Netanyahu aide: Israel using Collective Punishment on children of Gaza because parent

[spidergoat]

That they don't care about the damage they are causing. If you don't care, then we won't care; and yes, Israel is a strong and technologically sophisticated country, but it is not invincible and will certainly not be in the future. So what if we take that same attitude?

All it takes is one nuclear missile.

Hamas has already had that attitude for some time. The problem is fundamentalism. It precludes compromise, which is the essence of negotiation. Hamas doesn't care if all the Palestinians are killed, as they will go to a paradise beyond the grave. They are happy when their children die, since that is a public relations win.

 

[spidergoat]

Then there is no other option but war. I want the Palestinians out of Syria and you want them out of Israel; where the hell are they supposed to go?

Call them by their real name, Arabs. What's the problem accepting Arabs into a predominately Arab nation? Israel is predominately Jewish, so there is an inherent cultural divide there.

 

[Norsefire]

Hamas has already had that attitude for some time. The problem is fundamentalism. It precludes compromise, which is the essence of negotiation. Hamas doesn't care if all the Palestinians are killed, as they will go to a paradise beyond the grave. They are happy when their children die, since that is a public relations win.

Is compromise moral?

Call them by their real name, Arabs. What's the problem accepting Arabs into a predominately Arab nation? Israel is predominately Jewish, so there is an inherent cultural divide there.

I don't care about whether or not they are Arabs; I care about whether or not they are Syrians.

Fuck the rest of the Arabs. I never believed in Pan-Arabism.

 

[pjdude1219]

Call them by their real name, Arabs. What's the problem accepting Arabs into a predominately Arab nation? Israel is predominately Jewish, so there is an inherent cultural divide there.

yes "Israel" is predominately jewish but what you wish to hide and ignore is that Israel shouldn't be palestine should and it was and should be predominately arab

 

[pjdude1219]

You said yourself, these people are draining your resources. Wouldn't they drain the resources of Israel much faster as they are smaller?

No, letting the Palestinians into Israel would lead to the same problems that led to the War of Independence in 1948. Do you think history won't repeat itself?

So your saying letting the palestinians back into the homes in all of palestine would cause the same problems in the war of conquest when the jews didn't want to share they wanted other people's property. while I'll admit that is probably true why would they give it back just to take it again?

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Then there is no other option but war. I want the Palestinians out of Syria and you want them out of Israel; where the hell are they supposed to go?

Why don't they just go back where they belong: to their own land, to Palestine?

Oh wait, I forgot. The British stole Palestine and then gave it to the Jewish refugees, because the Europeans didn't want the Jews back in Europe.

So maybe we should give the Palestinians England or some other European country.

 

[pjdude1219]

What attitude is that? That they don't like getting missiles rained down on them?

if you want the honey you have to deal with the bees. instead of you continual saying the problem is the palestinians fighting for their rights why don't you blame the thugs who have taken their rights and continue to do so. Oh that's right you have the same religion.

 

[pjdude1219]

How does one stop Hamas without adversely affecting the civilian population in any way? That is the question. No one is calling the Palestinians less than human, and no one is specifically targeting the children for suffering. It's just that the ruling regime in Gaza is a threat to the lives of Israelis. They are smuggling weapons across the borders, so those avenues must be cut off. Food and necessities are still going through.

Fighting terrorism will always piss off those who use terror, that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it. If more terrorists arise, those too will become targets. Until it's over. Islam combined with western civilization creates suicide bombers. I'm not giving that up just because some religious nuts can't join the modern world.

simple remove the why

 

[ElectricFetus]

I point to the level of reasoning and argument visible throughout the defenders of Israel's behavior, and rest my case.

Well all I'm asking for is what did Israel actually do that is so bad?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Exactly, when the Western teat is removed from their mouths and they no longer have Western powers white-washing all of their actions, then we'll see what happens, who the real enemy is and how long Israel will last.

What don't you understand it is exactly with that teat that the U.S. has saved the Arabs/Palestinians, collective asses all to often.

The U.S. has with threats of stopping aid to Israel, forced Israel, into cease fires that saved the Arabs from complete defeat, and just maybe a end to all this bullshit.

 

[Bells]

How does one stop Hamas without adversely affecting the civilian population in any way? That is the question. No one is calling the Palestinians less than human, and no one is specifically targeting the children for suffering.

Are you sure about that? So when they use Palestinian children for target practice and take pot shots at them and kill them... What is that exactly? How about denying them access to adequate health care and food, not to mention an adequate education? Who are the ultimate victims and targets of such actions, Spider?

It's just that the ruling regime in Gaza is a threat to the lives of Israelis.

