to do with lucid dreaming as the properties of the higher dims match alot the recognised elements encounted in experiences such as yours and others.

Now back to putting each other down and picking holes in each others posts---

but anyhow if I didn't care then why would I post
in the first place

Your first post was

I am going to exercise my awesome psychic lucid astral projecting powers and predict that the links lead to many fantastic claims and not a shred of proof. Anyone care to challenge my awesome paranormal prediction?

Now this says all you care about is stifeling the views of others, which, it turns out you don't even bother reading?

I can promise you, I don't
have 'faith' (i.e. unconditional trust that an expectation is going to be met by
::fill in the blank:: no matter how realistic or ridiculous).

Ok lets test this! Crunchy cat says: I can promise you, I don't
have 'faith' (i.e. unconditional trust) that an expectation is going to be met no matter how realistic or ridiculous.... but I will always say that any claims/musings or websites pertaining to such, about yet scientifically unproven phemona are bull and will attempt to poke fun with out even bothing to look. Sorry my man but THAT is Blind faith.

it's really a handicap to propogate such information
as it blurs the line between fantasy and reality

Transfer this arguement back 20 years and you'd be all upset cause you say "Lucid dreaming is pure fantasy! Don't come hear propogating your lies and bluring the line between reality and fantasy".... 20 years down the road and you cannot say that.

Face it Crunchy Cat, on one side is someone who has a mind capable of the flexibility to not just pre judge an issue without reading any of what is being discussed and on the other is a person who has blind faith in their own position and who does not even need to read the material! Are you quite sure you don't have some sort of supernatural power? The ability to have a positive/negative reaction to soemthing unseen sounds pretty dam psychic to me!

I really find the word 'skeptic' a little too confining.

I think the word "entrenched" might be a little too confining for you my freind!

think it's great if people can discuss experience.
I think it's cognitive suicide to invent fantasy (even out of valid experience)
and assert it as fact. If this particular sight talked about weird experiences
rather than asserting D&D fantasy (ex. Astral Projection) as fact then you
have something of value.

You just use the word fantasy yet your just assuming AP to be fantasy, its your opinion. In an earlier post you said

My cynacism is aimed towards sites that make claims about Astral Projection,
Telepathy, Telekensis, Clairvoyancy, Indigo Children, Crystal Children,
Divination, etc. (you get the point). Even if there are 'disclaimers' stating
there is no 'scientific proof', a claim that asserts itself as being true is no
easier to swallow.

Yet on the thread "Why no one steps forward" you haven't even bothered to find out anything about Ganzfeld experiments which are a key scientific tool of investigation to some of those subjects you claim to know FOR A FACT do not exist.

You have to admit you are just coming from one side of the arguement and cannot see round the otherside, facts or no facts science or no science?

Of course you care. Don't be silly. If you didn't you would not have bothered
posting. Forget what I think about your dream. What do you think about it at
this very moment?

I posted not to glory in my own shared dream or anything, so it still stands, I really do not care who believes or disbelieves me. I know its never going to be proved, so I just don't worry about it, only two people know the truth and the others can think I'm some sort of gifted psi prodigy and the others can think I'm just spinning a chance event or lieing. Not a problem mate :bugeye:

 

[Pantalimon]

coolies, ive had a few lucid dreams, almost had one last night, im like 'hey, thats not possible! this must be a dream, but it doesnt feel like a dream *back to normal dream*' damn my stupidity when asleep

Although I'm getting bogged down deflecting the Cats mud sligging, one of the resons the site exists is to excite stimulate minds who might not find it very easy to LD. I often find when I'm excited about trying something new in an LD I tend to LD more frequently and higher.

Its a real mind trip to do something very specific like visit the Crossroads dream side.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

"Not at all Alain. I've been a heavy lucid dreamer all my life. I've also had alot
of dream content that appears to be vastly different than what I have seen
published (or talked about). One of the reasons why I browse this sub-forum
is to try to understand why that may be (I don't have so much as a hint
of any underlying reason yet)."

coolies, ive had a few lucid dreams, almost had one last night, im like 'hey, thats not possible! this must be a dream, but it doesnt feel like a dream *back to normal dream*' damn my stupidity when asleep

So close . It's not uncommon for dreams to become 'un'-lucid and
potentially 're'-lucid throught a dream. I have had quite a few successful
methods of becoming lucid in dreams. My most common one is to simply
question what I am perceiving (this is the result of a lifetime of training
myself to ask the question when any doubt arises). The exact question
that I use is:

"Am I dreaming?"

