New, Improved Obamacare Program Released On 35 Floppy Disks

[Michael]

That is false.

If you remove accidents and lifestyle diseases (#1, #3-5) and #2 is dropping due to decrease in HRT, then medical incompetence is the next likely reason you will die. You don't find this pathetic??? This means you could live your life healthy and if you have the unfortunate chance of entering a hospital for some reason other than #1-5, the #1 reason you'll die is someone's medical incompetence.

Kind of reminds you of Public Housing doesn't it? Or of Public Schooling where 47% of the Graduating class is functionally illiterate. Or Public Security / Police that stuff our Public Prisons with, mainly, non-violent people who wanted to live their own lives.

The State trains and certifies all medical practitioners.
The State caps the number of people who can enter the profession.
The State attempts to regulated and manipulate all healthcare markets.
The State goes so far as to even legally prevent hospitals from being built.
The State of course limits services such as fMRI.

Healthcare is as far from a free market as banking and is in just as bad, or worse, shape. And it's of no surprise to me. It's plain as day to see where the problem lays.

Also, as has been pointed out to you many times, you don't know what the word "fascist" means. But you have here acknowledged the primacy of capitalistic industry in earning the label - you had earlier denied that aspect of it. So, progress.

Fascism is the merger of the State/Government and Corporate power. It's impossible to have Too Big To Fail businesses in a free-market economy based on sound money used as capital (savings) for investment. Fascist States, like the one the Progressives brought us, naturally slip into Authoritarianism; which comes to be a defining characteristic of their fascistic nature. You know, when the State forces you to pay it to work. Or when it decides for what drugs you can use. Or when it decides you can or can not participate in a market. Or when it has total control over your money. Or when it sells bonds on your children - who will pay those bonds back, go to jail or starve. You know, a State that makes up jingoistic "War on Drugs" or "War on Terror" and then sets about having a War on you (America has the largest prison population of any country). The lovely State that is now militarizing our police and spying on each and every one of us. Which it of course has to do - you see, Central Planning can never work, so spying will have to suffice for the free market. And now that our money is so corrupted profit is seen as evil and non-profit as virtuous. Where free interaction is bad and force is good. Where the worker pays to work. Where 'free' is taken as entitlement. Yeah, we'll need a LOT of prisons and a LOT of spying to keep such an immoral entitlement society afloat.

It's here to stay. Expect more to come.

Without this racist notion of Progressivism, and the idea you can and should use force to bring 'progress' to the people, we'd never have had a central bank, would have never had the great depression and possibly have avoided WWII as well. We'd more than likely, as a society, have an unregulated free-market with an extra $40 trillion or so per year to spend on things like healthcare. Thank the Progressives we have this farce disease-care instead.

 

[iceaura]

The fundamental problem with Progressives is their willingness to use force to so-called 'help' society. And the irony is, it's not 'Science' that makes a society progressive - it's the free ability to trade. Which requires sound money, law and private property. The USSR had very good scientists. It certainly did NOT result in a progressive society. AND, the War we're fighting against Terror in the ME, THAT is Progressivism. It's the idea that we have the right to go into the 'backwards' middle east with there superstition non-sense and replace it with our "Progressive" culture of science, technology and of course our own superstition: Democracy.

Ordinarily one uses ideological terms to separate out different ideologies for discussion. In Michael's case, all the ideological terms mean the same thing - fascist is progressive, progressive is socialist, socialist is liberal, liberal is fascist. As in the anthills of the Once and Future King, there is only one pair of contrasting ideologies, the "good" and the "bad". All the bad are the same, all the good are teenage level rightwing "libertarians".

In that quote there, Dick Cheney was described as a "progressive".

And the irony is, it's not 'Science' that makes a society progressive - it's the free ability to trade. Which requires sound money, law and private property. The USSR had very good scientists. It certainly did NOT result in a progressive society.