Are Israelis more human than Palestinian children in your opinion and thus, more deserving of protection?

Do you think the collective punishment is working to protect the lives of Israelis? Or do you think denying Palestinian children the basic necessities of life and making their life miserable in general is further ensuring that they will grow up to want to kill Israelis?

They are smuggling weapons across the borders, so those avenues must be cut off.

You mean they are an occupied people smugging weapons across the borders to defend themselves against a country that has nukes and top class weaponry?

Food and necessities are still going through.

And every calorie is counted to the minute detail and food is made to rot on the borders before it gets through.. You know, god forbid they are allowed to eat meat and such. We see Israeli and blockade supporters post pictures of markets with fresh fruit and vegetables, but because of how such basic items like food is so scarce and unemployment is rife (you know, since industry can't operate because of the blockade), people can't afford to buy food and have to rely on what little is allowed in. That, spider, is the reality of collective punishment. And as we have seen time and again in history, it does not work. So why do it? What is the purpose of intentionally making children suffer for things that are completely outside of their control?

Fighting terrorism will always piss off those who use terror, that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it.

You see, when you use terror to fight terror, it kind of does not work. When fighting terror means that you make innocent children suffer, you've kind of lost whatever high ground you'd placed yourself on.

If more terrorists arise, those too will become targets.

At some point, one would hope that you would understand the simple fact that when small children are brought up and made to suffer as those children are, you know, being occupied, denied basic human rights.. that is what breeds terrorism.. Because those children grow up feeling desperate and want the rights we say exists, so what do they do? They look for the easiest method of getting it and that will mean lashing back against their occupiers.

Until it's over.

It won't end until both sides recognise that both are human and are deserving of equal rights.

Islam combined with western civilization creates suicide bombers.

No, my dear. Desperation and systematic abuse committed by an occupying state is what creates suicide bombers. You know, the last way out and take out as much of the enemy as one can. We see it in mass school shootings in US schools.. people who are bullied will strike back in the most horrendous way.. So the more Israel bullies the Palestinian children and makes them suffer, the more suicide bombers they will create.

I'm not giving that up just because some religious nuts can't join the modern world.

Giving what up? You're an atheist living in the US. So what are you giving up? Do you think it is acceptable to force others to give up their homes and their lives so that Israelis can feel safe? Tell me, how many Palestinian children should die to protect one Israeli?

 

[Bells]

Call them by their real name, Arabs. What's the problem accepting Arabs into a predominately Arab nation? Israel is predominately Jewish, so there is an inherent cultural divide there.

What the hell kind of retarded argument is that?

If we were to use your argument, we could say that the majority of Jews in Israel are Europeans, so why don't they go back to Europe and let the Arabs have their land back?

 

[spidergoat]

Jews are culturally distinct from Europeans, hence their persecution over the centuries.

 

[spidergoat]

Are you sure about that? So when they use Palestinian children for target practice and take pot shots at them and kill them... What is that exactly?

Propaganda.

How about denying them access to adequate health care and food, not to mention an adequate education? Who are the ultimate victims and targets of such actions, Spider?

You don't get to be terrorists and enjoy all the benefits of western society. Hamas is engaged in war, they should be aware of the consequences.

Are Israelis more human than Palestinian children in your opinion and thus, more deserving of protection?

Non-sequitur.

Do you think the collective punishment is working to protect the lives of Israelis? Or do you think denying Palestinian children the basic necessities of life and making their life miserable in general is further ensuring that they will grow up to want to kill Israelis?

A little of both.

You mean they are an occupied people smugging weapons across the borders to defend themselves against a country that has nukes and top class weaponry?

Yup.

And every calorie is counted to the minute detail and food is made to rot on the borders before it gets through.. You know, god forbid they are allowed to eat meat and such. We see Israeli and blockade supporters post pictures of markets with fresh fruit and vegetables, but because of how such basic items like food is so scarce and unemployment is rife (you know, since industry can't operate because of the blockade), people can't afford to buy food and have to rely on what little is allowed in. That, spider, is the reality of collective punishment. And as we have seen time and again in history, it does not work. So why do it? What is the purpose of intentionally making children suffer for things that are completely outside of their control?

If their parents had some sense, this wouldn't happen.

You see, when you use terror to fight terror, it kind of does not work. When fighting terror means that you make innocent children suffer, you've kind of lost whatever high ground you'd placed yourself on.

Unfortunately, the children always suffer in war. That's unavoidable. It's impossible to insulate them from the actions of their parents.