And the answer is an automatic "yes" by virtue of even asking the question
in the first place... and then... instantaenous lucidity!

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Crunchy re : your experience of 3-5, I used to have similarish experiences, my focus would drift off as I zen'd out looking at something (say the carpet) They I would be seeing a 2-D pattern (no colour) that seemed to form a rolling landscape, evently my room would be gone and I was flying over this landscape. I don't actually remember what was at the end but I know it was either fun/good cause I would be like, "great" when ever I got the feeling it would happen again.:

Interesting! Thanks for sharing it. The 'similar-ish' experience that you described does has both similarities and differneces. My perception of sight in
the environment can best be described as some sort of tactile sense that
produced a representation of what a 3rd dimensional viewer may see when
looking overhead. Of course I could also perceive future and past
simultaneously (making up a pseudo-3rd dimenstion). Your dream took you
flying (in a 3rd dimension) over a 2d landscape (there was no 'over' or 'under'
in my dream). Also, it did not appear that the weird 'time' sense / movement existed either. Do you remember what the environmental atmosphere was
like during the dream (the after-effects obviously felt good).

This sort of thing is reported as part of shammanism and magic ritual/witch craft etc and is quite a normal part of the hypnogogic experience. I can't tell you anything specifically useful though apart from this book "Hypnogogia" by Andreas Mavromatis describes some very common hypnogoic experiences. This book might help as well Surfing through Hyperspace" by Clifford A. Pickover, its talks about the higher dimentions, in science so you don't have to throw your dummy out of the pram. There is alot of intrest to do with lucid dreaming as the properties of the higher dims match alot the recognised elements encounted in experiences such as yours and others.

Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly, 'shammans' and 'magic
users' report being mathematical constructs in a colorless b&w 2-d bi-
directional time geometric environment? I'll address the book offers after
this part is cleared up.

Your first post was Now this says all you care about is stifeling the views of others, which, it turns out you don't even bother reading?

As previously explained, the first post was a prediction. The underlying
message of course is don't blur reality with fantasy (as this happens alot
about these thar parts yeee haaa).

Ok lets test this! Crunchy cat says: I can promise you, I don't
have 'faith' (i.e. unconditional trust) that an expectation is going to be met no matter how realistic or ridiculous.... but I will always say that any claims/musings or websites pertaining to such, about yet scientifically unproven phemona are bull and will attempt to poke fun with out even bothing to look. Sorry my man but THAT is Blind faith.

It's the interpretation presented that would imply blind faith; however,
the interpretation is incorrect. I'll try to clarify things through example.
Bill has a dream where a giant pink unicorn introduces itself as the 'Great
Unicorn' and says "Because your spirit is so pure, I am going to grant you
immense wealth". 15 years later Bill achieves a great empire called 'Microsoft'
through talent and alot of hard work. In world 'A' Bill claims that it is 'True'
that there exists a life form calling itself the 'Great Unicorn'. In world 'B'
Bill claims that it is 'True' that he had a dream where a creature called
the 'Great Unicorn' told him that he would be granted immense wealth.

In world 'A' Bill claimed the existance of a fantastic life form. In world 'B' Bill
expressed a dream event that he perceived. There are a bazillion web
resources posted around here that are world 'A'-ers.

:: CONTINUED... ::

 

[Crunchy Cat]

:: ...CONTINUATION ::

Transfer this arguement back 20 years and you'd be all upset cause you say "Lucid dreaming is pure fantasy! Don't come hear propogating your lies and bluring the line between reality and fantasy".... 20 years down the road and you cannot say that.

I would? Wow, and all this time I thought pre-cognition only worked towards
the future.