The USSR went from medieval thatch with no running water and cows living in the house, oxdrawn horn-hitched plows, endemic cholera, and majority illiteracy, to indoor plumbing and orbiting satellites, in about one generation.

If you remove accidents and lifestyle diseases (#1, #3-5) and #2 is dropping due to decrease in HRT, then medical incompetence is the next likely reason you will die. You don't find this pathetic??? This means you could live your life healthy and if you have the unfortunate chance of entering a hospital for some reason other than #1-5, the #1 reason you'll die is someone's medical incompetence.

So the care is so good that it will keep you from dying of almost anything, providing only that nobody screws up. That sounds like a very good setup. A hundred years ago you were far more likely to die of pneumonia, if you had it, than medical malpractice - now the situation is so good regarding pneumonia that only a major screwup by a doc will kill you. That's some serious progress, medical care so good as to be almost miraculous.

The State trains and certifies all medical practitioners.

No, it doesn't train them.

The State attempts to regulated and manipulate all healthcare markets.

As well it should, since a free and competitive market setup is impossible, and fraud historically so easy and common.

Fascism is the merger of the State/Government and Corporate power.

No, it isn't. It's the takeover and employment of the one by the other, usually by way of an appointed strongmanr or plutocratic assembly. "Merger" fails to distinguish the powerful from the functionary.

Fascist States, like the one the Progressives brought us, naturally slip into Authoritarianism

Fascism begins and remains intrinsically authoritarian - it doesn't "slip into" the condition.

 

[Michael]

actually it was the free market that messed it up. Their is a reason every place that has universal healthcare spends less than us and had better outcomes

Are you nuts? We do NOT have a free-market in medicine. Go try and practice medicine and watch how quickly you find that one out. Geesh, you'd be put in jail. In a free market it's up to the market, not the State, to decide whose service is valued.

And that you think regional currency would be sound is laughable.

I never said anything about region currency. I said free-market money. Some of which could be region currency - it'd be up to the market. Which is quite interesting. If the USD, which looses about 5-7% a year in purchasing power, is such a great currency, and I'm wrong, then you don't have to worry because not a single person anywhere would use any other currency. Oh, but we will never know because the State, and the bankers who own the State apparatus, will never let us find out. Notice my way, the free market, just leaves it up to people to decide for themselves. Your way, the Progressives way, involves a gun and prison. It involves selling bonds on future labor pulling prosperity out of the future into the present. Yeah, that was great for the babyboomers - and now their kids, their grandkids and their great grandkids have to pay. That is not only immoral, it's undemocratic and unfair. You are living a less prosperous life, yet there you are defending your kidnappers.

THAT is religion.

You don't seem to get - YOU are the future without the prosperity. It was spent on your behalf decades ago. All we're left with is the bill and table scraps.

As for ObamaCare, as I said, it'll be as good as Public Housing (see: ObamaCare website). AND ObamaCare is just the Babyboomers doing what they do best. Stealing the last little bit of wealth from the grandkids (who have to pay for them as they retire). It was written by the industry, for the industry. It's just another tax on the poorest.

 

[Michael]

I think it will be interesting to see how State force deals with the next mess it makes:

The saddest thing here is how the millennial generation has been totally screwed over by their grandparents. Every which way to Sunday. Not only were they sold out as the boomers gave themselves over to house-flipping. Not only will THEY be stuck with this humongous bill to bail out the banks/boomers. Not only do they have pay for their grandparents retirement healthcare costs. But they have to do so on part-time work. Which means they'll never develop the skill sets needed to create self-capital and a lasting professional career. I find it revolting how the babyboomers have treated this planet and everything on it. But particularly sickening is the way they're leaving their grandchildren destitute.

 

[Michael]

Ordinarily one uses ideological terms to separate out different ideologies for discussion. In Michael's case, all the ideological terms mean the same thing - fascist is progressive, progressive is socialist, socialist is liberal, liberal is fascist. As in the anthills of the Once and Future King, there is only one pair of contrasting ideologies, the "good" and the "bad". All the bad are the same, all the good are teenage level rightwing "libertarians".

