My problem....

W

wsionynw

Master Queef
Valued Senior Member
As an atheist (although I seldom use the word to describe myself as people look at you like you're a Satanist), my problem with religion is that it is often used to control the actions and laws of human society. What justification is there for this? The laws of man are meaningless, because according to the religious amongst us God makes the laws! Really? If there is a God, then how can any human possibly claim to know what God wants, or thinks, or feels? Please don't insult me with nonesense about prophets and scriptures, I could claim to have heard the word of God and would I have proof enough to convince anybody?
I'm reminded of the recent comments from the Vatican in relation to the use of condoms. At first the church was firmly against contraception, but now in the face of public outrage they have backed down only so far as to say it's ok for a married couple to use condoms if one of them has HIV. Perhaps in a few more years the Vatican will back down even further, taking yet another step to justify it's own existence. Religion evolves to ensure it's own survival, as has been written. I would say that religion makes it up as it goes along.
 
The laws of man arent meaningless accrding to the bible. the bible says that all govements are from god so we should obey there laws unless the laws conflict with gods commandments. i can tell that you havent read much scripture. Plus when you throw out the possibility of revalation you throw out the religon. im not religous but i have read the bible enough to know this..
 
wsionynw said:
my problem with religion is that it is often used to control the actions and laws of human society.
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No one likes authority, but that doesn't mean we don't need it.

What justification is there for this?
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Tradition - the wisdom of our ancestors.

If there is a God, then how can any human possibly claim to know what God wants, or thinks, or feels?
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How is that problem easier than the problem of knowing what humanity wants, thinks, or feels?

I could claim to have heard the word of God and would I have proof enough to convince anybody?
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You can try. Some people have succeeded, most have failed.

I'm reminded of the recent comments from the Vatican in relation to the use of condoms.
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There have been no recent comments from the Vatican in relation to the use of condoms. You are probably talking about the position taken by a few clerics; that is not the position of the Vatican. Much as you would hate to admit, the Catholic Church is quite democratic and tolerant of disssent amongts its members.

Perhaps in a few more years the Vatican will back down even further, taking yet another step to justify it's own existence. Religion evolves to ensure it's own survival
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The more the Church is criticized, the more it seems its critics are wrong. Just as you are criticizing it for evolving, others criticize it for being too conservative. If the Vatican condemns condoms, people charge it for being too antiquated. If the Vatican approves condomns, people charge it for being too modern. It's obvious to me that some people just hate the Church, period.

The Church itself is not surprised some people hate it. Its own founder was tried and condemned for preaching about love, forgiveness, and hope. Why should His followers have a different fate?
 
spiritual_spy said:
The laws of man arent meaningless accrding to the bible. the bible says that all govements are from god so we should obey there laws unless the laws conflict with gods commandments. i can tell that you havent read much scripture. Plus when you throw out the possibility of revalation you throw out the religon. im not religous but i have read the bible enough to know this..
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i hate to disagree with you but one does not have to follow a law that is not against moral law like speeding on an abandoned road safely but if you get caught you have to pay the fine rendert to caesar and to god, in either case it is whenever they catch you that you are guilty of breaking their laws but as god knows all he always catches you caesar does not always catch you so breaking penial laws is morally acaptable as long as you are sure they are not also moral laws, though it is safer to lean on the side of obidence
 
wsionynw said:
I'm reminded of the recent comments from the Vatican in relation to the use of condoms. At first the church was firmly against contraception, but now in the face of public outrage they have backed down only so far as to say it's ok for a married couple to use condoms if one of them has HIV. Perhaps in a few more years the Vatican will back down even further, taking yet another step to justify it's own existence. Religion evolves to ensure it's own survival, as has been written. I would say that religion makes it up as it goes along.
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catholic dogma states that Tradition(handed down from the apostles) will never change, tradition(local custums) will.
 
my problem with religion is that it is often used to control the actions and laws of human society
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Of course, that is it's purpose. The whole God part is an authority figure that can't be overthrown, therefore giving the laws weight in the minds of believers. Also, he superficially resembles the kings that supposedly lead by proxy.
 
spidergoat said:
Of course, that is it's purpose. The whole God part is an authority figure that can't be overthrown, therefore giving the laws weight in the minds of believers. Also, he superficially resembles the kings that supposedly lead by proxy.
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that's what people use it for that don't mean at its inception that was what is was ment to do at its core religoin is about binging the world to the best it can be
 
Sure, popular ideas often get annexed by the powerful and greedy to suit their purposes. If not for the Roman adoption of Christianity, it would have been a minor and temporary phenomenon.
 
Little_Birdie said:
that's what people use it for that don't mean at its inception that was what is was ment to do at its core religoin is about binging the world to the best it can be
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Right. By forcing everyone to unquestioningly accept the rule of one imaginary being. You're either in the club or you're out (i.e. you burn in hell). Thanks for nothing. Ruminant morons.
 
superluminal said:
Right. By forcing everyone to unquestioningly accept the rule of one imaginary being. You're either in the club or you're out (i.e. you burn in hell). Thanks for nothing. Ruminant morons.
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Obviously you havn't researched all religions on that claim...
 
wsionynw said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBiW3BZbw_M&search=banana
I'm sure yuo've all seen this before! Obviousy I'd hate to tar everyone that believes in God with the same brush, but it's clear that with people like THIS in the world it's always going to make religions harder to swallow (couldn't help the pun, sorry).
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The bannana exists, therefore god made it. Furthermore, the banana shows how smart god is.

WTF?
 
spidergoat said:
Sure, popular ideas often get annexed by the powerful and greedy to suit their purposes. If not for the Roman adoption of Christianity, it would have been a minor and temporary phenomenon.
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Lets see...some one needs to go back and study history. Christianity had spread around much of
the ancient world long before ROME was officially Christian. The Roman empire adopted
Christianity because a preponderance of the population in many partsof the empire had converted, and it was politically
expedient change the state religion from pagen to Christian.

You have the cart before the horse, when you say Christianity is only around because Rome
adopted it.
 
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