Face it Crunchy Cat, on one side is someone who has a mind capable of the flexibility to not just pre judge an issue without reading any of what is being discussed and on the other is a person who has blind faith in their own position and who does not even need to read the material! Are you quite sure you don't have some sort of supernatural power? The ability to have a positive/negative reaction to soemthing unseen sounds pretty dam psychic to me!

. Whole grain fiber on one side and frosty sugary goodness on the other?
Me thinks there is alot of over-interpretation afoot. Consequently, if I had a
super-natural power I would have won that million dollar Randy challange long
ago.

I think the word "entrenched" might be a little too confining for you my freind!

How about "home grown with a twist of lemon"?

You just use the word fantasy yet your just assuming AP to be fantasy, its your opinion. In an earlier post you said
Yet on the thread "Why no one steps forward" you haven't even bothered to find out anything about Ganzfeld experiments which are a key scientific tool of investigation to some of those subjects you claim to know FOR A FACT do not exist.

Ok, I'll give the benefit of the doubt. If 'Astral Projection' is being claimed
as a fact then prove it. I'll set up an area for projecting into and ask for
a particular detail in the environment. Sound like a plan?

In the other thread, I am giving the thread started an opportunity to prove
his long distance empathy claim. I really don't care about anything else in
there other than the fantastic claim.

You have to admit you are just coming from one side of the arguement and cannot see round the otherside, facts or no facts science or no science?

If course I can see the other side. It's a creative, attractive, fantasy land.
I spend alot of time there but can distibguish from reality (which is a chronic
problem that leads to things like fath, belief, consultants...).

I posted not to glory in my own shared dream or anything, so it still stands, I really do not care who believes or disbelieves me. I know its never going to be proved, so I just don't worry about it, only two people know the truth and the others can think I'm some sort of gifted psi prodigy and the others can think I'm just spinning a chance event or lieing. Not a problem mate :bugeye:

What would you think if a gap was discovered between your two experiences
(something that contradicts the assertion)?

 

[alain]

""Am I dreaming?"

And the answer is an automatic "yes" by virtue of even asking the question
in the first place... and then... instantaenous lucidity!"

nice. i just cant get to the stage where i subconsciously ask the question, practice makes perfect i guess

 

[Crunchy Cat]

""Am I dreaming?"

And the answer is an automatic "yes" by virtue of even asking the question
in the first place... and then... instantaenous lucidity!"

nice. i just cant get to the stage where i subconsciously ask the question, practice makes perfect i guess

One of my early lucid dreaming tricks was to look at my watch and read
the time. I would then repeat the process and usually something would
change drastically. One one attempt it would read 9:45 a.m. and in another
attempt it would read space invaders. On many attempts the text was
incoherent.

So, basically if you can remember to check your watch then look for
inconsistency / incoherency (good indicators of dreaming).

 

[alain]

"and in another attempt it would read space invaders."

LOL!! nice, ill keep on the lookout, and shallactually wear my watch from now on

thanks

 

[Pantalimon]

Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly, 'shammans' and 'magic
users' report being mathematical constructs in a colorless b&w 2-d bi-
directional time geometric environment? I'll address the book offers after
this part is cleared up.

Yes, many of the dot and grid structures are on cave walls from the stone age are assumed to be representations of this phenonenon. The Hypnogogic book goes into this in detail, I had to get my local library to make a loan of the book from the british library so I don't have it any more to tell you more.

I did read the rest of your post before the weekend and was going to reply but I really can't be bothered anymore, its just a waste of the skin of my fingertips as far as I can make out.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Yes, many of the dot and grid structures are on cave walls from the stone age are assumed to be representations of this phenonenon. The Hypnogogic book goes into this in detail, I had to get my local library to make a loan of the book from the british library so I don't have it any more to tell you more.

I did read the rest of your post before the weekend and was going to reply but I really can't be bothered anymore, its just a waste of the skin of my fingertips as far as I can make out.

Well, seeing as how magic is a proven fact and that it's also a fact that
cave men drew pictures of being mathematical constructs in a colorless b&w
2-d bi-directional time geometric environment, it all must be true!!! Glory
hallelujah!!!