At some point, one would hope that you would understand the simple fact that when small children are brought up and made to suffer as those children are, you know, being occupied, denied basic human rights.. that is what breeds terrorism.. Because those children grow up feeling desperate and want the rights we say exists, so what do they do? They look for the easiest method of getting it and that will mean lashing back against their occupiers.

Maybe not though, they could realize that fucking with Israel brings you nothing but pain and hardship.

It won't end until both sides recognise that both are human and are deserving of equal rights.

They already do. That's not the issue.

No, my dear. Desperation and systematic abuse committed by an occupying state is what creates suicide bombers. You know, the last way out and take out as much of the enemy as one can. We see it in mass school shootings in US schools.. people who are bullied will strike back in the most horrendous way.. So the more Israel bullies the Palestinian children and makes them suffer, the more suicide bombers they will create.

That goes both ways, the Palestinians are bullying the Israelis. People like you have blinders to that fact. The Palestinians have no moral advantage.

Giving what up? You're an atheist living in the US. So what are you giving up? Do you think it is acceptable to force others to give up their homes and their lives so that Israelis can feel safe?

Of course.

Tell me, how many Palestinian children should die to protect one Israeli?

Unanswerable. How many Israelis should die so that old Palis can regain their miserable stone huts?

 

[Bells]

Propaganda.

For who?

You think dead children is propaganda?

You don't get to be terrorists and enjoy all the benefits of western society. Hamas is engaged in war, they should be aware of the consequences.

So the children are terrorists now?

Non-sequitur.

In light of your responses to my questions, I don't think it is.

A little of both.

So you don't think ending collective punishment and recognising Palestinians as human beings instead of as "old Palis can regain their miserable stone huts" would help ease the desire to kill Israelis?

You don't think granting them equal status and recognising their rights to exist isn't going to help lessen the hatred a bit?

Yup.

.......

Akin to shooting a tank with a dart gun really, eh spider?

If their parents had some sense, this wouldn't happen.

You mean if they weren't Palestinian?

If they hadn't voted maybe? You're talking about a people born in occupation and having children and trying to survive in occupation.

Unfortunately, the children always suffer in war. That's unavoidable. It's impossible to insulate them from the actions of their parents.

I'm sorry, so it is their parents who are using the collective punishment? How are their parents at fault when it is Israel who removed them from their land and continues to do it, denies them their basic human rights and it goes on and on..?

And then, to top it off, instigates collective punishment against them?

It's not just the Gazan's.. All Palestinians are treated as second class citizens and denied rights. So tell me, how is it the actions of all Palestinian parents?

Maybe not though, they could realize that fucking with Israel brings you nothing but pain and hardship.

Can I ask? What makes Israel so special that it can get away with committing gross human rights abuses?

Why is Israel's actions considered acceptable when other States who commit the same crimes are punished by the world community?

They already do. That's not the issue.

Really? Could have fooled me.

That goes both ways, the Palestinians are bullying the Israelis. People like you have blinders to that fact. The Palestinians have no moral advantage.

People like me?

Who am I?

Tell me something.. Israel are more powerful than the Palestinians. They are better armed than any other ME State. They have the full military support of the West and are funded by the US. How can a people, who are occupied by Israel, be the bully?

We the Jews the bullies in WWII against the Germans? How about the Armenians against the Turks? The victims in Sudan? Are they the bullies?

Hamas may have no moral advantage, but guess what, neither does Israel. In fact, Israel has lowered itself into the mud pit and are rolling in it.

Of course.

So why don't you give up your home and have the European Jews move in with you and get them out of the dangerous position they are in in Israel?

Unanswerable. How many Israelis should die so that old Palis can regain their miserable stone huts?

My my.. lovely..

Tell me, were you always such a bigot? It's the attitude like yours that led to millions upon millions perishing under the white colonial powers and rulers in history.

 

[spidergoat]

It's not Israel's obligation to grant them any rights, except those under the Geneva Conventions. Gaza isn't Israel. Israel just wants the terrorism to stop. Yes, I'm bigoted against those people that elected Hamas. What's wrong with that?

Just like some Arab nations use the Palestinians as pawns in their deadly game, you are using children. Everyone has children, that doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want and get away with it. What makes Gaza so special that it can get away with committing gross human rights abuses? Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist. Don't you think your criticism is a little one-sided?

"How can a people, who are occupied by Israel, be the bully?" With bombs and missiles. Being well armed doesn't automatically make you the offending party. Besides, remember that it was the armies of 5 Arab nations against Israel that made this happen. That would cause anyone to arm themselves.

"So why don't you give up your home and have the European Jews move in with you and get them out of the dangerous position they are in in Israel?" They have lived in my home, plenty of them.

 

[Bells]

It's not Israel's obligation to grant them any rights, except those under the Geneva Conventions.