In that quote there, Dick Cheney was described as a "progressive".

The USSR went from medieval thatch with no running water and cows living in the house, oxdrawn horn-hitched plows, endemic cholera, and majority illiteracy, to indoor plumbing and orbiting satellites, in about one generation.

You are full of poop. I described Progressive and I then described Fascism - and yes, they are different. They do go together like hand in glove. Often in the hand of an authoritarian.

TBTF corporations IS Fascism.

Dick Cheney - yes, he's a Progressive Fascist, just like Obama and GW Bush Jr. You seem to think these people are greatly different from one another - they are not. If you could look past the political marketing you'd see 99% are all the same. And when you have someone like Ron Paul, someone who actually wants to change the system - he's painted as a racist red neck. AND I seem to recall you were one of those with a brush in your hand. Well, lucky you. You get ObamaCare and the NSA. Be happy.

 

[Michael]

The USSR went from medieval thatch with no running water and cows living in the house, oxdrawn horn-hitched plows, endemic cholera, and majority illiteracy, to indoor plumbing and orbiting satellites, in about one generation.

And the USA went from horse and buggy to nuclear fission.
SO??

China went from world superpower, silk and international trade to mud huts and starvation.


I'm not entirely clear of your point here. Are you attempting to suggest Communism was a viable economic system? Give me a break. Raping the capital out of a few nations and directing it into a few projects is NOT a viable economic system. I visited Communist Soviet Block after they opened - many places did not have indoor plumbing and when they did, it didn't work.

 

[Michael]

Actual ObamaCare Ads:

Interestingly, I read it will require 35 million Americans will need to enroll for the Federal "ObamaCare" System to be solvent. Which means, there's an incentive for Government to see that people are not enrolled into private insurance - but forced onto ObamaCare.
- you may want to watch that space, because it's clear how this will go down.

 

[paddoboy]

Interesting you would say "Citizen". What? Don't you care about the healthcare of children outside your country? It's OK for you to wear the cloths and shoes they make you - but you don't feel you own them anything in return? You don't care about childrens health? You don't think you they are entitled to be free from easily cured disease while people in your own country die of $1 million heart attacks from drinking too much beer/soda and eating too much fating food?

That's interesting.

Don't be such a silly sanctimonious bleeding heart wanker. And stop stooping and putting words and weird crazy personal interpretations of yours into my mouth, because nothing could be further from the truth.
Yes, I care heaps about people including children in other countries, and the Australian government can only do a limited amount to help them and do that with our overseas aid program.
And myself and my wife also finance two adopted children through World vision, so on a personal level, I also help out to the best of my ability...You???

Getting back on track, my congratulations again to Obama in at least getting the ball rolling on Universal health care in the USA.

 

[iceaura]

And the USA went from horse and buggy to nuclear fission.
SO??

Took twice as long. The USSR made some serious rapid progress there. What was your definition of "progressive" again?

China went from world superpower, silk and international trade to mud huts and starvation.

No, it didn't. China went from miserable, starving, opium hooked, and abused colonial footstool to independent country beaten to its knees by military occupation and major famine to the world's second largest economy and fair bid to be the dominant power on the major continent - in about fifty years. Again: serious, almost miraculously rapid progress.

Dick Cheney - yes, he's a Progressive Fascist, just like Obama and GW Bush Jr. You seem to think these people are greatly different from one another - they are not

I think Cheney and W are fascists, and Obama is a rightwing authoritarian - just as it says on your little chart there, where you don't know where to put progressives, and where your point evaporates because you haven't put W or Cheney on it.

I described Progressive and I then described Fascism - and yes, they are different. They do go together like hand in glove. Often in the hand of an authoritarian.