I read through the descriptions of the books you recommended online. It was
like science ficton roleplaying sprinkled with a touch of truth. Anyhow,
materials written by folks who can't distinguish reality from fantasy can be
entertaining... but I really can't be bothered with such tripe as its just a
waste of the skin on my fingertips to turn the pages as far as I can make
out .

Stop by again when your reality meter starts working.

 

[Pantalimon]

I said

This sort of thing is reported as part of shammanism and magic ritual/witch craft etc and is quite a normal part of the hypnogogic experience.

and then

Yes, many of the dot and grid structures are on cave walls from the stone age are assumed to be representations of this phenonenon.

You replyed

Well, seeing as how magic is a proven fact and that it's also a fact that cave men drew pictures of being mathematical constructs in a colorless b&w
2-d bi-directional time geometric environment, it all must be true!!! Glory
hallelujah!!!

Hallelujah "fur shur," Chrunchy cat dude, your just a slacker flamer aren't you? Come on now just admit it matey boy. Your not interested in quite frankly anything I really have to say, and cetainly not fact, I do actually think you cannot read properly actually, your posts upto now certainly would point to either not being able to read or not reading properly anything put in front of your nose. So come on admit to the world you love to flame and you'll do it no matter what.

Come out of the closet boy place your hand on the almighty flamers bible and repeat after me "I Crunchy Cat, just love to flame, I can't help myself, I don't repent cause I can't and won't stop!"

I read through the descriptions of the books you recommended online. It was
like science ficton roleplaying sprinkled with a touch of truth. Anyhow,
materials written by folks who can't distinguish reality from fantasy can be
entertaining... but I really can't be bothered with such tripe as its just a
waste of the skin on my fingertips to turn the pages as far as I can make
out .

Hmmmm lets examine your flamer boy claims more closely

The following is the books description of Surfing Through Hyperspace: Understanding Higher Universes in Six Easy Lessons from Amazon.

Book Description
Do a little armchair time-travel, rub elbows with a four-dimensional intelligent life form, or stretch your mind to the furthest corner of an uncharted universe. With this astonishing guidebook, Surfing Through Hyperspace, you need not be a mathematician or an astrophysicist to explore the all-but-unfathomable concepts of hyperspace and higher-dimensional geometry.

No subject in mathematics has intrigued both children and adults as much as the idea of a fourth dimension. Philosophers and parapsychologists have meditated on this mysterious space that no one can point to but may be all around us. Yet this extra dimension has a very real, practical value to mathematicians and physicists who use it every day in their calculations. In the tradtion of Flatland, and with an infectious enthusiasm, Clifford Pickover tackles the problems inherent in our 3-D brains trying to visualize a 4-D world, muses on the religious implications of the existence of higher-dimensional consciousness, and urges all curious readers to venture into "the unexplored territory lying beyond the prison of the obvious." Pickover alternates sections that explain the science of hyperspace with sections that dramatize mind-expanding concepts through a fictional dialogue between two futuristic FBI agents who dabble in the fourth dimension as a matter of national security. This highly accessible and entertaining approach turns an intimidating subject into a scientific game open to all dreamers.

Surfing Through Hyperspace concludes with a number of puzzles, computer experiments and formulas for further exploration, inviting readers to extend their minds across this inexhaustibly intriguing scientific terrain.

It was like science ficton roleplaying sprinkled with a touch of truth.

I know you have a funny definition of the "truth" so we'll stick with what science currently can prove. Because the properties of the 5th dimention are so bizzare (sorry I realise you don't understand about higher dimentions of space time, you'll just have to take sciences word for it if you can't get your head round it) Clifford Pickover uses a device (people do this in books Crunchy you'll find from Shakespear to Rushdie) of using FBI agents like Mulder and Scully to explain the bizzare but science fact of the book. This helps people like me who only took physics to below degree level and others who might not be science masterminds like you (oh sorry I forgot your not, your just flamer boy).

Anyhow, materials written by folks who can't distinguish reality from fantasy can be entertaining... but I really can't be bothered with such tripe

Or maybe you can't be bothered with any knowledge of science and fact at all Crunchy Cat? Could that be the fact?

Stop by again when the whim comes over you to flame again matey boy, its always a pleasure reading your, er, facts *cough* "bulllsh**"

Cheers thanks for coming old bean