Which they aren't doing.

Gaza isn't Israel.

Yet.

Israel just wants the terrorism to stop.

Which won't happen when people have this kind of attitude:

"old Palis can regain their miserable stone huts?"

And:

"So what?"

Tell me, hasn't history taught us anything? The more you beat a people down, the more they will rebel and want to kill you. How many years has the occupation been now?

Do you honestly think Israel is going to get the terrorism to stop when they are occupying a people for that long?

Yes, I'm bigoted against those people that elected Hamas.

Just as bigoted as those who are against Israelis who voted for the hardline administration in Israel?

Just like some Arab nations use the Palestinians as pawns in their deadly game, you are using children.

I don't need to use children. Don't you get it yet? Collective Punishment is a resounding failure. They aren't stopping terrorist attacks. They are just breeding more with it. I mean, at what point will that sink in?

Everyone has children, that doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want and get away with it.

Irony. You mean only Israel can do whatever it wants and get away with it to protect its children, but "old Palis" in their "stone huts" cannot?

What makes Gaza so special that it can get away with committing gross human rights abuses?

The suicide bombing Israel isn't something they should get away with and it is individuals who commit the crimes, not the whole population. So why collective punishment?. Collective punishment - forcing people, who are living in refugee camps because they were removed from their homes so that the occupiers could take up residence there, to endure a horrendous life and then blame them for it... I'm sorry, but you think those refugees are committing gross human rights abuses?

Right..

Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist. Don't you think your criticism is a little one-sided?

Tell me, would you recognise the people who are occupying you?

You need to realise something. The leadership of Hamas and their demented beliefs, were born under occupation. You know the saying 'you reap what you sow'?

The more the population is collectively punished, the more Hamas and their ilk will be able to recruit in the present and future. Do you know why? Because desperate people will look at any desperate measure to escape the horror they are enduring. Hamas could be defeated if Israel were more humane. Alas, Hamas grows stronger. I wonder why that is..

With bombs and missiles. Being well armed doesn't automatically make you the offending party. Besides, remember that it was the armies of 5 Arab nations against Israel that made this happen. That would cause anyone to arm themselves.

Fighting an occupying force that has been there for how long now.. is their justification for arming themselves. When you live under occupation, you will try to fight against that occupation. You know.. fight for your rights to survive and be free without fear of persecution because of your religion or race?

Remember how I said shooting a dart at a tank?

They shoot with a dart, Israel responds with a mega bomb that flattens a block...

Israel is the offending party because of collective punishment and because they are using collective punishment as the occupying force. They are wilfully ignoring their obligations under the Geneva Convention as the occupying force. That is kind of what makes them the offending party. I don't consider Hamas to be angels either. But Israel's leadership has ensured that they are just as bad.

They have lived in my home, plenty of them.

So you gave them your home? Or did they live there for a while and move on? Oh wait, that's right. Your land and home ownership is guarranteed and no one can force you from your home. My, aren't you priviliged?

 

[spidergoat]

Hamas is the elected administration of Gaza. They are the ones responsible for the terrorism, so the Gaza itself must be temporarily controlled. Israel does go after individuals, but it is the entire society that is providing them with the base needed to accomplish their goal of destroying Israel. They will teach their children to do this whether or not Israel responds. How angry would you be if missiles rained down on your child's school?
Is it reasonable to sacrifice your children because you are nostalgic for some real estate? You say Gaza isn't Israel - yet. This is why Israel fights, because the Palestinians want to conquer it. Yes, I am just as angry at the Israeli right-wing, especially the religious nuts called "settlers".

"They are wilfully ignoring their obligations under the Geneva Convention as the occupying force." Prove it. They do not occupy or administrate Gaza. They are simply imposing a blockade on a group that is a threat to the lives of Israelis because they have been left with no other option.

My home ownership is not guaranteed, it is still subject to the forces of international conflict, as well as the principle of eminent domain. It's not worth killing anyone over.

 

[pjdude1219]

Jews are culturally distinct from Europeans, hence their persecution over the centuries.

Maybe at first but culturally jews are kind of european. they no longer have any of the major hallmarks of a asian or african culture.

 

[pjdude1219]

It's not Israel's obligation to grant them any rights, except those under the Geneva Conventions.

it is their obligation to quit denying them rights like self determination in their own fucking lands.

Gaza isn't Israel.

than explain how its distinct and sovriegn from it.

Israel just wants the terrorism to stop.

no they don't. than they lose their excuse to steal land.

Yes, I'm bigoted against those people that elected Hamas. What's wrong with that?

No your just a bigot against palestinians because they want their land back and against all muslims and arabs.