Fascism would of course always be in the hand of an authoritarian - by definition. Not so "progressive", which is compatible with a wide variety of means including strict avoidance of coercion, and has no atavistic mission to establish "traditional" or "family" values in the interests of a corporate elite.

So you continue to reveal basic confusion in these matters.

 

[pjdude1219]

No, progressivism is not about 'equality' it's the idea that advances in science and technology lead to economic development and together with top-down social re-organization will improve the human condition. The idea was based on the notion Europe had 'Progressed' past much of the rest of the world and it was up to them 'Europeans' (and Americans) to help the poor backwards unwashed masses in the rest of the world achieve the same level of "Progress" as they had - even if it meant a bit of force was required to get the job done (see: GW Bush Jr., Obama, Clinton, etc... and American Exceptionalism).

and part of that was a veiw of equality.

While it is true that science and technology change society - it's not always for the better. See: Nuclear Bombing of Japan. See: Gunning down of Colonies. See: Freedom Fries and Drones above Iraq. See: NSA

and yet you feel privilage the elites economic poower which is essentially the same thing as good.

The fundamental problem with Progressives is their willingness to use force to so-called 'help' society. And the irony is, it's not 'Science' that makes a society progressive - it's the free ability to trade. Which requires sound money, law and private property. The USSR had very good scientists. It certainly did NOT result in a progressive society. AND, the War we're fighting against Terror in the ME, THAT is Progressivism. It's the idea that we have the right to go into the 'backwards' middle east with there superstition non-sense and replace it with our "Progressive" culture of science, technology and of course our own superstition: Democracy. Which is interesting given the founding fathers had very little to no faith in democracy. Which is why the general public was only allowed to vote for State representative and the House. All other political 'servants' were chosen for them. Which, considering the federal government was so small, was fine. Ever wonder how this tiny little social institution called the Federal Government grew to into the massive institution it is today? It's ability to initiate force against innocent people. Example: Forcing people to buy ObamaCare and fining them if they don't.

progressives don't uise force well they do in the redefined libertarian usage ut you forgive me if i decline to yours your definitions and use you know the normal ones. than aren't corporations uses of force. the gaping holes in your logic make my head hurt.

 

[pjdude1219]

Are you nuts? We do NOT have a free-market in medicine.

actually we do. well at least as much as possible.

Go try and practice medicine and watch how quickly you find that one out. Geesh, you'd be put in jail.

i keep forgetting your all for the hobo under the bridge doing surgery. making sure doctors actually know medicine isn't a violation of freedom or making not a free market. it basic common sense

In a free market it's up to the market, not the State, to decide whose service is valued.

and it is market forces which determine prices. which is why they are spiraling out of control. the medical industry can slap whatever price it wants on things because people will pay to not die. its classical free market coercion.

I never said anything about region currency. I said free-market money. Some of which could be region currency - it'd be up to the market. Which is quite interesting. If the USD, which looses about 5-7% a year in purchasing power, is such a great currency, and I'm wrong, then you don't have to worry because not a single person anywhere would use any other currency. Oh, but we will never know because the State, and the bankers who own the State apparatus, will never let us find out. Notice my way, the free market, just leaves it up to people to decide for themselves. Your way, the Progressives way, involves a gun and prison. It involves selling bonds on future labor pulling prosperity out of the future into the present. Yeah, that was great for the babyboomers - and now their kids, their grandkids and their great grandkids have to pay. That is not only immoral, it's undemocratic and unfair. You are living a less prosperous life, yet there you are defending your kidnappers.

regional currency is the end result of your mad ideas. and please quit making shit up in regards to taxation.

THAT is religion.

i pretty sure thats another word you don't know the definition too.

You don't seem to get - YOU are the future without the prosperity. It was spent on your behalf decades ago. All we're left with is the bill and table scraps.

As for ObamaCare, as I said, it'll be as good as Public Housing (see: ObamaCare website). AND ObamaCare is just the Babyboomers doing what they do best. Stealing the last little bit of wealth from the grandkids (who have to pay for them as they retire). It was written by the industry, for the industry. It's just another tax on the poorest.

I understand perfectly thank you very much. I think for my self not mindlessly spout of talking points from a fringe group.

 

[pjdude1219]

You are full of poop. I described Progressive and I then described Fascism - and yes, they are different. They do go together like hand in glove. Often in the hand of an authoritarian.

TBTF corporations IS Fascism.

Dick Cheney - yes, he's a Progressive Fascist, just like Obama and GW Bush Jr. You seem to think these people are greatly different from one another - they are not. If you could look past the political marketing you'd see 99% are all the same. And when you have someone like Ron Paul, someone who actually wants to change the system - he's painted as a racist red neck. AND I seem to recall you were one of those with a brush in your hand. Well, lucky you. You get ObamaCare and the NSA. Be happy.

the political compass has been debunked as little more than libertarian propaganda for several years now. mainly do to its biased questions. its designed to try and paint libgertarians as better than everyone else. hint your not.

 

[Tiassa]

The Obvious Question

Interestingly, I read it will require 35 million Americans will need to enroll for the Federal "ObamaCare" System to be solvent. Which means, there's an incentive for Government to see that people are not enrolled into private insurance - but forced onto ObamaCare.

And where do you read that?

See, there is an apocryphal story going around Democratic circles about a guy at the fair in Kentucky, listening to a woman explain Kynect, the health insurance marketplace for people in the state, and the guy says, "This beats Obamacare, I hope."

I know, too perfect, right? It's a dumb-assed story, but in this case we might make a certain point:

Obamacare? I do not think that means what you think it means.

The first way to clear up the issue is your source. Interestingly, you read ... okay, where do you read?

There is something fundamentally amiss about your assertion; it would be especially useful to consider the source document.
____________________

Notes:

Cherkis, Jason. "Kentucky Health Workers Pitch Obamacare At State Fair Alongside Corn Dogs, Fried Kool-Aid". The Huffington Post. August 22, 2013. HuffingtonPost.com. October 23, 2013. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/kentucky-obamacare_n_3801054.html

 

[joepistole]

I think it will be interesting to see how State force deals with the next mess it makes:

The saddest thing here is how the millennial generation has been totally screwed over by their grandparents. Every which way to Sunday. Not only were they sold out as the boomers gave themselves over to house-flipping. Not only will THEY be stuck with this humongous bill to bail out the banks/boomers. Not only do they have pay for their grandparents retirement healthcare costs. But they have to do so on part-time work. Which means they'll never develop the skill sets needed to create self-capital and a lasting professional career. I find it revolting how the babyboomers have treated this planet and everything on it. But particularly sickening is the way they're leaving their grandchildren destitute.

That is not what the real numbers, the credible numbers, the numbers that professionals use say. You need to start getting your information from credible sources and m then you will at least have the correct numbers. The is part-time employment has been falling and full-time employment has been rising and you need to look no further than the monthly Bureau of Labor Statistics data to see the real and credible data.

 

[kwhilborn]

What's a floppy disk?

 

[spidergoat]

Yes, the Government does such a wonderful job that when it makes a total mess of something as they have with their healthcare website - do they turn to a Governmental Agency to FIX their mess?...

They didn't fuck it up on their own, it took lots of Republican and Tea Party sabotage. That included states refusing to set up their own exchanges, refusing federal money, challenging the law at the Supreme Court, and finally shutting down the government, all of which contributed to the mess.

 

[GeoffP]

It's a joke. Do you not know "the ONION?

You actually thought Michael thought it was a serious commentary.

Wow.

 

[joepistole]

LOL, off your meds again I see.

 

[GeoffP]

Sure, because I'm the one who thought Michael didn't know what The Onion was.

 

[joepistole]

Sure, because I'm the one who thought Michael didn't know what The Onion was.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.